Is Happiness Conditional Or Unconditional?

[Vibes]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

People cannot even being to comprehend what horrors reality has in store for you.

What's up with this wanting to spread your suffering with others thing? I thought you were above that.

Edited 9 hours ago by Vibes

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Vibes It’s just being realistic, tbh. That statement holds a lot of truth, and if you haven’t experienced it, that’s a good thing - it means you’ve been relatively fortunate in life so far. 

[Vibes]

@Xonas Pitfall No, I see it as resentment for his unfortunate health problems.

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Vibes You think so? I see it more as trying to adopt a realistic perspective. It’s great to be optimistic, but if you believe everything is sunshine and rainbows all the time, you’ll likely be less careful and observant of the challenges and difficulties that could arise. This line of work often attracts very "Green stage-esque" people who embrace a hippie-like, somewhat delusional mindset—believing that unconditional happiness is possible 24/7 through peace, love, and plants. So, counterbalancing that with some practical caution, I’d say, is important. Leo is probably coming to his own realizations about being grateful and present during moments of genuine happiness and health and possibly wants to share that insight... but who knows. Either way, the perspective still holds!

[gettoefl]

21 minutes ago, Vibes said:

What's up with this wanting to spread your suffering with others thing? I thought you were above that.

Reality has tons of suffering provided you want to keep on staying. It's trying to make you choose good. Good is an acrostic for get out of dodge. 

[cjoseph90]

17 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Not only is it conditional. But we are all just a mere slaves to our emotions. That's what makes the process of trying to get happy so difficult. "Emotional mastery" can only get you so far

This is very true, I couldnt agree more that we are slaves to our emotions.

[Ulax]

46 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

@Vibes You think so? I see it more as trying to adopt a realistic perspective. It’s great to be optimistic, but if you believe everything is sunshine and rainbows all the time, you’ll likely be less careful and observant of the challenges and difficulties that could arise. This line of work often attracts very "Green stage-esque" people who embrace a hippie-like, somewhat delusional mindset—believing that unconditional happiness is possible 24/7 through peace, love, and plants. So, counterbalancing that with some practical caution, I’d say, is important. Leo is probably coming to his own realizations about being grateful and present during moments of genuine happiness and health and possibly wants to share that insight... but who knows. Either way, the perspective still holds!

I think the argument was more that through hardcore meditation you could get to a state of unconditional happiness. Not just via that green ideal you talk of.

I see it as that which Leo moves away from.

Though I don’t understand why seeing as Leo admits himself he isn’t the greatest meditator, or at least did in one video.

But maybe he has just come to conclusion to suffering is just much more difficult to overcome than he previously thought. But I am just guessing.

I would like to think unconditional happiness is possible via meditation. But I don’t know. Obviously that Is just a preference rather than an argument. 

[RightHand]

48 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

@Vibes You think so? I see it more as trying to adopt a realistic perspective. It’s great to be optimistic, but if you believe everything is sunshine and rainbows all the time, you’ll likely be less careful and observant of the challenges and difficulties that could arise. This line of work often attracts very "Green stage-esque" people who embrace a hippie-like, somewhat delusional mindset—believing that unconditional happiness is possible 24/7 through peace, love, and plants. So, counterbalancing that with some practical caution, I’d say, is important. Leo is probably coming to his own realizations about being grateful and present during moments of genuine happiness and health and possibly wants to share that insight... but who knows. Either way, the perspective still holds!

I won't get seduced by the pluralist mafia! 

 

[integral]

We should have mandatory surgery to remove the part of the brain that experiences the stress response. 

Edited 5 hours ago by integral

[integral]

20 hours ago, Nito said:

After finally getting serious with meditiation and mastering my emotions recently I feel so amazing which makes me seriously unsure what is true... whether happiness is conditional or not.

If you have absolutely no health problems of any kind and have perfect biology then all your suffering is in your head and all you have to do is grow up. (which is a condition)

If I take you hostage and then skin you alive slowly over to next 30 Years I guarantee none of it is in your head and you will not live a second of happiness again. 

Edited 5 hours ago by integral

[Someone here]

24 minutes ago, integral said:

We should have mandatory surgery to remove the part of the brain that experiences the stress response. 

@integral not possible. I agree with Leo 

the world is a fucked up place and this isn't pessimism from my part. Just stating some fact.

 the default state of any living organism is basically tension and stress . You are naturally dying and decaying. That's the path of least resistance. Inertia. So you have to put on constant effort to go against this decaying process and survive. This expresses itself for example in the constant ever renewable biological needs (water...food... Rest). It kinda when you put it into perspective.. It shows you that life is indeed a worthless piece of shit. But it's not an option to quit the game. To be or to be. Is the choice. 

[charlie cho]

philosophically, happiness is supposed to unconditional

in practice, this is almost very difficult.

Thirdly, Buddhist, or the Buddha used to say the human body is so immeshed with impurities this 'happiness' is almost an impossibility

I agree. 

Not because human beings deserved to be stewed in hell. No, on the contrary.

Buddha or any enlightened man knows that man has sinned to create such impurities within himself, that the complexities of the hellish realities of human life has almost become Freudian. Only dreams begin to teach us the realities of our hellish desires and inner turmoil, we become so unaware of our minds we begin to rely on dreams to solve our problems. 

Hence the Buddha says to cleanse not just the mind, but the body. Our physical misbehaviors leads to heart paliptations, heart attacks, unnecessary strains of muscle. Without cleansing all this happiness is almost an impossibility. If you want help, you can message me, though I have some hints to solve all this, I don't have all the answers. 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Vibes said:

What's up with this wanting to spread your suffering with others thing? I thought you were above that.

If my words bother you, you should not be talking about unconditional anything.

Edited 2 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

2 hours ago, integral said:

We should have mandatory surgery to remove the part of the brain that experiences the stress response. 

That would be so silly.

You guys need to stop demonizing pain and suffering. Embrace that reality is made up of Yin and Yang and both are to be experienced in human life.

With the recognition that happiness is not unconditioned, study the conditions required for human happiness and work long and hard to achieve it. 

That being said, there is relative wiggle room and you can be less conditioned with your happiness. Just, don't expect it to be an absolute.

 

[Jannes]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

People cannot even being to comprehend what horrors reality has in store for you.

Whatever happiness you have, cherish it, because it can be gone in a flash.

I do not teach unconditional happiness any more because it is a fantasy.

How much potential would you still credit "sober spiritual practices" for increasing happiness? 

It would be very interesting to hear an updated view on all the spiritual practices you talked about before the psychedelics phase as you could see so much maturing in the psychedelics phase, it would be interesting to see a similar matured view on the sober practices now. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Jannes

[Thought Art]

@Jannes I know you are asking Leo this, but I think 95% of happiness comes from sober practices and holistic life building.

[integral]

@Thought Art 🤣 what you're saying is true. But in the foreseeable future there's no reason we shouldn't be developing technology to redesign the brain and create instant enlightenment. 

Psychedelics is one tool, we need more tools.

[gengar]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

People cannot even being to comprehend what horrors reality has in store for you.

Whatever happiness you have, cherish it, because it can be gone in a flash.

I do not teach unconditional happiness any more because it is a fantasy.

If you recognize the seriousness of reality and immortal consciousness, why don't you respond to my criticism of the fact that you deem the denial of oneness to be mere stupidity, or at least state it like this?

"My point is precisely this radical implication of oneness. You state here that oneness is some simple truth that is easy to recognize, when you have stated the opposite in other comments and in your video titled "radical implications of oneness". 

How are you expecting people to grok this extremely radical truth of oneness?

Christians veil the truth just like atheists do, not only because of stupidity, but in my view moreso because oneness is so fucking radical making its so emotionally hard to grok, that intellectuelly holding the position becomes extremely hard to do. It means embracing everything you hate. You know this so I don't see why you ascribe the denial of oneness to pure stupidity. To accept oneness you basically have to accept going to the depths of hell.

I have had mushroom trips of occult consciousness where oneness became revealed and I has visions of baphomet, the diety of "as above, so below". It felt like pure insanity yet more true than anything else. I had thoughts of killing myself to release myself from limitations since nothing  matters anyway and there is no morality since all is one. So if the denial of oneness is stupidity, and its acceptance insanity, it becomes a dichotomy between stupidity and insanity. Do you really expect Christians to accept this? The denial of oneness goes extremely deep, it is basically what keeps you alive on this planet. So that is my criticism of your video, you gloss over that acceptance like its some easy thing to do when in fact its the hardest, and its not just stupidity, but pure survival keeping humans in denial.

The denial of oneness is what keeps society from collapsing and everybody dying. So you have to admit that the world runs on the bedrock of lower perspectives like Christianity (even the morality of most atheists is basically a remnant of Christian morality) , and the only reason that you are even able to access higher perspectives, is because you live in a non-collapsed society.

So your higher perspectives are actually supported by the existence of lower perspectives. 

If everybody became enlightened in an instant, society would collapse in an instant and there would be more death, killing and despair than ever before. Which is why it's tautological for that to happen"

_______________________________________

The reasons Christians hold to their perspective is precisely because they recognize the horrors that reality holds for them. 

If reality is full of horrors and death is not the end, what should be our position to that according to you? Are we bound to experience the totality? Is there any use in bettering our karma to experience less horrors, in this life and the next? Give your position to us straight. With all due respect I think you owe it to your audience.

[UnbornTao]

Start with what happiness is as it might not be what we as a culture have in mind.

If it comes from circumstances, then how come not everyone who meet such conditions, whatever they are, are happy? 

Not to make "happiness" seem esoteric, but how come Ramana was said to spend his time in a blissful state living in a cave while insects bit his legs? 

Edited 5 minutes ago by UnbornTao

[Leo Gura]

52 minutes ago, gengar said:

The reasons Christians hold to their perspective is precisely because they recognize the horrors that reality holds for them. 

They hold dogma and delusion.

Their view is not how God works.

Quote

If reality is full of horrors and death is not the end, what should be our position to that according to you?

The position is to do serious inquiry and question everything until you jailbreak your mind from all human things and realize God.

Quote

Are we bound to experience the totality? Is there any use in bettering our karma to experience less horrors, in this life and the next? Give your position to us straight. With all due respect I think you owe it to your audience.

In practical terms, live your life wisely to minimize self-inflicted suffering from dumb decisions, such as smoking, drinking, texting while driving, swimming with crocodiles, etc.

Nothing about my work changes the common sense notion of living in a way that minimizes harm to yourself and others. Whether God exists or not doesn't change this. You must live very carefully either way.

For you to be happy in life you must design your life around your top values. If your top values are being violated you will never be happy.

Edited 16 minutes ago by Leo Gura