The Ontology of Pain and Human Freedom

[Blood is Life]

If life is not a struggle with God, then such a life will never truly understand what it means to be human. While this may seem an abrupt way of putting things, such bluntness often delivers a stronger impact than a more careful or measured approach. The well-oiled path of success may lead to many discoveries, but while we admire those who tread it, we often find that it is not the person we admire but rather their talent and the fruits it brings into the world. The person behind the talent, however, remains a much more complex matter.

What I admire is the radical sacrifice that finds redemption only in the understanding of what I call “holistic misery.” Each individual experience of misery reflects a complete and unified question of one’s existence. Stub your toe and the pain is immediate and localized, yet beyond this trivial moment lies the deeper haunting question of suffering itself. What is the ontology of pain What does it mean to suffer and why does it arise in the way it does This question disrupts the ordinary assumptions of existence, forcing one to confront life beyond its comfortable certainties.

This is the true meaning of the misery brought on by the Edenic apple of knowledge. Adam and Eve did not merely learn disobedience or commit an “original sin.” These simplistic interpretations miss the profound metaphysical significance of the narrative. What they learned was to put questions where there had once been assumptions. They learned to interrogate existence itself, a radical act instigated by God’s prohibition. God’s injunction against the tree of knowledge was not merely a command but the seed of the question itself, an invitation to go beyond naïve acceptance and confront the nature of freedom, suffering and existence.

Suffering forces the individual to recognize this primordial indeterminacy. It insinuates itself into the spaces between complacency and affirmation, making it impossible to ignore. As Emily Dickinson’s poem “I Heard a Fly Buzz” so powerfully illustrates, suffering does not merely inflict pain but demands attention to its existential roots. It compels one to address not just the immediate pain but the broader meta-suffering that arises when one asks why suffering exists at all.

In this confrontation with suffering, religion takes its first steps, not in the form of naïve or institutional dogma but as a deeply personal response to the ultimate questions of existence. God, in this sense, is not the simplified deity of conventional religious thought but rather the manifestation of the final questions that lie inconspicuously within our lives. These questions remain in plain sight, yet they are rarely acknowledged until suffering forces us to notice them.

 

[UnbornTao]

What's pain then, for real?

I'd distinguish between pain and suffering, too. 

[Blood is Life]

On 2025-01-14 at 11:38 AM, UnbornTao said:

What's pain then, for real?

I'd distinguish between pain and suffering, too. 

Pain is the body’s way of telling us something is wrong, physical or emotional. It’s immediate and raw, but what we make of it, how it shapes us, that’s where suffering begins.

 

[Buck Edwards]

God is pure consciousness. Existential misery is a certainty. However God is not a figment of imagination as a cure to uncertainties in life. God is simply - be. 

[Ishanga]

Pain and Suffering will never lead Anyone to a Humans highest Potentials, call it God, Absolute, Enlightenment, Realization or whatever, pain/suffering will only keep You in Survival mode, or bring You to the belief that someone or something else is higher up than You and what is within You, that will only lead to more Suffering as leading a life of untruth can only do that!

[Breakingthewall]

@Blood is Life great. Very profound post and very true. Suffering deepens the nature of existence, opens a new dimension.

53 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Pain and Suffering will never lead Anyone to a Humans highest Potentials, call it God, Absolute, Enlightenment, Realization or whatever, pain/suffering will only keep You in Survival mode, or bring You to the belief that someone or something else is higher up than You and what is within You, that will only lead to more Suffering as leading a life of untruth can only do that!

wrong, real suffering opens your heart. The nature of existence is in your heart and suffering is the crucible that opens it. Blessed are those who suffer, for they shall see God. That's how it works.

Edited Friday at 11:46 PM by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

30 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Blood is Life great. Very profound post and very true. Suffering deepens the nature of existence, opens a new dimension.

wrong, real suffering opens your heart. The nature of existence is in your heart and suffering is the crucible that opens it. Blessed are those who suffer, for they shall see God. That's how it works.

wrong, only a rare few can use Suffering as a way to Realization, otherwise the majority, vast majority like 99% fail at Realization via the Suffering route and will die tragically, tragic in the fact that their potential was never realized in anyway...

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Ishanga said:

wrong, only a rare few can use Suffering as a way to Realization, otherwise the majority, vast majority like 99% fail at Realization via the Suffering route and will die tragically, tragic in the fact that their potential was never realized in anyway...

Suffering is a must 100% . If I don't remember bad, mentioning sadhguru because you respect him, he said that he had a lot of suffering in past lifes. Human life entails a lot of suffering. Think that total realization of the nature of existence is very rare, most of us are in the path but no one here has arrived 

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Suffering is a must 100% . If I don't remember bad, mentioning sadhguru because you respect him, he said that he had a lot of suffering in past lifes. Human life entails a lot of suffering. Think that total realization of the nature of existence is very rare, most of us are in the path but no one here has arrived 

LIke I said a RARE FEW, there are some but the majority will fail at Realization or Tapping into their Potential via the Suffering Route.  Pain will always exist in life, losses, disappointments, deaths, destructions, but Suffering it is a choice, some cannot avoid the suffering as the pain is too great but this is not the majority, if it was nothing would get done!

I for one do not want to Suffer at all, I've had enough Suffering for this lifetime, Bliss is the path for Me, at the least Peace, get Peaceful before any thoughts on Enlightenment, Realization or tapping into any form of Human Potential, if that is not there as One's foundation, then like I said nothing significant (Potential being exposed) will happen!!!

[Blood is Life]

9 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

God is pure consciousness. Existential misery is a certainty. However God is not a figment of imagination as a cure to uncertainties in life. God is simply - be. 

I agree that God is not merely a remedy for life’s uncertainties. However, to say that God ‘simply is’ risks overlooking the dynamic way we encounter God through questions, suffering, and the search for meaning. For me, it’s not about solving misery but about understanding it and meeting God within it.

 

[Blood is Life]

9 hours ago, Ishanga said:

Pain and Suffering will never lead Anyone to a Humans highest Potentials, call it God, Absolute, Enlightenment, Realization or whatever, pain/suffering will only keep You in Survival mode, or bring You to the belief that someone or something else is higher up than You and what is within You, that will only lead to more Suffering as leading a life of untruth can only do that!

I see where you’re coming from, and I agree that living in constant pain or suffering doesn’t help us reach our highest potential. But I believe that pain, when acknowledged and understood, can be a doorway to deeper self-awareness and transformation. It’s not about staying in survival mode, but about confronting the deeper truths within us, even if they arise through suffering. Sometimes, it’s through these struggles that we are forced to question, grow, and eventually transcend our limitations.

 

[Blood is Life]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Blood is Life great. Very profound post and very true. Suffering deepens the nature of existence, opens a new dimension.

Thank you, I’m glad you found it meaningful. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

11 hours ago, Ishanga said:

LIke I said a RARE FEW, there are some but the majority will fail at Realization or Tapping into their Potential via the Suffering Route

Let's assume the theory of reincarnation and karma, if that's okay with you. This means that after many cycles a structure of reality is created and grows in complexity and deepens in consciousness. An essential part of this process is suffering, which opens a dimension of depth that makes possible the ultimate realization, which a sheep or a tuna could not have.

This does not mean that you or I have to seek suffering, but that it occurs as a crucible that expands the dimension of consciousness of a specific structure again and again, until it is ready to ascend to another level. If this has not happened, it does not matter what is done, because complete opening will be impossible. It does not depend on the will of the individual, but it occurs at the moment when the structure is mature, it is a natural cyclical process of reality that evolves by its own inertia.

Suffering is perceived as bad, none of us want to be prisoners in a jail in congo, but it is necessary in the order of the cycles of reality.

Edited Saturday at 11:48 AM by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

I need pain since if it's all pleasure I keep on as apparent god of the universe merrily with nobody to interject otherwise.

Don't stop me now, I'm having such a good time. 🎵

Pain is the necessary ingredient to realize I'm not god.

Pain is the sign I have gone wrong since god is necessarily pain free - else he wouldn't be much of a god.

Pain will be quickly investigated to see 1. it's an illusion and better yet 2. the one feeling it is an illusion.

Identification is thereby corrected and awakening to me as one true god arises.

Edited Saturday at 06:59 PM by gettoefl

[Blood is Life]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

I need pain since if it's all pleasure I keep on as apparent god of the universe merrily with nobody to interject otherwise.

Don't stop me now, I'm having such a good time. 🎵

Pain is the necessary ingredient to realize I'm not god.

Pain is the sign I have gone wrong since god is necessarily pain free - else he wouldn't be much of a god.

Pain will be quickly investigated to see 1. it's an illusion and better yet 2. the one feeling it is an illusion.

Identification is thereby corrected and awakening to me as one true god arises.

Interesting perspective. I see pain less as something that proves we’ve gone ‘wrong’ and more as something that pushes us to look deeper. Maybe it’s not just an illusion to escape but something that can teach us and guide us beyond how we currently see ourselves.

 

[Breakingthewall]

The metaphor of Christ crucified is perfect. Christ gives himself up to martyrdom to save humanity from its sins. This means that human suffering breaks the barrier of the animal, which we call sin. The animal is the pure instinct of wild survival, which only looks outward. With suffering the animal looks inward and opens its heart; it is no longer an animal, it is divinity incarnate, it is open to another dimension, and in this dimension suffering is meaningless because it's not necessary anymore 

Edited Saturday at 10:12 PM by Breakingthewall

[Blood is Life]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The metaphor of Christ crucified is perfect. Christ gives himself up to martyrdom to save humanity from its sins. This means that human suffering breaks the barrier of the animal, which we call sin. The animal is the pure instinct of wild survival, which only looks outward. With suffering the animal looks inward and opens its heart; it is no longer an animal, it is divinity incarnate, it is open to another dimension, and in this dimension suffering is meaningless because it's not necessary anymore 

Beautifully expressed. I agree that suffering can push us inward, helping us break away from pure instinct and open up to something greater. Maybe it’s through suffering that we reach a point where it’s no longer needed.