Critique My Idea For A Eugenic State

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Clarence said:

but it would broadly affect one's life and not necessarily prevent socialization or talking to woman.

Did I get this wrong?

Yes

[Clarence]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes

Ok, but I still don't get it. I've dated people and made both male and female friends despite being blackpilled (according to this definition). This lingering feeling of depression is obviously hard to live with and has an affect on my life, but it doesn't fully prevent socialization.

Actually, meeting people with a different outlook on the world has been highly helpful to me. It at least helped me recognize that there were other ways to live.

I guess it can reduce socialization, but not always, as both are not incompatible. I'm currently very satisfied with the friends I have and am not interested in romantic relationships at the moment. But when I desired to date, I did.

Edited Sunday at 09:17 AM by Clarence

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Pickup is not something women notice. Pickup is just being social. And all women respond well to guys who are socially adept. Women do not logically select who they date.

There is not a special class of woman who is immune to charm, charisma, and social skills.

It's just what when you hear pickup being discussed on this forum it raises your alarm bells. But in the real-world it is not noticed nor cared about by women because they are not having logical discussions about who they will sleep with.

If you logically ask a woman, Would you date a pickup guy?, all of them will tell you NO! But then in practice none of that matters because that is not how things work.

It's like if I asked someone, Would you eat an animal that I tortured? Everyone would say NO! But then in practice they go and eat whatever is served to them when they are hungry and don't even bother to ask.

Damn this is so well put.

[Breakingthewall]

The ability to reproduce depends on how socially competent you are and this depends on your social self-esteem, your self-perception as an individual who relates, your emotional health, and this is largely determined by the relationship you have with your parents, and the relationship you have with your parents depends on the self-image and self-awareness that your parents have of themselves, therefore it is something hereditary. If your parents are dysfunctional, neurotic or narcissistic you will have it more difficult.

 

Regarding toxic guys who get a lot of sex, this does not mean that they are going to reproduce, sex does not equal reproduction today, most will not. Those who reproduce are those who find a suitable and compatible partner and are willing to make the commitment and emotional responsibility. 

This is different in more rigid societies where reproduction is considered a social success and failure to achieve it is shameful. In these cases, it is forced because all parties are willing and need to achieve this goal to avoid shame, so evolution stops. In Western society there is evolution, and this evolution involves a decrease in the number of individuals but an increase in emotional quality.

During the 20th century, evolution stopped because most people who had offspring did so because they considered it obligatory, they were looking for a socially acceptable partner, which in a normative society is the majority of people and that's it. Today, real compatibility is sought, and this is more difficult by many orders of magnitude. The reproductive drive exists and is strong, but social pressure is less, so natural selection occurs.

Edited Sunday at 09:41 AM by Breakingthewall

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

@Emerald I think you might be onto something with that hypothesis. Definitely something to take into consideration.

I'd wager that this applies to many women as well, to a certain degree, who fail to fit into this sort of wholesome monogamous lifestyle and select for toxic traits, a lot of them will probably not reproduce as well, ever

[RendHeaven]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The Devil will come at you with a pair of perfect titties.

I'm cooked.

[Basman]

Initiative is probably the most important factor for a man to get laid from my experience and research. In our modern environment, a lack of initiative is the main reason men aren't getting laid. You strictly speaking don't have to develop yourself socially now days so that becomes the path of least resistance, at least if you're the introverted type.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Clarence said:

I've dated people and made both male and female friends despite being blackpilled (according to this definition).

Your definition of blackpilled is too generic. Blackpill is not just depression, it's an ideology which says that there is no point of even trying to get women because one is so genetically inferior that it's hopeless, and to even try is to play into normie delusions and to be a traitor to the Blackpill community.

You are not blackpilled.

Edited Sunday at 03:13 PM by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Pickup is not something women notice. Pickup is just being social. And all women respond well to guys who are socially adept. Women do not logically select who they date.

There is not a special class of woman who is immune to charm, charisma, and social skills.

It's just that when you hear pickup being discussed on this forum it raises your alarm bells. But in the real-world it is not noticed nor cared about by women because they are not having logical discussions about who they will sleep with.

If you logically ask a woman, Would you date a pickup guy?, all of them will tell you NO! But then in practice none of that matters because that is not how things work.

It's like if I asked someone, Would you eat an animal that I tortured? Everyone would say NO! But then in practice they go and eat whatever is served to them when they are hungry and don't even bother to ask.

Keep in mind, I am Vegan. So using the "Would you eat an animal that I tortured?" example to illustrate your point doesn't work because I genuinely would not as I have already become aware of that. 

I'm very conscious that the little packages of meat come from animal torture. And I know quite a lot of people who are also conscious of this and adjust their behaviors thusly.

That said, only 1% of people are Vegan. But I'm positive that at least 25% of women are attuned and sensitized to this kind of fuckery.... because it's EVERYWHERE!

And I can spot a guy who's into Red Pill ideologies from a mile away because of how they think and behave. It's really obvious. And they have a very specific vibe. 

So my point is not really about pick-up per se... but rather guys with Red Pillish Incelish attitudes more generally. Though pick-up guys also exude some similar vibes.

You can just sense intuitively when guys have these regressive attitudes. And there are ALWAYS tells... even subtle gestures and facial expressions give them away.

Give me 2 minutes with a guy and I can tell you the ideologies he's operating off of. Same thing with women too. People are pretty easy to read.

It doesn't mean that I'm immune to charm.

But if it takes me 2 minutes to clock a guy... and 2 weeks to be properly charmed to where I start to develop feelings... then it's easy to dodge that bullet.

You just avoid interacting with them.

So, a woman who's aware of these patterns will notice these things from the jump and may just opt to avoid guys that give off those vibes or show tells that they have these ideas.

My main point is that women who are open to being picked up might not be as aware of these problematic perspectives.

You'd have to be living under a rock now-a-days to not know that a guy who's cold approaching you in the grocery store is probably operating off of some "get good with women" playbook.

And even that gives a hint that he might be into problematic ideologies... as half or more of men are.

[yetineti]

@Emerald

Do you think there’s a chance that being so quick to read and dismiss men might actually mirror the same kind of judging and categorizing you’re frustrated with?

Like, isn’t it kind of funny how focusing so much on spotting these vibes could feel like the flip side of what you’re calling out?

Could it end up being two sides of the same coin—both jumping to conclusions and making assumptions about people without really getting to know them?

You seem to talk about men a lot. Are you in a relationship? Have you maybe had trauma with bad men?

 

 

Edited Sunday at 05:06 PM by yetineti

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

@Emerald I think you might be onto something with that hypothesis. Definitely something to take into consideration.

I'd wager that this applies to many women as well, to a certain degree, who fail to fit into this sort of wholesome monogamous lifestyle and select for toxic traits, a lot of them will probably not reproduce as well, ever

I would imagine so. If a woman (or man) is selecting for who will produce a roller coaster of emotions with anxiety, it's not a good platform to make a life from and raise children from.

If it's exciting past the first 3 months, something has gone terribly wrong with the relationship.

A healthy relationship is like a stable home base that you can rest in.

So, men and women who are looking mostly for excitement either don't tend to settle and become parents... by choice. And I think that's an okay choice to make for some people.

Or they end up having a child and creating a chaotic home environment for the child to grow up in because the parents want to maintain the emotional roller coaster.

And that's not optimal from a survival and reproduction standpoint... even if the "toxic pick-up guys" might have 5 children with 5 different women. That isn't an evolutionary winning strategy... because it creates more trauma, drama, and issues... and detracts from our collective survival imperatives. 

So, if a woman is selecting for toxic pick-up guys who are sleeping with 3 women a week, then that's not a very good strategy if her desire is to have a settled committed relationship... and it's especially not a very good strategy if she wants children.

If you want to have what the relationship dynamic that most women want, you must consciously select for things like stability, compatibility, maturity, loyalty, honesty, friendship capacity, etc.

Otherwise, your life will be needlessly full of drama.

And it seems to me that half or more of women are pretty good at selecting for this.

But probably 30-40% of women are more drawn to the ups and downs and excitement of the new partner... and feeling off balance. And trying to squeeze blood from a stone trying to get the player guy to love her.

And I sense it has a lot to do with self-esteem issues.

But it also takes a learning curve to pick up on "player vibes". I was about 15 when I became conscious of them, and I felt naturally repelled by those vibes.

But when I was 13 or 14, I could have fallen for one because I wasn't yet attuned to those vibes.

But some may take a bit longer to become conscious of those vibes. And it might take some healing of self-esteem issues to start feeling an intuitive sense of disgust towards those vibes.

You have to really build your intuition and relationship with disgust to select a partner wisely.

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, yetineti said:

@Emerald

Do you think there’s a chance that being so quick to read and dismiss men might actually mirror the same kind of judging and categorizing you’re frustrated with?

Like, isn’t it kind of funny how focusing so much on spotting these vibes could feel like the flip side of what you’re calling out?

Could it end up being two sides of the same coin—both jumping to conclusions and making assumptions about people without really getting to know them?

To be clear, I do also understand that these patterns come from somewhere.

Most of the men that are caught up in these problem patterns are dealing with shame and disconnection... and looking to Red Pill or Incel communities to try to soothe those feelings.

And this is also where misogyny comes from.

And I find it quite easy to switch into a detached mode where I can find compassion and understanding towards individuals that are caught up in the dynamic,

But from a practical boundaries perspective, it just doesn't feel comfortable or safe being around guys who are in this pattern. And there's so much negative that's happening as a result of these collective patterns, there's also feelings of anger and powerlessness.

The guys in these ideologies have a tendency to project.... and because of their lack of attunement they tend to step all over ancient wounds that they're totally unaware of.

And they create real political and social problems for women because they are swept up in their ideologies.

So, it can feel really upsetting to be around guys who are in this energy because they do often accidentally tread on exposed nerves. And even if I don't show a reaction to it, it does repel me.

And because I have no sense of scarcity of belonging, I just opt to spend time around men and women who aren't caught up in these patterns.

And it's not a very active thing to sort these guys from my social circle. It's easy to avoid because it's easy to sense in someone's vibe.

But part of my sharing this is to share how a lot of women are likely responding to noticing these patterns. There's a lot of disgust that a lot of women feel about these ideological patterns or male behavior.

It just is what it is.

[Leo Gura]

51 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Keep in mind, I am Vegan.

I thought you would say that.

You can replace the animal example with sweatshop labor that goes into making your iPhone or shoes. You don't bother to ask when buying. When you see some sexy shoes you just buy it.

And you don't stop to ask what pesticides the veggies were grown with when you are hungry and your Mom serves your dinner.

Edited Sunday at 05:26 PM by Leo Gura

[LordFall]

@Juns I think you're extremely uneducated in AI and biotech and you should probably incorporate that into your future society models otherwise they're not really even worth discussing. 

 

Technology like Neuralink will drastically raise both IQ and all other manners of cognition so I don't understand why you wouldn't put that into your model. As well as capitalism will significantly change over the next 5 years with AI and especially autonomous agents so the idea to have facilities to raise human population to increase productivity is absurd. 

Edited Sunday at 05:32 PM by LordFall

[yetineti]

@Emerald you do not actually think I disagreed with you in that sense do you?

I am wondering why this seems to be such a frequent thing for you.

Do you really believe that more than half of men and whatever have this issue or do you think that that bubble you described that you put yourself in is causing you to exaggerate?

because you said more than half of men have this issue or similar.

 

Edited Sunday at 05:32 PM by yetineti

[Leo Gura]

It's actually funny, because women will do more research buying a new phone than in the men they sleep with.

There are women out there who are vegan and all organic, but will not think twice sleeping with an abusive narcissitic cheating psychopath fuckboy.

Edited Sunday at 05:39 PM by Leo Gura

[aurum]

44 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But I'm positive that at least 25% of women are attuned and sensitized to this kind of fuckery.... because it's EVERYWHERE!

25% is way too high.

Yes, if some socially inept guy finds some redpill / pick-up ideology and tries it, obviously women will not like it.

But they don't like it because he's socially inept, NOT because he secretly reads Rollo Tomassi. 

The whole appeal of these ideologies is that when they work, they help guys become less socially inept. They are rooted in a kind of ruthless pragmatism for getting laid. That's the main reason why these ideologies are popular.

So the problem with redpill / PUA is not that guys will be weeded out of the gene pool. It's that it actually works too well. And you actually end up compromising ethics, higher purpose, higher values, spiritual growth and perhaps healthier long-term relationships.

The idea that redpill / PUA is just for guys who can't get laid is mostly a leftist talking point to frame these guys as losers. Hit em' where it hurts. There's some truth to it, but it also badly misunderstands the situation.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Well, in any case - we can be certain of one thing - me wanting to get my stick wet and get suffocated by some boobies is not an ideology. By a large variety of them as well, ideally. That's what everyone secretly wants anyway and that's where all of these ideologies root from. I guess some men also want to be mature fathers? Best of luck to them anyways LOL think I'll pass personally

[Emerald]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I thought you would say that.

You can replace the animal example with sweatshop labor that goes into making your iPhone or shoes. You don't bother to ask when buying. When you see some sexy shoes you just buy it.

And you don't stop to ask what pesticides the veggies were grown with when you are hungry and your Mom serves your dinner.

You underestimate the degree of desire that I have to live my life with a sense of integrity with my own values... and how clear and present those inconsistencies are for me when I find myself unable to live up to that aspiration.

I do think about these things all the time. And I do my best to make purchases that sit well with my internal compass... though I do so imperfectly.

I've only had two iPhones in my life. I've been using the same one since 2018 or 2019 and I plan to keep it until it doesn't work anymore. The one I got before that, I got in 2011... and it crapped out on me in 2018, so I had to get a new one.

And I don't buy new clothes or shoes that very often. And when I do, half of the time I secondhand stores to get my clothes.

And I have a plan to sew all of my clothes from sustainably sourced material in the future, once I free up more time in my schedule.

But this diverges from the idea you're talking about. It's actually MORE "expensive" to not sort for these qualities. You pay for it later in peace of mind.

With the choice of male friends and partners... I am aware of these problem dynamics in the same way that I'm aware of all the issues. It's un-ignorable. The vibes don't lie.

And it's easy to avoid without even having to put much conscious thought into it.

Sometimes, I think you forget that women tend to be more sensitized to their own feelings and the feelings and vibes of others.

I suspect you'll say something like 'women don't select based on those things.'

But I know that I do.... right at the outset before any charm can happen. 

I know that (if I were single) I could fall in love over time with any guy I have chemistry with. And that doesn't preclude guys with misogynistic mindsets.

So, why would I choose to be around a guy who has those problematic mindsets, when it's super obvious from the jump?

You seem not to realize that there are so many subtle and over tells that are very obvious.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Emerald said:

So, why would I choose to be around a guy who has those problematic mindsets, when it's super obvious from the jump?

The dating world does not revolve around you. You are highly atypical. I was speaking of how the dating world works in general. This was a discussion of the gene pool, not your giga-woke lifestyle

Edited Sunday at 06:10 PM by Leo Gura