What keeps people going through adversity? Maintaining a strong mindset.

[Sugarcoat]

Something I think about sometimes is what keeps people going through adversity. And about maintaining a strong mindset.

This past year has been the worst in my life, and I have been having regular suicidal thoughts. Sometimes it’s so bad I’ll have suicidal thoughts from the morning I wake up until I go to sleep pretty much. 
 

I have like two sides of me. One that has some strength to keep pushing forward, and another that is “weak” , has no strength and wants to end my life. I don’t even wanna call it weak, I see it more as a reasonable reaction to the circumstances I’m in which I won’t go into here because it’s too weird even for this forum. 
 

Maintaining a “strong” mindset is so hard and I feel it doesn’t last long until it crumbles. What I mean by a strong mindset is a mindset that makes you  persevere through adversity. The opposite would be a mindset that wants to end your life instead of persevering through the adversity. I manage to maintain this “strong” mindset for a little while, then it always crumbles and I’m back in suicidal thinking. And so it goes, oscillating between the two.

I have wondered to myself what keeps other people going through adversity instead of ending it or at least thinking of ending it. I hear of cases worse than what I’m currently in wondering how those people keep going while I can barely stand my own situation right now. 
 

I have some theories.

1. Attachments. I feel peoples attachments could keep them going. For example being attached to their own family, and not wanting them to suffer if they die. This is something I lack, I’m not attached to anyone so no person is a reason for me to keep going.

2. Other attachments. I wonder if people have a kind of attachment to life itself. Or to themselves. They are attached to living, to being a person that is a part of the world, being a part of society. They have a “life” in the conventional sense, having friends, hobbies, partners, interests and they are attached to experiencing these things.

3. Good mental health. When people are dealing with physical pain but have good mental health then their good mental health is like a good foundation they stand on and the physical pain is something that bothers this good foundation but not enough so it crumbles and as long as they are able to maintain good mental health it’s a good enough foundation that gives them a reason to keep living. 

4. Having a reason to go through the pain. Sometimes great pain comes from something great. So for example if a woman is giving birth and is in great pain, her reason for keeping going is that she will have a wonderful baby out of it. Also if someone has had a surgery and are in great pain their reason is that they are in the healing process.

5. Attachment to self image. Im going to use David Goggins as an example here. He has this desire to be “the baddest motherfucker” that is a self image he desires to have, and having this self image entails he preserves through adversity and in his extreme case ever PUTS HIMSELF through adversity (the extreme training) . So he needs to do those things to maintain this self image he has created for himself that he is attached to. He is even afraid of not achieving this greatness, of being old and not having reached his full potential. His case is extreme, but I’ve seen some cases of people having this self image of being “tough” and being attached to this image so this keeping them persevering through adversity. I don’t have this as I don’t have a desire to be “tough”.

6. Knowing it’s temporary. This one is a bit difficult for me to swallow. Some things for me are too unbearable to go through even if they are only temporary. So I’m having a hard time seeing how someone could have this as a reason to keep persevering. Because when something is horrible time slows down and it feels like forever. That is a very strong mindset to have, this mindset of it only being temporary. 

In my case I feel the only reason I’m alive today is that my situation hasn’t become “bad enough”. I don’t have a reason to live, there is nothing that I love, there’s no self image I’m attached to , nor a person, or other things. I don’t know if I would wanna switch places with someone with a “stronger” mindset, or who has attachments, because I hear about these horrible things people go through and I know myself enough to know I would much rather die than go through that.  For example there’s this disease called trigeminal neuralgia which causes horrific pain regularly. Many people with that disease commit suicide apparently, and I know myself enough to know I’d be one of them. I don’t really understand those who persevere through that, but I can imagine that some of the reasons I highlighted above could explain it a little. 

Hope you enjoyed reading. Thanks

[NoSelfSelf]

I can only speak for myself,that what got me to the other side is that i refused to give up on myself,like i just cant give up on myself,that's the only thing that for some reason couldnt break. I wish i can say i have solution but thats what it takes...

 

[UnbornTao]

How you use your mind has consequences. You can just not do stuff, which is to say, you can recognize yourself as the source of the activity, and stop generating it as a result. You might assume that circumstances and the world somehow "cause" your internal state, but this is just not true. 

Meditation can help you start gaining some mastery over your mind. Catch yourself at the beginning of unfruitful thought dynamics without engaging in them, before they gain momentum.

What am I doing in this particular case?

Edited yesterday at 08:43 AM by UnbornTao

[zurew]

Its about the willingness and opennes to directly meet, acknowledge, and face what is and by that I mean - completely surrendering to whatever is occuring inside you and whatever is happening to you in  this particular moment, regardless how horrible or unbearable it seems or feels or how it suppose to be or how it suppose to feel.

You have the capacity to surrender (to meet inside you) all the negative emotions and thoughts without getting lost in them and without running away/ignoring them.

You check whatever thought or negative emotion is occuring and  you consciously give room for yourself and let yourself to fully feel it and experience it without any narrative.

 

One useful question that you can ask yourself at any given moment is "whats here?" and then you do an investigation from stratch without relying on any narrative, belief or memory. The answer is in the form of investigation and not about whats the right thing to say or what you suppose to or should say or how you suppose to feel like or think like, if you are spiritual person.

You do a true and honest and open investigation (you directly meet whats inside you at this particular moment, regardless how weird or negative, horrible , despicable it is) from scratch where you don't assume any particular identity or truth about yourself, you just go and check whats true.

Edited Thursday at 08:49 AM by zurew

[Salvijus]

To live is a natural desire of every living organism. By the will of god it is so. And that will is your will aswell. But when we lose awareness or we suppress our deepest most natural desires/will, then we become "disconnected" from God and then we get funny ideas that wouldn't exist otherwise. 

Edited Thursday at 07:20 AM by Salvijus

[Sugarcoat]

15 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

I can only speak for myself,that what got me to the other side is that i refused to give up on myself,like i just cant give up on myself,that's the only thing that for some reason couldnt break. I wish i can say i have solution but thats what it takes...

 

Thats a good mindset to have🙏🏻Very strong. Especially if you’re more of an independent kind that isn’t attached to other people or things so you don’t have anything outside yourself to live for, like I feel I am . The thing is though a lot of time I feel like I’ve lost myself so it’s as if I don’t have myself even to live for. I’m not asking help with this post btw so I don’t expect any solution from others I know I’m the only one that can help myself and maybe some doctor. 

Edited Thursday at 01:51 PM by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

14 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

How you use your mind has consequences.  

You can just not do that, which is to say, you can recognize yourself as the source of the activity, and as a result stop doing it. We might assume that circumstances, or the "world", somehow "cause" our internal state but this is just not true; we're responsible for it.

Meditation can help you start gaining some mastery over your mind. Hopefully then, you are more able to easily focus your mind on what you want to create.

In short, although oversimplified, think functional, empowering things, and catch yourself at the very beginning of unfruitful thought dynamics and decide not to engage in them, so they don't gain momentum.  "Thanks for coming, next."

You could just question what "that" is about -- that activity -- attempting to grasp it at its root, and get free of it immediately. 

I feel some of my suffering comes from this disconnect I feel from myself. And that is beyond thoughts. It’s a state I’m in.

I have physical suffering too that I feel is beyond thoughts, it’s felt in the body. What I do recognize as thoughts is the anticipation of that physical suffering. That I probably have a role in stopping. Meditation could perhaps help. I’d have to do it for longer to notice a change.

[Sugarcoat]

6 hours ago, zurew said:

Its about the willingness and opennes to directly meet, acknowledge, and face what is and by that I mean - completely surrendering to whatever is occuring inside you and whatever is happening to you in  this particular moment, regardless how horrible or unbearable it seems or feels or how it suppose to be or how it suppose to feel.

You have the capacity to surrender (to meet inside you) all the negative emotions and thoughts without getting lost in them and without running away/ignoring them.

You check whatever thought or negative emotion is occuring and  you consciously give room for yourself and let yourself to fully feel it and experience it without any narrative.

 

One useful question that you can ask yourself at any given moment is "whats here?" and then you do an investigation from stratch without relying on any narrative, belief or memory. The answer is in the form of investigation and not about whats the right thing to say or what you suppose to or should say or how you suppose to feel like or think like, if you are spiritual person.

You do a true and honest and open investigation (you directly meet whats inside you at this particular moment, regardless how weird or negative, horrible , despicable it is) from scratch where you don't assume any particular identity or truth about yourself, you just go and check whats true.

That’s so difficult. To surrender and accept the bad things. But we have no other choice if we are going to keep going. Because sooner or later the suck stuff comes and we have to face it to overcome it. That’s where the strong mindset comes in to play. 

[Sugarcoat]

6 hours ago, Salvijus said:

To live is a natural desire of every living organism. By the will of god it is so. And that will is your will aswell. But when we lose awareness or we suppress our deepest most natural desires/will, then we become "disconnected" from God and then we get funny ideas that wouldn't exist otherwise. 

It’s the basic survival instinct. That’s why it’s so hard to kill yourself. Do you mean people suppress their desire to live?

[UnbornTao]

18 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I feel some of my suffering comes from this disconnect I feel from myself. And that is beyond thoughts. It’s a state I’m in.

I have physical suffering too that I feel is beyond thoughts, it’s felt in the body. What I do recognize as thoughts is the anticipation of that physical suffering. That I probably have a role in stopping. Meditation could perhaps help. I’d have to do it for longer to notice a change.

You're still stuck within the assumption that circumstances cause your state. By "thinking", it is not meant mere internal dialogue or passing thoughts. This kind of thinking underlies your experience and is based on profound and overlooked notions. 

You can't locate suffering in the body, so look into that. 

What am I doing with my mind such that my state is like this?

Edited yesterday at 08:55 AM by UnbornTao

[NoSelfSelf]

50 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Thats a good mindset to have🙏🏻Very strong. Especially if you’re more of an independent kind that isn’t attached to other people or things so you don’t have anything outside yourself to live for, like I feel I am . The thing is though a lot of time I feel like I’ve lost myself so it’s as if I don’t have myself even to live for. I’m not asking help with this post btw so I don’t expect any solution from others I know I’m the only one that can help myself and maybe some doctor. 

Too much enlightment work and too little life experience makes you not knowing who you are, i know how it is...

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

It’s the basic survival instinct. That’s why it’s so hard to kill yourself. Do you mean people suppress their desire to live? 

There is a driving force beyond the survival that is not concerned about survival but is concerned about exploration, expansion, passion, creativity and celebration. That's your true will, that's the will of god inside you. The fear of survival is egoic will, this voice of fear often causes us to deny our true will and we end up living not the life that we truly want, but the life that is considered safe by egoic fear based standards. If we deny our heart too much, inner conflict arises between what we truly want and what we chose to do. The degree of depression follows accordingly inevitably. In fact, the denial of your true will is the only way to feel down. 

 

Edited Thursday at 03:05 PM by Salvijus

[Sugarcoat]

25 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You're still stuck within this assumption (that you are at the effect of life and of circumstances), and are confusing things. What you find on the body is sensation, perhaps pain, but suffering is of your own making. Locate suffering on the body--you can't, because it is subjective.

The state itself is created by you. Do not consider thoughts and thinking as superficial internal dialogue or as passing thoughts; they are the taken-for-granted operating system for your experience.

 

I’m very natural. So my reaction to my situation is a very natural reaction imo. You differentiate between pain and suffering . I lump those two together, they’re the same, unless maybe you’ve become some extreme yogi and mastered mindfulness so that pain isn’t suffering anymore. Maybe that’s possible, but for the rest of us, pain is equal to suffering. 
 

I can locate suffering in the body when I feel it. 
 

I don’t consider myself to be the creator of my state. Doesn’t mean I can’t change it, but I didn’t come to this place from my own action. If I wrote about what I’m going through it would become more clear. But I’d be considered insane. 

So you consider thoughts to be more than passing thoughts and internal dialogue and imagery? That’s all I have that I consider thoughts. It used to be different in the past and I would have maybe what you call a “taken for granted operating system for your experience”. But all of that dissolved for me. So now thoughts from my experience are just those passing things.

34 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You have to delve into the "place" where you are at the center of the activity. This is tricky to do but it's already true. 

What am I doing with my mind such that my state is like this, whatever it is?

What do you mean by delve into the “place” where you are at the center of the activity? You mean a kind of self inquiry to try to locate yourself?

I see my state as prior to thoughts so there we disagree. But the last question you proposed is still valid. 

[Sugarcoat]

 

19 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

There is a driving force beyond the survival that is not concerned about survival but is concerned about exploration, expansion, passion, creativity and celebration. That's your true will, that's the will of god inside you. The fear of survival is egoic will, this voice of fear often causes us to deny our true will and we end up living not the life that we truly want, but the life that is considered safe by egoic fear based standards. If we deny our heart too much, inner conflict arises between what we truly want and what we chose to do. The degree of depression follows accordingly inevitably. 

 

So you consider we have this driving force for exploration etc? What do you mean “fear of survival” you mean the opposite right fear of death?

[Sugarcoat]

34 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Too much enlightment work and too little life experience makes you not knowing who you are, i know how it is...

That’s not what I’m going through at all. If I wrote what I’m going through I’d be considered literally INSANE

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

 

So you consider we have this driving force for exploration etc? What do you mean “fear of survival” you mean the opposite right fear of death?

Fear of death is not the problem, fear of life is the problem. Fear to say to life and to your heart 100% yes and live accordingly. 

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Salvijus said:

Fear of death is not the problem, fear of life is the problem. Fear to say to life and to your heart 100% yes and live accordingly. 

So fear to take the leap and go for what your heart desires? What if you have zero desire like me?😹😹😹 I just exist (kind of)

[NoSelfSelf]

18 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

That’s not what I’m going through at all. If I wrote what I’m going through I’d be considered literally INSANE

All im saying its multitude of things tangled in one,its never just one cause.

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, NoSelfSelf said:

All im saying its multitude of things tangled in one,its never just one cause.

Maybe I sound close minded or insane by saying this but in my case there’s only one cause… But I get your point

[NoSelfSelf]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

Maybe I sound close minded or insane by saying this but in my case there’s only one cause… But I get your point

Im just talking i have no business telling you about your experience..