Shaming non-vegans is not right.

[Basman]

10 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

I am willing to bet you a million dollars that vegans on average care way more about the environment and ecology than your average person.

Also the example of the guy you are giving is not really fair. You can always find some ultra radical nutjob in every movement. Personally, this is the first time I am hearing about euthanising predators. Most vegans wouldn't support something like this.

If I find you a case where gay couple adopted and raped a child, will that be a good argument to saying that all gays are pedophiles?

A cool thing about veganism is that its not just a mental masturbation philosophy. You can start act on it, directly, at this very moment, by refusing to consume animal products.

It is that simple. So I am not sure what you mean by "flawed execution". It is very straightforward in that you can just focus on yourself and do what you consider to be the right thing.

And then every person can decide for themselves how much activism they want to participate in and what kind.

You don't need to wait until every person on earth shares your worldview. It's not like vegans are trying to overthrow tge government or something.

Again, the problem with you using those kinds of examples as a critique of veganism is that those are just random nutcases. 99% of vegans have nothing to do with that kind of activism.

And also note that in this case sure, those activists would cause some harm and chaos. And it is an irresponsible and not very wise thing to do.

But when you put it into the perspective of how much harm to individual animals and the environment animal farming causes literally every single day, it just vanishes in comparison.

This is just blatantly false. Its vegans who advocate for all animals, including humans to have the same basic rights. You've said this yourself.

Its vegans who care about chickens, and pigs, and goats, and slugs, and insects, etc. No matter how cute or ugly they are.

And its your regular person that draws a distinction and has no problem with eating a pig, but when they hear about a dog or a dolphin being killed - they become outraged.

 

This was about vegan activism. None of what I said is precludes personal life style choices.

My critique of veganism is mostly against the P. Singer brand of extreme veganism and idiotic activism. I'd love to see a more realistic and informative dialogue that doesn't use emotional blackmail and outrage as a crutch because veganism can be a positive influence. The problem is if you subsume that veganism is the only solution, which I fundamentally disagree with philosophically and I believe to be simply impossible considering the world we live in, hence "flawed".

The reason people disrespect vegans is because your insufferable. That should say something about your politics. Its unserious and merely groupthink.

21 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

I agree, but that's not what altruism means? At least not in my understanding.

Altruism is when you harbor a concern for others, independent of personal benefit.

Vegans care about the welfare of animals primarily as an ideology.

Therefore veganism is an altruistic ideology.

[Schizophonia]

20 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

 

And its your regular person that draws a distinction and has no problem with eating a pig, but when they hear about a dog or a dolphin being killed - they become outraged.

 

Because dogs are used as pets, we have been neurologically and psychologically conditioned to see them as such.
Pasture animals have no other use than to be eaten.

In fact, some animals that are selected to be pets, such as dogs or cats, are sometimes still eaten in some places in the world.

[Something Funny]

8 minutes ago, Basman said:

My critique of veganism is mostly against the P. Singer brand of extreme veganism and idiotic activism.

So against 0.1 percent of vegan activism?

8 minutes ago, Basman said:

I'd love to see a more realistic and informative dialogue that doesn't use emotional blackmail and outrage as a crutch because veganism can be a positive influence.

You mean like all the amazing documentaries, blogs, books, that were made, all the rescue animal shelters, all the peaceful protests and demonstrations?

8 minutes ago, Basman said:

The reason people disrespect vegans is because your insufferable.

This is just going in circles.

 

"The reason I don't like you is because you are unlikable"

What's the actual reason why veganism is so triggering to people. Why so many people have such strong opinions about it, despite the fact that most of them haven't even met a single vegan in their life?

Because veganism questions people's worlviews, values, and beliefs. For the same reason people freak out about trans people, or gay people, or immigrants.

Just look at all the example that you used before, they are all texbook examples of finding some ragebait edgecase and being met about it.

Like those stories about people changing their kids gender and drag queens in schools, etc.

Very few people whonare outraged by veganism have actually had a bad experience with a vegan person irl.

Even Buck Edwards, when asked about who shamed her about eating animal, had to resort to lying about me doing it, even though I have never done such thing.

And she had to post a video if some trolls coming to a vegan demonstration and creating an argument THEMSELVES, but made it vegans fault for "shaming people"

11 minutes ago, Basman said:

That should say something about your politics. Its unserious and merely groupthink.

It says what I've just said. Its too radical, challenging, and scary for most people. And its not any more groupthink than any other political movement. In fact, vegans on average are more developed. They are SD stage green, compared to most other people who are blue and orange.

[Something Funny]

20 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Because dogs are used as pets, we have been neurologically and psychologically conditioned to see them as such.
Pasture animals have no other use than to be eaten.

In fact, some animals that are selected to be pets, such as dogs or cats, are sometimes still eaten in some places in the world.

Exactly what I was saying. Normal people treat different animals differently, based on their usefulness,cuteness, cultural conditioning, etc.

Vegans say that all animals should be treated equally no matter if they happen to be useful to your survival agenda or not.

20 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Pasture animals have no other use than to be eaten.

A vegan would say that animal life is not there to be useful to you and to beexploited by you. It just is, for its own sake. That's the fundamental distinction.

You don't give an animal the right to just be. It has to be useful to you. Its all about you and your ego. Me me me. You have no respect and recognition for them as a separate being.

Edited yesterday at 01:33 PM by Something Funny

[Schizophonia]

43 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Exactly what I was saying. Normal people treat different animals differently, based on their usefulness,cuteness, cultural conditioning, etc.

Yes, it's on the conclusion to have we're disagree. 

It's not only a difference we do between different species but also between humans : You don't treat your mother the same way you treat a random 50yo woman, and you don't treat a non attractive girl the same way you treat an attractive girl.

Quote

Vegans say that all animals should be treated equally no matter if they happen to be useful to your survival agenda or not.

 

Why ?

43 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

A vegan would say that animal life is not there to be useful to you and to beexploited by you. It just is, for its own sake. That's the fundamental distinction.

Nothing it's there for your survival or not, it's a purely adaptive process. Animals are used for their meat, eggs, milk, and possibly their labor; all animals do that.

Quote

You don't give an animal the right to just be.

You don't have neither, the only real fundamental reason why we don't treat you like an animal is because as a human you are part of the community and have a power relationship that an animal does not have; An animal does not pay taxes and cannot conspire against its employer. You can't do anything against another human being and to protect your own interest you will wish for yourself a society with justice, but a justice that secures cohabitation with potentially threatening factors, that is to say other humans! Not animals.
Life is a power relationship between libidinal forces, no matter how much you feel the need to protect your ego by drowning this phenomenon in additional layers of concepts like veganism, humanism, egalitarianism or whatever. 

Quote

It has to be useful to you. Its all about you and your ego. Me me me. You have no respect and recognition for them as a separate being.

It is actually you who is the most self-centered in this story; you live in the split, negatively connote the object according to ideological and abstract criteria in order to be able to identify yourself in fine with the good, turning the camera towards yourself and congratulating yourself is the way in which you are encouraged to enjoy in this context.

In my position, there is no narcissism at all, just hovering desires projected on external objects. 

The less selfish a desire is, the more regressive and narcissistic it is in fact.

Edited yesterday at 02:11 PM by Schizophonia

[Something Funny]

7 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It's not only a difference we do between different species but also between humans : You don't treat your mother the same way you treat a random 50yo woman, and you don't treat a non attractive girl the same way you treat an attractive girl.

Its not in the same. There are still some basic standards with which I treat a person no matter whi they are. Like not eating them for dinner.

Vegan advocate for extending those standards to animals as well.

8 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Why ?

Because vegans share deep love, empathy, and respect for living beings that most humans don't have.

9 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

You don't have neither, the only real fundamental reason why we don't treat you like an animal is because as a human you are part of the community and have a power relationship that an animal does not have;

 

13 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

An animal does not pay taxes and cannot conspire against its employer. You can't do anything against another human being and to protect your own interest you will wish for yourself a society with justice, but a justice that secures cohabitation with potentially threatening factors, that is to say other humans! Not animals.
Life is a power relationship between libidinal forces, no matter how much you feel the need to protect your ego by drowning this phenomenon in additional layers of concepts like veganism, humanism, egalitari

No. You are only presenting part of the picture. The other part of it is that people have morals and empathy that they are guided by. And they consider certain things to be unacceptable and wouldn't want to live in a society that engages in those things. It has nothing to do with power.

 

17 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It is actually you who is the most self-centered in this story; you live in the split, negatively connote the object according to ideological and abstract criteria in order to be able to identify yourself in fine with the good, turning the camera towards yourself and congratulating yourself is the way in which you are encouraged to enjoy in this context.

Nice projection.

You actually have zero clue about what my reason for being a vegan are and how I view myself. Sorry, I don't fit into your little couch psychology bubble.

19 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

The less selfish a desire is, the more regressive and narcissistic it is in fact.

[Something Funny]

22 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

my position, there is no narcissism at all, just hovering desires projected on external objects. 

This is just your interpretation of my words. It has nothing to do with what I've said. I didn't say anything about narcissism or selfishness or desires. Just described the way you look at animals.

23 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

The less selfish a desire is, the more regressive and narcissistic it is in fact.

According to you

[Something Funny]

27 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Nothing it's there for your survival or not, it's a purely adaptive process. Animals are used for their meat, eggs, milk, and possibly their labor; all animals do that.

Not sure what you mean but If you are saying that nothing is just there for its own sake, then I disagree.

All thise projections about how you can use who are irrelevant.

[AION]

I tried to be nice to him but he seems like he is malnourished and his brain is not functioning anymore. Most are  in a downward spiral and they try to take everybody with them.

 

Edited yesterday at 02:48 PM by AION

[Something Funny]

31 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Life is a power relationship between libidinal forces, no matter how much you feel the need to protect your ego by drowning this phenomenon in additional layers of concepts like veganism, humanism, egalitarianism or whatever. 

Look, I am glad that you've found a new hobby in reading Freud but this is just one little perspective out of a hundred. And its not even the best one.

[Something Funny]

Just now, AION said:

I tried to be nice to him but he seems like he is malnourished and his brain is not functioning anymore. Most are  in a downward spiral and they try to take everybody with them.

 

You are the one who posts the same retarded video again and again like a chatbot, lol.

You can't even quote the right person.

[AION]

@Something Funny it is not the same video

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

1. You are the one who's made the most unspecific claim ever and said that you are going to feel better than A vegan.

It is a specific claim about health. My omnivore diet is going to grant me superior health compared to most vegans on this planet. Based on, you know, literal facts. I don't deny that for some people veganism works and is genuinely healthy because it's simply that their genetics is different, influenced by what their ancestors ate. But these people are moreso a rarity. Most people's ancestors hunted a lot and ate a lot of meat, therefore most people's genetics is tailored to that. Most people need meat and/or animal products. Claiming otherwise is completely delusional. There are basically only 2 things you can do about it - 1. genetic engineering on the next generation before they're born, or 2. mass producing high quality lab meat. Both of these are theoretically possible, we are just not there yet. And it's going to be still challenging.

Overall, I agree with you in one fundamental thing - ultimately we should be aiming towards decreasing suffering, any suffering. Including animal one. But it can't happen yet because we aren't capable of the aforementioned things, and that's what you peahead vegans refuse to understand.

Seeing as physical health is very closely linked to mental health, I therefore made the general claim I have made. I don't need to name any specific vegan and compare myself against him, since this applies mass scale to most of them.

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

Just my intuition. You seem kind of small minded and petty. So I am pretty sure that I can outdo you simply due to the sheer power of my unyielding, fiery spirit!

That sounds pretty insecure and beta, not gonna lie. I think I'm done with this discussion

[Something Funny]

Just now, AION said:

@Something Funny it is not the same video

Its literally the same dumb type of video that you've share like 10 times already. Its even from the same playlist, lol.

Like I've already said, come back when you are able to share something of value.

[Something Funny]

5 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

That sounds pretty insecure and beta, not gonna lie. I think I'm done with this discussion

Lol, good job identifying yourself as a brain dead red piller from reddit. You are right, there is no reason for us to keep talking.

Go listen to andrew tate or whatever rapist is popular with you guys nowadays.

Edited yesterday at 02:51 PM by Something Funny

[AION]

@NewKidOnTheBlock He seems very toxic and angry. And then he is surprised when nobody wants to engage him. All the while running this thread.

Edited yesterday at 02:54 PM by AION

[Something Funny]

@AION

2 minutes ago, AION said:

And then he is surprised when nobody wants to engage him.

Huh? Somehow all everyone here does is engages with me...

[Something Funny]

3 minutes ago, AION said:

He seems very toxic and angry

Sorry, I happen to be allergic to stupidity.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

31 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Lol, good job identifying yourself as a brain dead red piller from reddit. You are right, there is no reason for us to keep talking.

Go listen to andrew tate or whatever rapist is popular with you guys nowadays.

Actually not at all. I just think that the fact you're so emotional and willing to prove something to people who don't even know you and you don't even know them, and compete with them. Sounds pretty insecure and yeah, word beta comes to mind. People like Tate would actually encourage men to compete over petty BS seeing as they have a lot of insecurity themselves

[Something Funny]

@NewKidOnTheBlock sorry, I just think that whenever people use language like this it says a lot about them. 

Good to hear that you are better than that. And I agree that I have gotten pretty emotional, but that's only because you guys can be dense as fuck.

23 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

willing to prove something to people who don't even know

I am not sure what you think I am trying to prove to you? I am not asking you to become vegan it just pisses me off when you guys strawman and misrepresent veganism so much.