Should women give birth to babies?

[Candle]

1. It's too painful. Before arguing, get some knowledge about how painful it is. It's as painful as if someone broke your 42  bones. Don't be so selfish to ignore your partner's pain. 
2. C-Section : It's a surgery performed under anesthesia (spinal or general). It avoids labor pain but involves recovery pain post-surgery. 
3. Population is too much. Resources on Earth are less. Consumption is too much. Quality and value of humans is reduced when quantity is too much. (People like Elon Musk run after net worth, that's why they promote giving birth to babies. Don't listen to them.) 
4. Population must decrease especially in China and India. And USA too. 
5. There are millions of abused, or underprivileged children, why don't you adopt them? Why are you creating new ones and burdening the planet? If you genuinely want to raise kids, then there should be no problem in adopting. 

@Evelyna @Emerald @Thought Art 

Edited January 3 by Candle

[Emerald]

Too late. I already have two of them.

The pain of giving birth is painful. But interestingly enough, I have a hard time remembering what it felt like. And the results were worth it. 

And the population is naturally declining anyway because people want to have fewer kids and many people don't want to have kids.

And while I agree that population decrease is necessary to combat climate change, that's already happening rapidly enough to where it could cause some tangential problems in the coming 50 years.

We actually might want to tap the breaks a little bit on population decline if possible to make it a smoother transition.

So, I don't really think anti-natalist sentiment is necessary as the population is naturally decreasing as societies have shifted away from need-based child-rearing of having 12 kids to work the farm to desire-based post-industrial patterns of no kids, 1 kid, or 2 kids being the norm.

The replacement rate is 2.1 in the United States, and the US birth rate is 1.66. So, I think we're doing fine. Might even want to bump it up to 1.8 or 1.9 to make the transition smoother.

Edited January 3 by Emerald

[Candle]

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

that's already happening rapidly enough

 

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

the population is naturally declining anyway because people want to have fewer kids and many people don't want to have kids.

Thanks for responding. 

You're right , but it applies to USA and developed countries only. 

Other countries have a pathetic condition. You have no idea about the mentality and lack of education of millions of people in such countries. 

I'm from India. 

India's estimated population is approximately 1.451 billion people, with a male population of about 748 million and a female population of around 703 million. 

45 million girls are missing (female foeticide) from the population. Naturally male and female population is equal. 

When 3 Hindu girls are converted to Muslim, whole nation starts creating drama. And they don't see the 45 million that were murdered before birth. 

Sorry for digressing. 

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I don't really think anti-natalist sentiment is necessary

It's necessary even in USA. the lesser the population is, the better. 

Bcz a human's life is full of suffering. An SA survivor wishes they had never been born in the first place. 

Edited January 3 by Candle

[Emerald]

38 minutes ago, Candle said:

It's necessary even in USA. the lesser the population is, the better. 

Bcz a human's life is full of suffering. An SA survivor wishes they had never been born in the first place. 

First off, I've experienced several instances of sexual assault, and I don't wish I'd never been born. And most people who've experienced major traumas still value their lives.

But that's just more anti-natalist ideology to think of life as only suffering and that that suffering nullifies the value of life. And so, they see having children as a terrible act. But it's out of touch with the way that most people relate to life and the sufferings of life.

The issue with the idea, "the lesser the population the better" is that the population is already decreasing quite rapidly.

And that will create issues for several generations with having an older population and fewer younger people in the workforce to care for the aging population. It will also creates issues for the economy and infrastructure.

So, while I agree that the population needs to decrease to combat climate change and that these tangential issues are just our cross to bear as we do so... we don't need to do anything to make that happen faster.

It's already happening. Just let nature run its course without applying any "shoulds" or "should nots" from ideologies that most people don't agree with.

[Candle]

@Emerald you americans won't understand. Let it go. 

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I've experienced several instances of sexual assault 

I'm sorry for this. Did u take therapy? 

Edited January 3 by Candle

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Resources on Earth are enough in quantity. The problem is late stage capitalism/neo feudalism and our current political systems which allocates these resources illogically (from a whole humanity's standpoint) as well as destroys enviroment for made up non existent currencies/capital. There is fundamentally no motivation for people to make children, because the children would very likely live the exact same slave lives as their parents. If we got rid of all capitalism and replaced it with a superior economic system (which is only going to be achieved by a bunch of things going well for us in a miraculous way, I'm not getting into that here) then people would start having children again. But capitalism needs to be replaced (as well as our current version of democracy). Enviromental issues would then get fixed almost immidiatelly as a byproduct, as well as probably most issues we are now facing.

[Candle]

3 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Resources on Earth are enough in quantity.

Yes that's true. But I'm talking about the crowds. I'm talking about the industries and pollution. More population= more consumption= more industries = more pollution= more crowd= more traffic= .........

Americans shouldn't answer. I shouldn't have started the thread maybe. 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

1 hour ago, Candle said:

Yes that's true. But I'm talking about the crowds. I'm talking about the industries and pollution. More population= more consumption= more industries = more pollution= more crowd= more traffic= .........

Americans shouldn't answer. I shouldn't have started the thread maybe. 

I'm not an American.

That equation is not necessarilly true. Correct technological development together with correct alocation of resources (according to your true needs) would completely eliminate that equation. With the current development of A.I. humanity is getting to the point where such a system would be much more realistic and sustainable. But this is all completely blocked by capitalism

But this is not a topic for a dating section anyway

[Schizophonia]

6 hours ago, Candle said:

1. It's too painful. Before arguing, get some knowledge about how painful it is. It's as painful as if someone broke your 42  bones. Don't be so selfish to ignore your partner's pain. 
2. C-Section : It's a surgery performed under anesthesia (spinal or general). It avoids labor pain but involves recovery pain post-surgery.

Now you have access to epidural + It's an exceptional pain.
You are here because hundreds of generations of homo sapiens before you have overcome this, your wife will be able to do it.

Most of the time women love their children, men too in a less extent ; This is the purpose of existence and if you don't have children it will be to focus on unsatisfactory, unnatural and low-conscious subjects like politics or "personal development".

Quote

1. Population is too much. Resources on Earth are less. Consumption is too much. Quality and value of humans is reduced when quantity is too much. (People like Elon Musk run after net worth, that's why they promote giving birth to babies. Don't listen to them.) 

Educated and financially well-off westerner and far easterners should have more children. 

In some developing countries people have too many children indeed.

Quote

1.  
2. There are millions of abused, or underprivileged children, why don't you adopt them? Why are you creating new ones and burdening the planet? If you genuinely want to raise kids, then there should be no problem in adopting. 

@Evelyna @Emerald @Thought Art 

Because i want my son to be an energetic and genetic extension of myself, a big mirror in general, not a random little african guy; It's an obvious atavism.
If you find that problematic, just sell all your belongings and give them away, after all, why are you so selfish about enjoying life when some people live in trash cans in Darfur.
It's a delusional mentality.

Edited January 3 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

First off, I've experienced several instances of sexual assault, and I don't wish I'd never been born. And most people who've experienced major traumas still value their lives.

But that's just more anti-natalist ideology to think of life as only suffering and that that suffering nullifies the value of life. And so, they see having children as a terrible act. But it's out of touch with the way that most people relate to life and the sufferings of life.

The issue with the idea, "the lesser the population the better" is that the population is already decreasing quite rapidly.

And that will create issues for several generations with having an older population and fewer younger people in the workforce to care for the aging population. It will also creates issues for the economy and infrastructure.

So, while I agree that the population needs to decrease to combat climate change and that these tangential issues are just our cross to bear as we do so... we don't need to do anything to make that happen faster.

It's already happening. Just let nature run its course without applying any "shoulds" or "should nots" from ideologies that most people don't agree with.

Only science will really resolve climate change.

[Hojo]

What else would an animal give birth to? Adults?

[Candle]

You guys won't understand anything I'm strongly in favor of having kids (adopting them). Kids are great. 

And you don't even know how to debate? You can see only one point (population)? What about 1st and 5th point? Why don't you emphasize them? They are more important. 

I know what I know and I won't explain common sense to others. It's your job to clear your concepts. 

You guys write whatever crosses your mind. 

If you don't understand, it doesn't make any difference to my conceptual clarity, it can't shake it. I have contemplated everything for hours and days. 

No wonder why the world is so f up.

Do live in a bubble please !!! 

@Leo Gura

@Emerald @Hojo @Schizophonia @NewKidOnTheBlock 

Edit : I have posting limits. Cz I'm new here. So I can't post now..

 

"as humans with egos, most would want their children to be their own genetic offspring. " 

- yes, this is a sign of low wisdom and low humanity. 

 

Edit 2 : 

If population is decreasing. It's a good news. Won't explain how. So Birth rate should be less than Repl. rate. 

Edited January 4 by Candle

[eos_nyxia]

I have no disagreements with you, but you're not going to find a childfree/ anti-natalism to be a popular stance anywhere, except within those types of communities.

Personally, I would not wish for a child to inherit half or even one-fifth of what I've struggled with over the course of my lifetime. Much of it starts with inherited conditions, sensitivities, or vulnerabilities. Not in this world, even if I have so much I could share. Of course, this is not how it usually works anyway. The things parents are most preoccupied with helping their children avoid are often no-issue to their children, and then that parental preoccupation becomes a blind spot. This can be dealt with by dealing with reality as it truly is as openly and honestly as possible, and not making everything about your own preoccupations and anxieties.

I am looking forward to being an aunt though.

[ThermalTide]

Women should give birth to babies if they want to. I agree it's painful and theres too many humans, but (most) women have an innate desire to have children, and I'd reckon most would want to do so vaginally, epidural or no. I do think adoption is a great thing and I wish more people would look into this, however as humans with egos, most would want their children to be their own genetic offspring. 

[M A J I]

10 hours ago, Candle said:

1. It's too painful. Before arguing, get some knowledge about how painful it is. It's as painful as if someone broke your 42  bones. Don't be so selfish to ignore your partner's pain. 
2. C-Section : It's a surgery performed under anesthesia (spinal or general). It avoids labor pain but involves recovery pain post-surgery. 
3. Population is too much. Resources on Earth are less. Consumption is too much. Quality and value of humans is reduced when quantity is too much. (People like Elon Musk run after net worth, that's why they promote giving birth to babies. Don't listen to them.) 
4. Population must decrease especially in China and India. And USA too. 
5. There are millions of abused, or underprivileged children, why don't you adopt them? Why are you creating new ones and burdening the planet? If you genuinely want to raise kids, then there should be no problem in adopting. 

@Evelyna @Emerald @Thought Art 

Let me clear somethings up, I have many sisters who have natural births and completely different experiences.

Child bird is not meant to be painful, rather it is meant to be blissful. There are many reasons why most women experience pain and I will share what was passed on by my sisters who provided painless births.

First of all children are meant to be born in a body of water, river, or bathtub and the woman is meant to be positioned more vertical than horizontal. Another thing is the environment must be very natural and peaceful, away from any people, random doctors or strangers you don't know and electronics/artificial buildings and devices. The child picks up everything, the emotions and stress of the mother thus reacts / restrains and resists the delivery if it doesn't feel safe on all levels physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually as they are deeply in tune with the mother, even more so than she may always be aware of herself.

The woman must also be free from any drugs or chemicals during pregnancy, this is instant trauma on the child and the relationship with the mother, if she is numbed out then that severs the relationship with the daughter and may never fully develop even in later years.

C-Section is even worse and most of the time can be avoided. It cuts the connection and emotional/spiritual development even further.

Population is not a problem, we have enough land to host 20+ billion people and have 1 hectare of land to themselves, the problem is people are too confined and attached to the cities and more crowded environments and cannot take full responsibility for themselves thus why governments play chess with the paws and people are used like slaves. They can invest in some land and start creating their own Garden of Eden.

Creating new life is one of God's greatest joys, you are literally creating alchemy of the best and most refined parts of the parents infused to literally create a golden child, if you know how to raise them and in a natural and supportive environment, those children can become Buddhas or Christs.

It also is important with how the child was convinced, was it out of lust and pleasure and carnal/fleshly desires or was the focus when creating the child of a higher consciousness, love, a divine dream and co-creation, all these things play out in the entire 9 months afterwards and the birth itself.

"It seemed to them, as it seems to people living today; that
such a sensation comes afresh each time there is a merging of
the male and female elements, their visible bodies, their flesh.
"In fact the satisfaction from the merging of mere fleshly
bodies is fleeting and incomplete. In the intercourse of car-
nal desire there is no participation by the higher planes of the
human self. Man aspired to feel a sense of fulness by changing
bodies and methods of coming together, but even today he
has not achieved anything fully.
"The sad consequence of these carnal pleasures has been
their children. The children were deprived of conscious as-
pirations toward the goal of realisation of the Divine dream.
And women began experiencing pain in childbirth. And the
rising generation was doomed to live in torment, and the ab-
sence of the three planes of being meant they were afforded
no opportunity of attaining happiness in any way. And so we
have come down to the present day.

 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

@Candle And despite knowing about the first point, a lot of women still go ahead with having children, or at least a significant ammount even to these economically unfavourable days, how do you explain that? Because the pain lasts only for a few hours but the result is wonderfull. And it's just a natural part of being a woman.

[Basman]

The biggest obstacle to having children in first world countries in economical. Its too expensive and women have children later and later while the window of fertility stays being relatively short.

There needs to be more incentives for having kids early for women.