How Do I Avoid This Zen Devil Trap?

[Dan Arnautu]

Hi guys! Thanks for taking the time to read this post!

DISCLAIMER: I take full responsibility for my internal state. I don't blame spiritual teachings or anything else for how I feel.

So, since I started to learn more about spirituality, I started facing a loss of motivation to build new habits, continue my old succesful ones, work on my skills etc. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I'M NOT STILL DOING THEM, but just that my attitude towards them has changed.

For example, before (learning about spirituality), I experienced great joy from hitting PR's in the gym, looking better and better and getting stronger. Now though, my mind seem to be putting negative twists to every sign of progress that I get in any area of life. For example, I may sometimes hit a milestone, and my mind would say something like: ”Yeah, you hit a milestone, but what's the point, it won't matter in the end.”, "Oh, so you've learned 5 new scales on the guitar, but you know you are not your skills or your ability, so it still doesn't matter in the end." or "Ok, you've put 5 kg of muscle and got rid of 10 kg of fat this year, but you are not your body, so don't be so excited about that 6 pack."

I know that one thing to do would be not to engage in these compulsive thoughts and rather just observe them for what they are. BUT, I want to go deeper than that. I want to be able to change the interpretations of the experiences back to something more positive, that would amp me up rather than bring me down.

How can I find the ambitious side of myself again that experiences joy from mastery (of anything) ? 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Dan Arnautu

[egoeimai]

Hm ,did u have any similar thoughts to those negatives before learning about spirituality.? Maybe the already existed grow or new thoughts and beliefs came into the game. Its totally ok.

It is totally normal,all these changes. These couldve happened even If u werent into spirituality.

Now you have a fear of losing your main interests but I think youre improving because spiritual ppl are not so interested in looks. So thats good. But nihilism isnt a way to go either.

 

 

[Dan Arnautu]

@egoeimai Thank you for answering!

No, I did not have any of these thoughts before spirituality. Before learning about spirituality, life for me was much more exuberant and spontaneous. I was always the happiest in the room, took pride in my work ethic, abilities and so on. Right now, I don't know what I am missing.

It may be a new unconscious belief that just because I need to disindentify myself from certain things, that I am also no longer allowed to enjoy those things, ex. my body and natural talents. (as I am writing this, it seems like a good insight that I haven't thought of before). These nihilistic thoughts seem to be unconscious. 

Another reason may be the fact that once my ”false sense of security” has been shattered (when I took comfort in my assumptions and beliefs), that may have been a trigger of my fearfulness of reality.

Also, I do not fear losing interest in these things (this I will always have), but I may fear losing joy from doing and achieving milestones and mastery in those things.

[egoeimai]

But you can enjoy doing things,spirituality encourages it. Haha

[Stoica Doru]

You also must consider the fact that most of your motivations are derived from the ego. And once your consciousness rises, you'll find most of your desires to be washed away. It's a normal part of the process, as the awakening shows you what it's worth pursuing in a higher vibrational sphere, and what is not. You'll get your motivation back.

And, by the way, being a Zen Devil means using enlightenment or the non-duality thruth to be ignorant and use it as an excuse to be an asshole and manipulate others, or do harm to whatever surrounds you, even yourself at times, which is kind of funny. Judging by your motivations, you're not heading that way, as long as it concerns ''you'', or, I should rather say, the neglected part of your ego is confused, the part which deserves your attention, that's why it's so misleading at times. Hang in there, you'll be just fine. Beee confuseeed!  

Edited May 6, 2017 by Stoica Doru

[Dan Arnautu]

@egoeimai Haha, thank you. That really brought my mood up.

These long lasting problems in my head seem to be resolved quickly as I get insights in conversations with other people. This has always been the case for me. I usually need to talk to someone so I can figure out a solution in conversation. Even if it's just a monologue and the other person is just listening to me.

Before, it has not been a problem, but now, being in college, I don't talk to many people and I spend like 80% of my week alone in my own thoughts and awareness, haha.

[Dan Arnautu]

@Stoica Doru A zen devil is not just one who is able to do evil after enlightenment. It can also be one who uses being enlightened as an excuse to not engage with the outer world, to not learn history, biology and all that is not related to spirituality, to not achieve mastery in anything and that considers all things outside spirituality meaningless.

So in a sense, yes, a Zen devil can be an ignorant person seeking enlightenment or an ignorant enlightened being and not just a manipulative or evil enlightened being.

[Stoica Doru]

31 minutes ago, Dan Arnautu said:

@Stoica Doru A zen devil is not just one who is able to do evil after enlightenment. It can also be one who uses being enlightened as an excuse to not engage with the outer world, to not learn history, biology and all that is not related to spirituality, to not achieve mastery in anything and that considers all things outside spirituality meaningless.

So in a sense, yes, a Zen devil can be an ignorant person seeking enlightenment or an ignorant enlightened being and not just a manipulative or evil enlightened being.

It's just a concept, in the end. It doesn't need any stress about it. As long as you're aware it's a trap, you can avoid it pretty easily.

[Erlend]

10 hours ago, Dan Arnautu said:

”Yeah, you hit a milestone, but what's the point, it won't matter in the end.”, "Oh, so you've learned 5 new scales on the guitar, but you know you are not your skills or your ability, so it still doesn't matter in the end." 

And so what? Does that matter? Do you need to attach anything negative to that?  

[Shin]

Sounds like your ego is using spirituality to get lazy.

The joy of doing these things will come back in time, you'll just be detached from them (except the ones that weren't authentic)

You won't search completion in them, and in the end you will enjoy them more

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Shin

[Max_V]

I've had this too myself. When your conscious rises, neurotic motivation tends to fade away. If you keep at it and keep growing yourself you will soon find that authentic motivation will enter into your life.

No more "I need to gain more muscle because otherwise I look ugly, I have to this and that to be better". 

Just keep practising and you will get your motivation back!

[Barna]

@Dan Arnautu I just learned the answer for your question a few days ago from a Matt Kahn video. It's a long ass video, but I made it start from the relevant part. However, I recommend watching the whole video, it's worth your time.  

 

[Dan Arnautu]

@Barna Thank you very much. I've already watched some of Matt's other videos. Good stuff.