JedMcKenna confusion and problems with my spiritual path

[Howtolive]

Hello everybody,

I would love to get some help organising my thoughts/experiences and hopefully get some clearer view. I started working on my inner self emotions etc 10 months ago. The programm I did was not only about emotions but also a lot about the concept of ego. To realise one owns ego and how to deal with emotions etc. I learned some good techniques and got some better insights but a lot of the stuff I learned about spirituality in that programm were confusing me. I think looking back the teacher probably also started mixing different topics. Because this confused me so much I started to go deeper into spirituality and get some clearer views. That worked partly but also the phenomenon that one questions leads to more questions also appeared. 
It got to a peak after my first ever LSD trip. I only did a small does off about 50ug. But this still was very strong for me. During the trip the questions arrived: "What is the actual real reality"? . This question scared me because the reality during my trip looked rather dark and depressing. Probably because I was dripping mostly at night.

Shortly after the trip I was very sceptic about the stuff I learned in my previous programm. So I went more and more into hardcore non duality teachings wich eventually led me to the JedMcKenna books. At one point of reading I remember feeling something like a super strong existential fear popping up. My hole body got very heavy and some sort of depressed feeling started kicking in ( I was very scared because I never had these feeling before). Couple weeks after I managed to have a little bit of an emotion release and the hole depression feelings lifted off. Some is still left. I can feel this feelings especially in the evening. It feels like me being confused and a little depressed in a mix.
Maybe you have some advice of what happened to me here exactly? I have the feeling there is still something "stuck" from the book within me.

Also I had one good experience with an emotional release, I am still very analytical when it comes to understanding emotions/spirituality/non duality/ personal development. Here are some general questions that confused me:

-"You can only be really happy in the now.. ": Really? what if I am hungry? I am currently more happy after I eat something when being hungry. It also feels like this kind of believe keeps me from having goals. One part why humans have goals is because they feel good when reaching them. Of course after that an empty feeling might accrue. But to say reaching goals will not make you happy.. I am not so sure.

-"Only observe never react..": I can clearly see how a lot of the reactions we have to emotions keep us unconscious. But I also can see some benefits of reacting to emotions. In a fight or flight scenario the body reacts to emotions and stress to survive. Also laughing about a joke could be seen as a reaction. I reacted to the emotions and thats why I laughed. Lastly it feels very exuathing to really observe everything all the time. Maybe the autopilot we have is not so bad. We just have to create a useful autopilot?

-Lot of spiritual/emotional teachers seem to lack a clear set of values. I dont ever see them talking about their value hierarchy. I mostly hear them saying that they will just decide in the present moment... Okey so ? How does that help with the learning of ethics or morals? On the contrary I see a lot of spiritual people believing in moralistic relativism ("Ohh there is no right and wrong").

-"Trust and abundance is everything". I see a lot of teachers blaming that fear has no use and as long as we life in trust we do not need to worry about anything because life has our backs. The teacher from my programm claimed that he lives fully in financial abundance. Often his bank account is close to zero but somehow magically money always seem to flow in when he needs something (a new customer in his programm, some money from govement, some donation ....). Has the fear really no purpose? is 100% trust really the answer to all the problems ?

-"Violence is bad. We only want to life harmonious" I often see spiritual teachers dismissing that in order for harmony to exist some concentrated force/violence is needed. For example peace in society is only possible because we outsourced violence to the police. So in my eyes violence needs to be integrated not dismissed.

-"you are not your thoughts and emotions". This also seems highly confusing to me.. Yes I can feel all of them but I want to still be an individual that has certain thoughts and feelings and belives. Otherwise having an identity as only the "watcher" seem rather crazy to me

A lot of stuff I know. But maybe you see a meta pattern that is affecting all my questions? 
I am still a little lost with all this information so I really appreciate some insights.


Thanks for reading !!

 

[WelcometoReality]

Yeah maybe it's not as black and white as they make it out to be. It's good to be both critical and open minded to teachings.

19 hours ago, Howtolive said:

-"You can only be really happy in the now.. ": Really? what if I am hungry? I am currently more happy after I eat something when being hungry. It also feels like this kind of believe keeps me from having goals. One part why humans have goals is because they feel good when reaching them. Of course after that an empty feeling might accrue. But to say reaching goals will not make you happy.. I am not so sure.

You could test this out. Can you be hungry and happy at the same time?

Sure goals can be good. Depending on your goals 🙂 with spirituality you might need to choose. But take it as it comes.

19 hours ago, Howtolive said:

-"you are not your thoughts and emotions". This also seems highly confusing to me.. Yes I can feel all of them but I want to still be an individual that has certain thoughts and feelings and belives. Otherwise having an identity as only the "watcher" seem rather crazy to me

There's a difference between having thoughts and emotions, and being identified with them. There's  a "stickiness" to them when you are identified with them, believing them to be true.

[Princess Arabia]

There is only the now. That comment about "only be happy in the now", is true. You can only be anything in the now. 

You plan your goals in the now and you reach them in the now. 

Only observe, never react is delusion. One is not in control of reacting. Reacting just happens. How one reacts also just happens even though we all react differently to things. It's a matter of how the body is conditioned.

[Howtolive]

On 3.1.2025 at 9:06 AM, WelcometoReality said:

Yeah maybe it's not as black and white as they make it out to be. It's good to be both critical and open minded to teachings.

You could test this out. Can you be hungry and happy at the same time?

Sure goals can be good. Depending on your goals 🙂 with spirituality you might need to choose. But take it as it comes.

There's a difference between having thoughts and emotions, and being identified with them. There's  a "stickiness" to them when you are identified with them, believing them to be true.

The hungry and happy at the same time is indeed a good example thank you ! 

I get that stickiness but it also keeps to much distance to myself. For example when meeting somebody on a date. You get warm feelings because you like the person. And then you keep that distance like "nah this is not me just me feeling" yeah okey.. Like then you can never be in love, you can never laugh about a joke and you can never be hungry. you can only feel this feelings. Sounds bad to identify that way to me 

[Howtolive]

On 3.1.2025 at 5:58 PM, Princess Arabia said:

There is only the now. That comment about "only be happy in the now", is true. You can only be anything in the now. 

You plan your goals in the now and you reach them in the now. 

Only observe, never react is delusion. One is not in control of reacting. Reacting just happens. How one reacts also just happens even though we all react differently to things. It's a matter of how the body is conditioned.

by reacting I meant to feel the fear for example instead of going into the mind and spinning loops. not reacting in that way.

thank you !

[Ishanga]

On 1/3/2025 at 11:58 AM, Princess Arabia said:

There is only the now. That comment about "only be happy in the now", is true. You can only be anything in the now. 

You plan your goals in the now and you reach them in the now. 

Only observe, never react is delusion. One is not in control of reacting. Reacting just happens. How one reacts also just happens even though we all react differently to things. It's a matter of how the body is conditioned.

This is True, but the Now is based off the Past, what is happening Now is routed in the Past, like a Building is rooted in its Foundation, many ppl when looking at a building will look at the interior and exterior features, is it appealing to them, but without a Foundation then none of that will exist in the first place and very very few look at the foundation..

We live in the NOW, not as a ideology or concept, it just is this way, You cannot Live anywhere else so this is the Experiential Foundation, but Living and LIfe and such things are on many different levels of Existence, we are so identified with Mind (which is past/memory and future/imagination based) that most cannot really Live a real Life, since they are so caught up in the non existential of past/future/mind identification, this is where the source of Fear is, when Your living in the non Existent then Fear is natural, Your not connected or Aware of the Reality of Life and therefore No Clarity is present, so what else is there but fight/flight fear stress responses on a consistent basis..

Reaction is Unconscious, anything we can do Unconsciously we can do Consciously, so Responding is contrary to Reacting, and is a Conscious Act, its our choice to invoke this within our own Lives and it takes seeking/striving and Action to bring it forth within Peoples Awareness that this is possible for them!

[WelcometoReality]

23 minutes ago, Howtolive said:

The hungry and happy at the same time is indeed a good example thank you ! 

I get that stickiness but it also keeps to much distance to myself. For example when meeting somebody on a date. You get warm feelings because you like the person. And then you keep that distance like "nah this is not me just me feeling" yeah okey.. Like then you can never be in love, you can never laugh about a joke and you can never be hungry. you can only feel this feelings. Sounds bad to identify that way to me 

And "nah this is not me just me feeling" "is just a thought."" "how do I do this", "No matter what I try to do it's just more thought or feeling" "Gaaah" "here I go again, more thinking" 😆

In my opinion feelings are meant to be felt fully. No matter how "good" or "bad" they might seem. Only once we start to cling to or resist certain feelings do they start to be a problem.

[Breakingthewall]

@Howtolive if I were you I would totally forget any spiritual teaching, all are toxic. Each mind is different from the others, its structures are unique. You have to penetrate into yourself and perceive your energetic structure, no one else can do it, only you. Words and ideas must be left out, only one intention: enter, perceive, open. 

Do you remember when you were a kid, when you were 2 years old? Probably you don't, but in that time the magic was flowing in yourself, and this is the absolute happiness. This is still inside you, without stain, completely perfect, closed in an energetic box. You have to open it

Edited January 6 by Breakingthewall

[Breathe]

I was really into Jed's books for a while. They did some good in the sense that it made me realize how little I actually know. However, I see a lot of people become inthralled by Jed's confidence and his feelings of superiority because they want that for themself. He grew a cult-like following of really unhealthy seekers.

What I've learned over the years is to trust teachers who are kind, direct, humble, competent, trustworthy. Ultimately, choose a teacher who you admire, and not just for egoic reasons. I don't know you, but many fall into the trap of following a teacher simply based on charisma. You see this in politics too, it's a common dynamic.

Why trust a teacher who isolates and doesn't give a fuck about anyone?

Edited January 8 by Breathe

[Howtolive]

On 6.1.2025 at 11:24 PM, Breakingthewall said:

@Howtolive if I were you I would totally forget any spiritual teaching, all are toxic. Each mind is different from the others, its structures are unique. You have to penetrate into yourself and perceive your energetic structure, no one else can do it, only you. Words and ideas must be left out, only one intention: enter, perceive, open. 

Do you remember when you were a kid, when you were 2 years old? Probably you don't, but in that time the magic was flowing in yourself, and this is the absolute happiness. This is still inside you, without stain, completely perfect, closed in an energetic box. You have to open it

In a sense I get what you mean but on the other hand so far I needed to create a map in my mind which explains all the different kinds of teachings. It helped me understand what is going all. Leo also impacted me by understanding that there are different categories: emotional healing, personality development, spirituality, non duality. 

Can you tell me how to advance without any teaching ?

[Howtolive]

3 hours ago, Breathe said:

I was really into Jed's books for a while. They did some good in the sense that it made me realize how little I actually know. However, I see a lot of people become inthralled by Jed's confidence and his feelings of superiority because they want that for themself. He grew a cult-like following of really unhealthy seekers.

What I've learned over the years is to trust teachers who are kind, direct, humble, competent, trustworthy. Ultimately, choose a teacher who you admire, and not just for egoic reasons. I don't know you, but many fall into the trap of following a teacher simply based on charisma. You see this in politics too, it's a common dynamic.

Why trust a teacher who isolates and doesn't give a fuck about anyone?

Yeah I 100% agree. The jedmcKenna reddit forum is full of toxic people. They may have a better grasp on non duality than the average spiritual seeker. But they completely deny mental suffering/physical suffering, different devolvement stages inside spirituality. The always go super meta and ask: "Who is the one suffering?" Like super unpractical. And I also see a lot of followers actually drown more in nihilism then spirituality.

Becuase I read the book after my LSD trip it really took a big hit on me and I had these existential fears coming up. I also think obsessive thinking started to hook itself into that topic. I mostly solved it by one emotional release, declaring clear values for myself and understanding that there are different levels and stages (spiral dynamics video from Leo)

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Howtolive said:

Can you tell me how to advance without any teaching ?

The only way is observing yourself deeper and deeper, no teach is true, all are just pointers and in some point all are toxic, the mind must be absolutely free. We have to perceive our obstacles and dissolve them, until we are totally open

[Aaron p]

just beware of spiritual dogma. by that i mean spiritual "information." when moving towards enlightenment (even slowly) the problem becomes getting rid of subconscious spiritual bullshit youve accidentally adopted. also dont fear confusion, its actually a good sign at certain points. confusion shows that you are putting effort into actually thinking about the concepts. your gona get a lot of conflicting information in the spiritual domain and confusion is going to be your best friend during certain times. it is not the enemy. you must also become highly eclectic with your gathering of spiritual maps and information knowing that nobody, not sadhguru, not allan watts, not leo gura, is immune from inaccuracies. Of course different teachers will have varying degrees of bullshitery (leo is definitely the best imo, he himself is extremely eclectic). but you must be the ultimate authority, your fuckin god man. there is nobody else haha. just dont do what teacher say just because they say it (also dont do that< unless you deem it to be appropriate). other teachers dont exist. also if your experiencing confusion and dont know what to do, just remember the entire essence of enlightenment work: find the no-self so that god can return. and if your experiencing confusion still, just sit and watch the ego being confused...be amused by it trying to figure out the universe. in fact, you could even intentionally confuse yourself just to drill home the point that what you are remains in the mist of confusion, depression, ecstasy, breakdancing, a storm, an interdimensional trip through DMT realms and anything else. you remain. and thats what the entirety of enlightenment is about. now go smoke some dmt you silly goose

[Breathe]

2 hours ago, Aaron p said:

confusion shows that you are putting effort into actually thinking about the concepts

No, confusion shows that the mind has no idea what's going on. Confusion shows you not to trust or entertain thought anymore. You cannot figure this shit out.

[Jodistrict]

6 hours ago, Breathe said:

No, confusion shows that the mind has no idea what's going on. Confusion shows you not to trust or entertain thought anymore. You cannot figure this shit out.

"For God is not a God of confusion but a god of peace" 

    1 Corinthians 14:33