Boys Don't Cry. Girls Do.

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

How is a discussion about women with women, men's issues. Telling women how they are and not trying to hear their pov

There is a place to hear women's POV, but men's need to understand women's behavior is very different from how women understand or explain their own behavior.

It's like trying to understand Putin's behavior by asking him to explain himself. But he will never actually tell you the most crucial things. For example, he will never tell you that he is a corrupt autocrat. That's only something you can know by not listening to him. If all you do is consider Putin's view of himself you will be lost.

Men see women through a bias. But women also see women through a bias. And women see how men should see women through a bias. And women see how men should see men through a bias.

This should not be taken to mean that men should just ignore the feminine view of reality and be purely self-centered, as the manosphere likes to do.

Edited Sunday at 04:56 AM by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I heard you. And don't we all?

Which is why I do not want to argue with your view. You got your feminine view. Express it, as you do, and people will consider it.

Do you call your views "masculine views" and say women have their own counter views so don't take my statements as absolute when giving advice or saying how you think women are? No, you state them, and disagree with any one that counters. When we speak it's a feminine's view, when you speak, it seems to be for both genders. 

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Men see women through a bias. But women also see women through a bias. And women see how men should see women through a bias. And women see how men should see men through a bias.

Yes, I get this but this is just a general statement. So, by your statements we shouldn't listen to what you're saying either, because it's through a bias. So what's the point in even saying anything if it's all biased.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Do you call your views "masculine views" and say women have their own counter views so don't take my statements as absolute when giving advice or saying how you think women are? No, you state them, and disagree with any one that counters. When we speak it's a feminine's view, when you speak, it seems to be for both genders. 

My view is a masculine view.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes, I get this but this is just a general statement. So, by your statements we shouldn't listen to what you're saying either, because it's through a bias. So what's the point in even saying anything if it's all biased.

I share certain insights I had about how to deal with women and how to be a man based on a lot of experience and research. Certain men will find it highly useful. Most women will find it offputting and disagreeable.

Edited Sunday at 04:58 AM by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My view is a masculine view.

Ok, so why when we state our views, it's recognized by you as feminine and not just a view. If a female says something about men that is usually true on a general scale e.g. men love sex, men love beautiful women, men love porn etc, would you say those are feminine views just because a woman said it. Probably not, why do it here where what's happening is we're trying show where there are some misunderstandings about women on a general scale. 

What I'm trying to get at is, it's very easy to dismiss what's been said by calling it a feminine's view and not see where it's just what is the case. Not all women are.......and not every woman will react the same.... and not all women wear make-up for the same reasons etcetc. These aren't just feminine views, just general statements. A feminine view usually is defined by how women usually react to something, see something from their perspective etc, not just making statement that cleats up misunderstandings or that have grouped all or most women into the same category. 

[manuel bon]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course women can teach stuff about women. But women also give a lot of misleading advice which is counter-productive to becoming a strong man, getting results, and even understanding women.

What's a strong man to you, if I can ask?

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

If a female says something about men that is usually true on a general scale e.g. men love sex, men love beautiful women, men love porn etc, would you say those are feminine views just because a woman said it.

It comes down to the specifics of what is being said. The stuff that is like common facts are not generally at issue. The stuff that people argue over is the stuff that hinges on feminine vs masculine view.

Should men cry? There's gonna be a masculine and feminine view of that.

I don't deny the feminine view. It has its place. Just depends on how it is applied, for whom, for what purpose.

Edited Sunday at 05:24 AM by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I share certain insights I had about how to deal with women and how to be a man based on a lot of experience and research. Certain men will find it highly useful. Most women will find it offputting and disagreeable.

There's a discrepancy here. The men are trying to deal with women with the same information women will find off-putting and disagreeable. It seems the only use it has is to disagree with women and for their relations to be off-putting.

Idk, but I've listened to coaches saying things about women that aren't favorable but they aren't off-putting or disagreed with if it's the case. 

[whh2222]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

There are things about being a man that men will only learn from men.

Imagine if we men kept trying to tell you women how to be women. It would be silly.

Bingo. It's like reverse mansplaining. 

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Should men cry? There's gonna be a masculine and feminine view of that.

That's true, but both genders will also disagree with certain points made in the affirmative or it's opposite. I've heard men say yes, and no and females saying yes and no. If a man says yes men should cry and a woman says yes, men should cry, where's the difference in the genders' views. You see, it mostly depends on the person's pov, than the gender of the person making the statement. 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

The men are trying to deal with women with the same information women will find off-putting and disagreeable. It seems the only use it has is to disagree with women and for their relations to be off-putting.

That doesn't follow.

There are many harsh and difficult truths in life which the mind finds offputting and disagreeable. But there is much use to knowing it.

Edited Sunday at 05:30 AM by Leo Gura

[whh2222]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

That's true, but both genders will also disagree with certain points made in the affirmative or it's opposite. I've heard men say yes, and no and females saying yes and no. If a man says yes men should cry and a woman says yes, men should cry, where's the difference in the genders' views. You see, it mostly depends on the person's pov, than the gender of the person making the statement. 

masculine and feminine aren't gender exclusive. Of course a more feminine man would say it's okay to cry. Would most women want to be with a feminine man? Doesn't seem like it from my perspective. 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

That's true, but both genders will also disagree with certain points made in the affirmative or it's opposite. I've heard men say yes, and no and females saying yes and no. If a man says yes men should cry and a woman says yes, men should cry, where's the difference in the genders' views. You see, it mostly depends on the person's pov, than the gender of the person making the statement. 

Most of you ladies here clearly have a distinct feminine view of things. I shouldn't need to explain this.

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That doesn't follow.

There are many harsh and difficult truths in life which the mind finds offputting and disagreeable. But there is much use to such information.

Ok, I get that. I guess the difference is what's being shared. It comes down to specifics. 

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Most of you ladies here clearly have a distinct feminine view of things. I shouldn't need to explain this.

.....and vice versa. Like I said earlier it all comes down to what's being expressed and the subject at hand. It just seems the men like to stick to their views and believe it's the case all-round while not considering that it could just be how they look at things and maybe it's not really the case.

Edited Sunday at 05:38 AM by Princess Arabia

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a place to hear women's POV, but men's need to understand women's behavior is very different from how women understand or explain their own behavior.

It's like the difference between understanding Putin's behavior by asking him to explain himself. But he will never actually tell you the most crucual things. For example, he will never tell you that he is a corrupt autocrat. That's only something you can know by not listening to him. If all you do is consider Putin's view of himself you will be lost.

This isn't the issue. The issue is the skewed narratives and how that creates problems when people get locked into them.

Of course men will have to understand practically how to approach women. And that's going to be different than the way women describe what they want.

The same is true on the opposite foot. If you take men at face value when they say what they want, it's not going to lead to good results.

There's a difference between what men consciously want and what men fall in love with. And it's important for women to know this to avoid getting confused and using the wrong "strategies" (if you could call them that). 

It might feel straightforward to think, "Well, men like beautiful woman, so if I make myself as pretty as possible the guy I"m dating will want to commit to me." or "Men like sex, so if I'm amazing at sex, the guy I'm dating will want to commit to me." 

And it's true. Men really do like sex and the physical appearance of women. 

And I've seen guys on here (once or twice) give advice to women about making themselves more physically attractive to have better chances at a guy committing to them because they were perceiving "Well, that's what I want. So I'm giving great advice."

But men aren't actually moved to commitment through physical appearance or sex. They're just really focused on those things because the attraction phase is exciting to them.

Instead, men fall in love through...

• Giving and being appreciated for the giving and doing challenging things to "win" the affections of the Beloved.
• Having space held for them to express their feelings when things are difficult.
• Being able to vicariously experience embodied feeling by proxy of the woman speaking vulnerably and directly about emotions and feeling states that are arising (both positive and negative) that he may typically feel disconnected from.

And all three of these "strategies" have to do with receptivity... while giving sex, beauty, food, cleaning, etc. are all about giving, which is a Masculine energy.

And men don't fall in love being given what they want because it puts them in the Feminine role... even though many male fantasies are about being the in the Feminine Beloved state where lots of women are adoring them.

But women often just take what men say at face value about what they like and think it is a good strategy... and they try to give to men because they're projecting their desire to be given to.

It's a lot like giving someone a Christmas gift that you want for yourself but that the other person isn't interested in at all.

So, I understand that concept. And that's never been my issue.

My issue is how these understandings get taken as gospel to the point where a person is operating off of kernels to truth woven together with the yarn of falsehood. 

[Princess Arabia]

14 minutes ago, whh2222 said:

masculine and feminine aren't gender exclusive. Of course a more feminine man would say it's okay to cry. Would most women want to be with a feminine man? Doesn't seem like it from my perspective. 

Some women will not view a man as feminine just because he's shed some tears. If a man is masculine all-round and sheds tears on occasion, for reasons that doesn't diminish his masculinity, it doesn't mean all of a sudden he's feminine or we see him as such. If he cries over his lolipop being snatched from his hands VS his aunt dying or he lost his well-paying job, there's a difference. It is too general to just say masculine men don't cry. Sometimes a man can even seem more masculine if he cries when his woman has been hurt or his mother has been wounded. A mature woman that knows masculinity in a man and can recognize it when she's around that energy will not flinch over some well-needed tears from that man, infact, it can strengthen the bond. Everything comes down to who is looking.

Edited Sunday at 05:48 AM by Princess Arabia

[whh2222]

7 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Some women will not view a man as feminine just because he's shed some tears. If a man is masculine all-round and sheds tears on occasion, for reasons that doesn't diminish his masculinity, it doesn't mean all of a sudden he's feminine orvwe see him as such. If he cries over his lolipop being snatched from his hands VS his aunt dying or he lost his well-paying job, there's a difference. It is too general to just say masculine men don't cry. Sometimes a man can even seem more masculine if he cries when his woman has been hurt or his mother has been wounded. A mature woman that knows masculinity in a man and can recognize it when she's around that energy will not flinch over some well needed tears from that man, infact it can strengthen the bond. Everything comes down to who is looking.

I'm not against men crying. But I would definitely think twice about when it would be acceptable around my partner, and I definitely wouldn't trust that it's acceptable just because you personally think it is. 

Edited Sunday at 05:54 AM by whh2222

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Instead, men fall in love through...

• Giving and being appreciated for the giving and doing challenging things to "win" the affections of the Beloved.
• Having space held for them to express their feelings when things are difficult.
• Being able to vicariously experience embodied feeling by proxy of the woman speaking vulnerably and directly about emotions and feeling states that are arising (both positive and negative) that he may typically feel disconnected from.

And all three of these "strategies" have to do with receptivity... while giving sex, beauty, food, cleaning, etc. are all about giving, which is a Masculine energy.

And men don't fall in love being given what they want

Highly dubious claims that reek of feminine projection, of what women wish were true.