Boys Don't Cry. Girls Do.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

27 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

So you don’t care about the fertility rate? 
 

What am I supposed to say? How can I take you seriously and respond 

 

This is precisely  why women and weak men shouldn’t be allowed to make major decisions. It will lead to our extinction 

No it is me who is strong and you who is weak. Because you are a slave

[Twentyfirst]

44 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

No it is me who is strong and you who is weak. Because you are a slave

I don’t mind being a slave. I enjoy being part of a selfless society where people understand that their small choices can affect others in big ways. It takes strength to be cohesive 

You guys started this bullshit gender war and we all gave you a couple decades of free roaming but obviously it doesn’t work so now we are gonna fight for our future. We were here first. While you are debating if female hamsters should have the same rights as male hamsters and whether or not the male hamster is an oppressive monster from the hamster patriarchy other people are actually advancing. Actually we are much more open minded than you. Even when presented with the collapse and extinction of all people you are still stubborn in your shady ways 

 

Edited Sunday at 03:09 PM by Twentyfirst

[Jirh]

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

But in general, the more you try to give to a man, the more it will repel him.

And the more he gives and is appreciated for his giving, the more invested he gets.

So if you want the best possible chances for a man to fall in love with you... ask him to help you solve concrete problems. And then appreciate him for helping. And talk to him about how loved, supported, etc. it makes you feel. 

Man here, and I confirm that this is 100% true.

The ex that I loved the most (still love) was the one that did just that. She would break (repairable) things on purpose and call me to fix them. She was a master at creating a damsel in distress situations.

Edited Sunday at 03:42 PM by Jirh

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

43 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

I don’t mind being a slave. I enjoy being part of a selfless society where people understand that their small choices can affect others in big ways. It takes strength to be cohesive 

You guys started this bullshit gender war and we all gave you a couple decades of free roaming but obviously it doesn’t work so now we are gonna fight for our future. We were here first. While you are debating if female hamsters should have the same rights as male hamsters and whether or not the male hamster is an oppressive monster from the hamster patriarchy other people are actually advancing. Actually we are much more open minded than you. Even when presented with the collapse and extinction of all people you are still stubborn in your shady ways 

 

First of all, stop lumping me in with the feminists when I'm clearly not messing with these people at all. Second of all, the crisis of birth rates is caused first and foremost by capitalism. Progressive leftist liberalism and feminism are really just a secondary if not tertiary factors. But yes they are of course still major factors. But I'm pretty sure the so called feminist women would also start popping out babies if we returned to a baby boomer era type of economy, which was probably the best economic era of all times.

Adopting boomer mindset is the opposite of being open minded

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

I don’t have a woman yet. The way it works is I simply wait until I am ready and then I have an arranged marriage. Until then I don’t speak or hook up with women that aren’t my relatives 

Hmmm... a "wealth" of wisdom about relationships from someone who never had one. And a "wealth" of wisdom about women from someone who doesn't even interact with women. Go figure.

Also, please don't hook up with your relatives.

I had a male client of mine from Saudi Arabia in a region where men and women weren't allowed to interact unless they were married or family.... and women have significantly fewer rights than men do.

Because of this, (and this is no judgment to him because I recognize the difficult position he was in) he was secretly hooking up with his cousin because she was the most distant relative that he was allowed to interact with.

And he wasn't ready yet for an arranged marriage because he feared he wouldn't be able to find a woman who shares his values because he's not allowed to really get to know the woman before marriage.

So, the main thing we were focusing on when we worked together is to try to find a way to work within those oppressive rules of the society to find a compatible marriage partner so that he's not just going in blind.

So no. People are often incredibly unhappy under oppressive systems.

I've also worked with people in really strict religious communities that feel/felt really boxed in as well. And these communities are often rife with trauma and abuse because of the repression that people need to do just to fit into a strict system.

[Twentyfirst]

1 minute ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

First of all, stop lumping me in with the feminists when I'm clearly not messing with these people at all. Second of all, the crisis of birth rates is caused first and foremost by capitalism. Progressive leftist liberalism and feminism are really just a secondary if not tertiary factors. But yes they are of course still major factors. But I'm pretty sure the so called feminist women would also start popping out babies if we returned to a baby boomer era type of economy, which was probably the best economic era of all times.

Adopting boomer mindset is the opposite of being open minded

It’s not about money at all. The poorest people are having the most babies. People have babies in times of war. Feminism started in 1850s or something way before any of this and traditional households have been going on for thousands of years before boomers

Even if you were all rich you would just become more selfish and careless than you are today. Duh. You would demand even more freedom to hate the and demonize the opposite sex without ever coming together with real solutions that benefit both parties and the children 

 

Why did feminism start in certain countries but was never taken seriously in other countries? What is it that’s so wrong with those men that the women felt the need to rebel so harshly 

Heres what I think. They say that they needed to rebel from traditionalism because it doesn’t work but what really happened was traditionalism didn’t work because you rebelled. It only works if you do it correctly 
 

[Twentyfirst]

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Hmmm... a "wealth" of wisdom about relationships from someone who never had one. And a "wealth" of wisdom about women from someone who doesn't even interact with women. Go figure.

Also, please don't hook up with your relatives.

I had a male client of mine from Saudi Arabia in a region where men and women weren't allowed to interact unless they were married or family.... and women have significantly fewer rights than men do.

Because of this, (and this is no judgment to him because I recognize the difficult position he was in) he was secretly hooking up with his cousin because she was the most distant relative that he was allowed to interact with.

And he wasn't ready yet for an arranged marriage because he feared he wouldn't be able to find a woman who shares his values because he's not allowed to really get to know the woman before marriage.

So, the main thing we were focusing on when we worked together is to try to find a way to work within those oppressive rules of the society to find a compatible marriage partner so that he's not just going in blind.

So no. People are often incredibly unhappy under oppressive systems.

I've also worked with people in really strict religious communities that feel/felt really boxed in as well. And these communities are often rife with trauma and abuse because of the repression that people need to do just to fit into a strict system.

Your nuts

My background is watching and learning from MUCH more successful relationships. You have no idea how serious family is for us and how well organized of a machine it is. It’s like a Fortune 500 company

Saudi women have much more politic and business rights than you! They are owners not employees. They are respected not objectified. You are the one who is struggling and I’m not surprised at all 

It’s okay to marry a cousin as long as they do it correctly. They have to skip a few generations and keep it scientific 

 

Your client did it wrong. He should have trusted the system. You don’t need to get to know them more than a couple months. Since he went out of bounds he suffered

Edited Sunday at 04:05 PM by Twentyfirst

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Your nuts

My background is watching and learning from MUCH more successful relationships. You have no idea how serious family is for us and how well organized of a machine it is. It’s like a Fortune 500 company

Saudi women have much more politic and business rights than you! They are owners not employees. They are respected not objectified. You are the one who is struggling and I’m not surprised at all 

It’s okay to marry a cousin as long as they do it correctly. They have to skip a few generations and keep it scientific 

Your client did it wrong. He should have trusted the system. You don’t need to get to know them more than a couple months. Since he went out of bounds he suffered

Listen, I have no judgment if you feel like you're in society where your best option is to marry your cousin. It's just genetically unhealthy for the kids so you may want to consider marrying outside of the family for the sake of the kids.

And relationship skills cannot be learned just by watching others. Once you get married, if you let go of these security blanket ideas, you will realize how much you currently misunderstand about a relationship and women.

You seem to hold on tightly to them because you want to have a solid sense that you're doing things the right way. And you want to get a sense that all the world's problems will be solved if you just trust the authority figures and submit to the rules and systems.

But most people cannot live their lives under an oppressive system without dealing with extreme levels of psychological stress and disempowerment.

It's very likely why you have the views of women that you have in the first place. You feel disempowered because you've been forced into submission, and now the only source of power you can find is to entertain narratives of forcing women into submission.

But the women in your power fantasy really represent you and how you actually feel about the system you're in. 

[gambler]

21 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It's very likely why you have the views of women that you have in the first place. You feel disempowered because you've been forced into submission, and now the only source of power you can find is to entertain narratives of forcing women into submission.

But the women in your power fantasy really represent you and how you actually feel about the system you're in. 

This is true for a conservative minded person within a liberal society. Under a liberal society you feel like you’ve been forced into submission. And you feel disempowered beyond belief. But what happens isn’t that you create power dynamics, you withdraw and become suicidal. Under a conservative society however, it neither feels disempowering nor as if you submitted yourself to anything. Let alone being forced. It feels like it empowers you to be your natural authentic self. I’d also caution about the use of anecdotes. Human experiences are very varied. Growing up in Canada, a lot of the girls in my neighborhood were looking for guys to run trains on them. But this level of extreme sex addiction is uncommon, or at least I hope it is. And that’s important to note versus putting it out there as if this is a common thing. 

Edited Sunday at 04:42 PM by gambler

[ryandesreu]

On 1/1/2025 at 6:35 PM, Jannes said:

That sounds very outdated from a stage greens perspective. 

I appreciate that being though was an important survival function. But nowadays is it as important in all jobs and domains in life?

Of course a police men should probably be though but imagine a programmer or a social worker guy, should they not be allowed to cry? 

This is actually a stage blue and orange view on sobbing but maybe as you rise up to unicorn this perspective returns.

"Boys don't cry" is something I was told by my peers as a second grader. With that said I have gone very long periods without tears but I recently returned to grade school due to devastation. 

Edited Sunday at 05:46 PM by ryandesreu

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, gambler said:

This is true for a conservative minded person within a liberal society. Under a liberal society you feel like you’ve been forced into submission. And you feel disempowered beyond belief. But what happens isn’t that you create power dynamics, you withdraw and become suicidal. Under a conservative society however, it neither feels disempowering nor as if you submitted yourself to anything. Let alone being forced. It feels like it empowers you to be your natural authentic self. I’d also caution about the use of anecdotes. Human experiences are very varied. Growing up in Canada, a lot of the girls in my neighborhood were looking for guys to run trains on them. But this level of extreme sex addiction is uncommon, or at least I hope it is. And that’s important to note versus putting it out there as if this is a common thing. 

Let me offer some nuance.

I have worked with people from 35 different countries. And with that, I've also worked with people from extremely conservative religious backgrounds.

And humans are humans no mater where you go. That same exact psychological forces are at play.

And someone who has individuated past a certain point cannot live in an extremely oppressive system without extreme psychological distress... like a goldfish that's outgrown the size of the bowl.

Though pre-individuated people need such a system and they need more absolutes or the uncertainty feels overwhelming. And they need to have the sense that they're doing the absolute right thing... because if they really question it, they will begin to individuate and expand... and they will no longer fit into the narrower system.

And this can create all sorts of issues with belonging and social cohesion if everyone they know is pre-individuated and they begin to individuate. So, people hold onto dogma and absolutist worldviews as the necessary glue to hold their social circle together and to avoid wandering too far from the flock and interrupting their ability to belong.

And this sacrifices things like autonomy and authenticity for the sake of connection and belonging, which is a natural choice for humans to make when faced with either choice because it's very painful to be the goldfish that's too big for the bowl.

My very close friend grew up in a small Mormon town in Canada where 95% of people were Mormon. And he was always a deep thinking person. He's definitely someone who tends towards expansion as he is a natural teacher and has the mind of a medicine man.

But he was deeply interested in all things Mormonism (still is, even though he identifies as ex-Mormon). And he would study Mormon apologetics where the author would try to square the circle about how Mormon beliefs are in alignment with science and history.

That way, Mormons were able to learn about science and history and other topics without undermining their beliefs. And it serves the purpose of cementing in the Mormon worldview as well.

And he devoured absolutely every book he could find on the topic of Mormonism... except one book.

In retrospect, he said there was something about the book that he knew if he read it, his worldview would deconstruct. But he created other rationales for why he needed to avoid the book.

But eventually, his worldview did deconstruct as he was the fish that outgrew the bowl. And there were losses, though he didn't lose any close family members. But he'd never choose to undo that because he's more authentic now and much more in touch with his natural genius.

For those who individuate, the individuation is worth it.

And I think he had an easier time individuating than people from other fundamentalist religious sects because all Mormon men go on 2 year missions when they graduate from high school. So, there's a lot of interaction with non-Mormons during that time.

But for those who are very settled in their religious community, it's more difficult when someone gets the call towards individuation.

For example, I have a client of mine from a very strict religious sect in the US. 

And he has always been naturally geared towards individuation. But he has kept it a secret.

And he describes the way he copes with his role in society by keeping the outside in keeping with the sect's expectations... but the inside of him is under renovation.

Like a building that keeps the same facade... but is undergoing a huge transformation internally. But he is constantly struggling with feeling trapped. 

But he know his duty to put on the facade because it will mess up career and marriage opportunities for his children and grandchildren.

The same was true for the guy from Saudi Arabia that I mentioned. He had very progressive view but had to keep them very "hush hush" or major negative social consequences could befall him and his family by extension.

So, being an individuated person in a narrow system sucks because you're the goldfish that's too big for the bowl, and it is lonely. But it's also empowering and more authentic. And you know yourself a lot more and develop higher degrees of sovereignty.

Being an un-individuated person in a society that is oriented towards greater degrees of individuation also sucks because you don't have the absolute authorities and systems to turn to for support, and you always have to be holding on tightly to your views because there are so many sources of information and other worldviews that could threaten the absolute nature of your beliefs and cause you to individuate and become disconnected from your society.

But there is no right or wrong here. Individuation is just the next thing that unfolds from the unindividuated state. 

And nature is moving in the direction of higher degrees of individuation for human beings because it's necessary for humanity's collective evolution.

But not every person needs to individuate. People can embrace the limitations of stricter system if it's what they want. But not everyone is capable of living in such a system because they have already individuated and expanded past the boundary-lines of those systems.

To me, living in within such a system would require me to need to disown 80% of myself... or at least give the appearance of having done so. So, I'm pretty adamant against the idea that these systems will benefit everyone because you'd be cutting the limbs off of 50%+ of people just to fit us into the old ways.

But if you feel more comfortable in a limited system and avoiding the individuation process, then be sure to hold tightly to dogma, don't question things to much, and move to a place with a more authoritarian system if you don't already live in one.

Also, don't think too deeply on what you just read as it may expand your worldview past the degree that you'd want to expand it. So, if that's not something you want, you can use cognitive dissonance to discredit me and think of me as a silly person for even considering that this perspective is true.

 

Edited Sunday at 05:51 PM by Emerald

[ryandesreu]

let it all out bro

 

[Twentyfirst]

56 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Listen, I have no judgment if you feel like you're in society where your best option is to marry your cousin. It's just genetically unhealthy for the kids so you may want to consider marrying outside of the family for the sake of the kids.

I didn't say whether or not I would marry a cousin. Btw I actually won't do that

56 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And relationship skills cannot be learned just by watching others. Once you get married, if you let go of these security blanket ideas, you will realize how much you currently misunderstand about a relationship and women.

Women from these feminist countries actually love me. They say I am a breath of fresh air. I had a Dutch girl literally just a few weeks ago tell me that she liked my way of claiming ownership and she wished that I wasn't waiting for marriage to have sex. How the other men are too feminized and take equality too far and she feels unsafe. How all they care about is sex and using her. I can screenshot the messages. This has happened so many times I can't even count. Even the hardcore feminists pretend to get angry at what I say but at the end of the day they have a hidden smile when I scream at them to make me a sandwich. But yeah there are some things I won't know until I am actually in that relationship but don't worry about me. I got it handled and me and my wife's families will take care of us as well.

56 minutes ago, Emerald said:

You seem to hold on tightly to them because you want to have a solid sense that you're doing things the right way.

Have you ever even spoken to a Saudi woman? Not the small percentage that run away (every society has people that run away even kids run away from their loving parents) but an actual member of that society. No you place yourself higher in a superior position and them an in inferior as helpless and thoughtless and they don’t know how to take care of themselves and your protests from your free society are their only path to salvation. There’s no reason to talk to them because you already know how oppressed they are so what’s the point. After all you have coached thousands of people. You have to gaslight yourself until the end of time to keep your head above water making all sorts of ideas of patriarchy and oppression and control and social constructs meanwhile everything is crumbling around you. If you go outside there are no pregnant women with baby strollers and kids running around. It’s just lonely people with headphones in zooming to their next destination. No communities where everyone puts there money in to a fund to contribute to some higher project. Just people spending money on addictions and items to mask the pain of a broken family structure. Sure there are some of those communities still left but they are all being beaten down one by one. All this because you don’t want to obey the man who is actually far more logical than your emotional lens way of looking at the world. Nice Job. Im not crazy for thinking I have a better grasp or way of doing things. I don’t make assumptions about your society it’s posted all over the internet for the whole world to see and it’s the majority of the people not the minority of run aways and it’s not government propaganda because it’s actual civilians  posting it literally begging for help and crying. Again so sad. The Andrew Tate phenomena will be studied for a long time thankfully it’s all saved on camera. Everything you say about these oppressed societies is either proven government propaganda or horror stories from minority run aways or simply dysfunctional families within the grander society. You think that Saudi women can't have iPhones and VPNs to post tik toks? Why is it all the feminism/red pill coming only from select places

56 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And you want to get a sense that all the world's problems will be solved if you just trust the authority figures and submit to the rules and systems.

I’m not saying to trust BLINDLY. Can’t you see what has been working or failing with your own eyes? But yes believe it or not society is better off without anarchy. If it is genuinely a corrupt society then feel free to revolt. But accept the consequences of that revolution. They don't always end pleasant 

56 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But most people cannot live their lives under an oppressive system without dealing with extreme levels of psychological stress and disempowerment.

Who said it's oppressive? Something you need to realize about these societies is they are mostly self regulated. Even if the leaders “freed” all women they would probably just do the same old thing. There are some crazy rules that when the leaders abandon it the people are glad but it’s not what you think. Even if the leaders abandon religion the people would still practice it. Maybe you have seen videos of these people getting bombed but still taking the time to pray five times a day. If these Saudi royals freed women....well free them from what exactly? And free them into what new system? You simply don’t know what you don’t know until you humble yourself enough to learn from it.

I’m far away from this gender war but I’m so tired about hearing about all this unnessecary gender problems and solutions. It’s a miracle the feminists/redpillers/and traditional people have been able to control their anger for so long and that it’s only debating online. It's actually a war between masculine men, masculine women, feminized men, and feminine women. Somehow they haven't all ripped each other to shreds yet. Who is really dealing with extreme levels of stress and disempowerment? How can you even function and advance as a whole if you are debating whether or not men should wear red or pink shade lipstick? It literally makes no sense to have that system voluntarily 

56 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It's very likely why you have the views of women that you have in the first place.

That I believe women are biologically programmed and would find their highest fulfillment to be baby making machines for men  I guess I am wrong because then we will miss out on Nicole Tesla and Tabitha Edison. What about Elona Musk? All those lost inventions. All that lost progress. Oh dear god, no!  

Theres always been Hillary Clintons of the world who are actually better off doing other things but you don't need to change the law or have feminism to do that. Was Cleopatra only allowed to do what she did thanks to women's suffrage? Which came first anyways

56 minutes ago, Emerald said:

 

You feel disempowered because you've been forced into submission, and now the only source of power you can find is to entertain narratives of forcing women into submission.

I’m not forced into any submission. I have complete choice over my life. I can leave my country at any time as I have passports to live and work almost anywhere in the world and I’m a man so I can marry any woman I want and my family is very lenient on me . There are 3 structures in place in every society when it comes to marriage. 4 if you count economy but that doesn't actually matter. The 3 are religion politics and culture. I feel extremely free in these institutions and I don’t worry about the future and I actually have a hopeful planned and almost guranteeed future. Im not a doomer. Im not just praying for an Andrew Tate savior or the equivalent female role model. 

My only source of power is forcing submission on a woman? Wrong again. Thats what men do when they have been stripped of their power. I am still allowed to be a man in my society and I can say what I want without getting banned. I was Andrew Tate before Tate was Tate. Again where do you think he got all his ideas? But he is not a good ambassador for them. Women here are taught to submit at an early age and they see the value in it. Just like how women over there are taught to rebel at an early age from feminism but where is the value in that? Nobody is being forced into anything. Thats crazy to think that entire populations of people would participate in a society of force. 

56 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But the women in your power fantasy really represent you and how you actually feel about the system you're in. 

The system I am in women have just as much power. Just not in the same way. They have power according to their role and biology just like the man. There are 3 options. It's either the men are gonna fight and the women are gonna stay home. The women will fight and the men will stay home. Or they will both do each equally. I think Traditional ways of life are just more honest about who does what the best. And we aren't rules by exceptions. So if one or two women are actually better fighters we would never put that pressure and responsibility on the rest of them who want nothing to do with it. 

How many more years of gender dissection until it’s finally solved? We have seen where it has gotten us today and we will disagree but what about the plan for the future. Is there an opportunity cost plan or just however long it takes no matter the cost? Let’s say men start to cry, okay. Will that be enough or will you just want more and more? At what point do you think it will be okay? And how will you know when it’s finally ok and then the change can stop? And what if the change does happen by ten years time but it still doesn’t work? Do you have a plan in place for that too? Whats the end goal EXACTLY? To make sure men and women are happy? To make sure children are happy? Or forget about happiness and just focus on equality and fairness? 

[gambler]

10 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But if you feel more comfortable in a limited system and avoiding the individuation process, then be sure to hold tightly to dogma, don't question things to much, and move to a place with a more authoritarian system if you don't already live in one. 

I never avoided the individuation process. I went through it. But me as an individual is still very traditional and conservative, not because of avoidance of individuation, but because this is who I genuinely am. 
 

But anyways this reply shouldn’t have been for me. But for the other guy. I wasn’t arguing for/defending any system. 

Edited Sunday at 05:54 PM by gambler

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, gambler said:

I never avoided the individuation process. I went through it. But me as an individual is still very traditional and conservative, not because of avoidance of individuation, but because this is who I genuinely am. 
 

But anyways this reply shouldn’t have been for me. But for the other guy. I wasn’t arguing for/defending any system. 

I was responding to you with what I said. The other guy wrote too long of a message for me to respond to.

[Twentyfirst]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I was responding to you with what I said. The other guy wrote too long of a message for me to respond to.

All you have to do is respond to the last paragraph. Can you answer those questions?

[gambler]

16 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Also, don't think too deeply on what you just read as it may expand your worldview past the degree that you'd want to expand it. So, if that's not something you want, you can use cognitive dissonance to discredit me and think of me as a silly person for even considering that this perspective is true.

You’re stereotyping me. To clue you in, I used to be an atheist, beginning at 14 years old. Since then, I’ve put my entire worldview on the chopping block, and I do so all the time.

[Twentyfirst]

29 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Being an un-individuated person in a society that is oriented towards greater degrees of individuation also sucks because you don't have the absolute authorities and systems to turn to for support, and you always have to be holding on tightly to your views because there are so many sources of information and other worldviews that could threaten the absolute nature of your beliefs and cause you to individuate and become disconnected from your society.

But there is no right or wrong here. Individuation is just the next thing that unfolds from the unindividuated state. 

And nature is moving in the direction of higher degrees of individuation for human beings because it's necessary for humanity's collective evolution.

But not every person needs to individuate. People can embrace the limitations of stricter system if it's what they want. But not everyone is capable of living in such a system because they have already individuated and expanded past the boundary-lines of those systems.

To me, living in within such a system would require me to need to disown 80% of myself... or at least give the appearance of having done so. So, I'm pretty adamant against the idea that these systems will benefit everyone because you'd be cutting the limbs off of 50%+ of people just to fit us into the old ways.

But if you feel more comfortable in a limited system and avoiding the individuation process, then be sure to hold tightly to dogma, don't question things to much, and move to a place with a more authoritarian system if you don't already live in one.

Also, don't think too deeply on what you just read as it may expand your worldview past the degree that you'd want to expand it. So, if that's not something you want, you can use cognitive dissonance to discredit me and think of me as a silly person for even considering that this perspective is true.

 

I hear what you are saying but I think it's a false assumption. For example. How rare is it for someone near you to be on a forum like this? I bet you are the only one. Its not like everyone in your society is on a road to enlightenment and crazy alien awakenings 

Same with me in my society. I am pretty much the only one in proximity 

Both of us are more rare simply because this type of work is rare. Not because we live in an individual or collective society 

The end goal of awakening is to go back into society whether that society is authoritarian or not what does it matter? If you are a buddha you will have fun anywhere and people will enjoy your presence

Edited Sunday at 06:14 PM by Twentyfirst

[Thought Art]

Some girls were crying openly at the rock climbing gym yesterday. 

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

I didn't say whether or not I would marry a cousin. Btw I actually won't do that

Women from these feminist countries actually love me. They say I am a breath of fresh air. I had a Dutch girl literally just a few weeks ago tell me that she liked my way of claiming ownership and she wished that I wasn't waiting for marriage to have sex. How the other men are too feminized and take equality too far and she feels unsafe. How all they care about is sex and using her. I can screenshot the messages. This has happened so many times I can't even count. Even the hardcore feminists pretend to get angry at what I say but at the end of the day they have a hidden smile when I scream at them to make me a sandwich. But yeah there are some things I won't know until I am actually in that relationship but don't worry about me. I got it handled and me and my wife's families will take care of us as well.

Have you ever even spoken to a Saudi woman? Not the small percentage that run away (every society has people that run away even kids run away from their loving parents) but an actual member of that society. No you place yourself higher in a superior position and them an in inferior as helpless and thoughtless and they don’t know how to take care of themselves and your protests from your free society are their only path to salvation. There’s no reason to talk to them because you already know how oppressed they are so what’s the point. After all you have coached thousands of people. You have to gaslight yourself until the end of time to keep your head above water making all sorts of ideas of patriarchy and oppression and control and social constructs meanwhile everything is crumbling around you. If you go outside there are no pregnant women with baby strollers and kids running around. It’s just lonely people with headphones in zooming to their next destination. No communities where everyone puts there money in to a fund to contribute to some higher project. Just people spending money on addictions and items to mask the pain of a broken family structure. Sure there are some of those communities still left but they are all being beaten down one by one. All this because you don’t want to obey the man who is actually far more logical than your emotional lens way of looking at the world. Nice Job. Im not crazy for thinking I have a better grasp or way of doing things. I don’t make assumptions about your society it’s posted all over the internet for the whole world to see and it’s the majority of the people not the minority of run aways and it’s not government propaganda because it’s actual civilians  posting it literally begging for help and crying. Again so sad. The Andrew Tate phenomena will be studied for a long time thankfully it’s all saved on camera. Everything you say about these oppressed societies is either proven government propaganda or horror stories from minority run aways or simply dysfunctional families within the grander society. You think that Saudi women can't have iPhones and VPNs to post tik toks? Why is it all the feminism/red pill coming only from select places

I’m not saying to trust BLINDLY. Can’t you see what has been working or failing with your own eyes? But yes believe it or not society is better off without anarchy. If it is genuinely a corrupt society then feel free to revolt. But accept the consequences of that revolution. They don't always end pleasant 

Who said it's oppressive? Something you need to realize about these societies is they are mostly self regulated. Even if the leaders “freed” all women they would probably just do the same old thing. There are some crazy rules that when the leaders abandon it the people are glad but it’s not what you think. Even if the leaders abandon religion the people would still practice it. Maybe you have seen videos of these people getting bombed but still taking the time to pray five times a day. If these Saudi royals freed women....well free them from what exactly? And free them into what new system? You simply don’t know what you don’t know until you humble yourself enough to learn from it.

I’m far away from this gender war but I’m so tired about hearing about all this unnessecary gender problems and solutions. It’s a miracle the feminists/redpillers/and traditional people have been able to control their anger for so long and that it’s only debating online. It's actually a war between masculine men, masculine women, feminized men, and feminine women. Somehow they haven't all ripped each other to shreds yet. Who is really dealing with extreme levels of stress and disempowerment? How can you even function and advance as a whole if you are debating whether or not men should wear red or pink shade lipstick? It literally makes no sense to have that system voluntarily 

That I believe women are biologically programmed and would find their highest fulfillment to be baby making machines for men  I guess I am wrong because then we will miss out on Nicole Tesla and Tabitha Edison. What about Elona Musk? All those lost inventions. All that lost progress. Oh dear god, no!  

Theres always been Hillary Clintons of the world who are actually better off doing other things but you don't need to change the law or have feminism to do that. Was Cleopatra only allowed to do what she did thanks to women's suffrage? Which came first anyways

I’m not forced into any submission. I have complete choice over my life. I can leave my country at any time as I have passports to live and work almost anywhere in the world and I’m a man so I can marry any woman I want and my family is very lenient on me . There are 3 structures in place in every society when it comes to marriage. 4 if you count economy but that doesn't actually matter. The 3 are religion politics and culture. I feel extremely free in these institutions and I don’t worry about the future and I actually have a hopeful planned and almost guranteeed future. Im not a doomer. Im not just praying for an Andrew Tate savior or the equivalent female role model. 

My only source of power is forcing submission on a woman? Wrong again. Thats what men do when they have been stripped of their power. I am still allowed to be a man in my society and I can say what I want without getting banned. I was Andrew Tate before Tate was Tate. Again where do you think he got all his ideas? But he is not a good ambassador for them. Women here are taught to submit at an early age and they see the value in it. Just like how women over there are taught to rebel at an early age from feminism but where is the value in that? Nobody is being forced into anything. Thats crazy to think that entire populations of people would participate in a society of force. 

The system I am in women have just as much power. Just not in the same way. They have power according to their role and biology just like the man. There are 3 options. It's either the men are gonna fight and the women are gonna stay home. The women will fight and the men will stay home. Or they will both do each equally. I think Traditional ways of life are just more honest about who does what the best. And we aren't rules by exceptions. So if one or two women are actually better fighters we would never put that pressure and responsibility on the rest of them who want nothing to do with it. 

How many more years of gender dissection until it’s finally solved? We have seen where it has gotten us today and we will disagree but what about the plan for the future. Is there an opportunity cost plan or just however long it takes no matter the cost? Let’s say men start to cry, okay. Will that be enough or will you just want more and more? At what point do you think it will be okay? And how will you know when it’s finally ok and then the change can stop? And what if the change does happen by ten years time but it still doesn’t work? Do you have a plan in place for that too? Whats the end goal EXACTLY? To make sure men and women are happy? To make sure children are happy? Or forget about happiness and just focus on equality and fairness? 

This is a very long post. I won't hit every point. 

But the reality is that you're inexperienced with relationships. But you want to feel like you're the expert when you're in the stage of unconscious incompetence about them. You're a Dunning Kruger on this topic.

And just because some Dutch girl liked you and was turned on by the idea of being dominated, isn't proof that women love it when you "scream at them to make you a sandwich".

But no need to screenshot the messages. I tend to enjoy taking the submissive role in the bedroom. So, it isn't surprising to me at all that she's turned on by that. Lots of women are. I've had sexy conversations like that before where it's basically playing up that male dominant female submissive sexual dynamic to spice things up.

But if she's young and inexperienced, she might have a romanticized notion of what it's like to actually be submissive in a relationship and might tend to over-glamorize or sexify it. And she will likely feel disappointed by how it actually is if she has no space to be seen and heard as herself (which means her expressing her opinions that differ from yours and even engaging in conflicts with you, as these are what's necessary to have connected intimate relationship. 

And if your version of dominance is shouting at her to make you a sandwich, you might be quite surprised when doesn't put up with it... because it isn't supplying the intimacy and spiciness that she's looking for from the male dominance fantasy. And instead she's getting the very stifling and lonely reality of being dominated. 

And I know this because I've been there before. Being in a relationship with a power imbalance squeezes all the joy out of life. 

And I've had 3 male clients and 1 female client from Saudi Arabia. But only the guy I mentioned was native born Saudi Arabian. One guy was Nigerian and living there for work, the other guy was Indian, and the woman was Turkish but lived in Saudi Arabia during some of her childhood and teen years. 

The only guy I talked about Saudi Arabia with is the native born Saudi guy. And so it is only his example that I have to go off of. I don't have a specific focus towards Saudi people.

Just your comment about only hooking up with female family members and the strong patriarchal ways of thinking about thing, reminded me of conversations he and I have had. And I used it as an example.

I'm still not 100% sure though your reaction makes me think that it's probably the case. Are you Saudi Arabian? 

And I do not elevate myself above Saudi Arabian women. But I do feel grateful that I was raised in a more egalitarian society, and I would not choose to trade places as it would be very challenging to live within the confines my client described.

But it's not just Saudi Arabia, it's any society that has very rigid roles... as the roles for women would feel unlivable to me and would kill my spirit.

But the client that I mentioned had said the new prince (at the time, new) was a bit more progressive and was passing laws allowing women to drive. But this was 4 years ago or so. 

So, it seems that Saudi is progressing towards higher degrees of female sovereignty in this sense.