Dismissing criticisms of wokeness =/= being developed

[Hardkill]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It does harm me in the sense of higher taxes and such.

All those Covid checks that Biden and Trump sent out -- I got zero.

If I was voting purely to max my personal gain I would vote Trump.

but the more help those in need get the less likely those people will come after you for your wealth out of anger and desperation and the less likely they will hate you.

Edited Thursday at 03:50 AM by Hardkill

[Buck Edwards]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It does harm me in the sense of higher taxes and such.

All those Covid checks that Biden and Trump sent out -- I got zero.

If I was voting purely to max my personal gain I would vote Trump.

There's nothing wrong if you did something for personal gain, is there? 

Some people vote for the whole society. Seems like conscious politics. 

Others vote for personal gain. In fact most do. Would you call it unconscious politics? But looking for one's personal gain is not unconscious necessarily, just fair play. As humans, we first look for what benefits us. This is not an unconscious pattern, it's a need. 

 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

but the more help those in need get the less likely those people will come after you for your wealth out of anger and desperation and the less likely they will hate you.

There is no risk of someone going after me for my wealth. If anything people would hate me for my liberal views, so for personal gain and security I ought to be a Republican.

Edited Thursday at 03:56 AM by Leo Gura

[Quader]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

for personal gain and security I ought to be a Republican.

In your particular position  I honestly feel the betrayal felt by your fans would be a bit frightening in terms of their disillusionment. It would be truly diabolical. You're an icon to me because every chance you have to sink your teeth in you don't manipulate for some bullshit end. To many I assume they would watch you to see if you're a cult leader or not and being flagrant with your wealthy position would not at all be a safer decision. Purely on paper sure.

[Leo Gura]

I should become a Trump supporter just as performance art.

[Buck Edwards]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I should become a Trump supporter just as performance art.

You mean to say that for practical purposes you don't support Trump but Authentically you would? 

[Quader]

I should become a trump supporter just as a performance art

@Leo Gura That would be fucking hilarious 

Edited Thursday at 05:01 AM by Quader
Shouldn't have used @, just a quote

[Basman]

Extreme woke brainrot is mostly centered in echochambers on the net (Reddit, Twitter, etc.). Those beliefs don't tend to survive contact with oxygen. Progressive politicians are in practice not "that" woke comparatively, focusing primarily on real economic issues, like previous comments pointed out.

Green parties however tend to be impractical and overly idealistic in my opinion. Incapable of compromising with conservatives in order to influence politics. More about the image of progressiveness than the actual nitty gritty of politics. Like banning diesel cars in city centers so everyone has to drive electric when the technology isn't ready yet for mass adoption. They had to temporarily freeze fining people for driving diesel in Amsterdam because its simply not possible for everyone to drive electric. But that's not really something you see in America cause you don't have a multiple party system.

Edited Thursday at 07:50 AM by Basman

[SwiftQuill]

42 minutes ago, Basman said:

Extreme woke brainrot is mostly centered in echochambers on the net (Reddit, Twitter, etc.). Those beliefs don't tend to survive contact with oxygen. Progressive politicians are in practice not "that" woke comparatively, focusing primarily on real economic issues, like previous comments pointed out.

Green parties however tend to be impractical and overly idealistic in my opinion. Incapable of compromising with conservatives in order to influence politics. More about the image of progressiveness than the actual nitty gritty of politics. Like banning diesel cars in city centers so everyone has to drive electric when the technology isn't ready yet for mass adoption. They had to temporarily freeze fining people for driving diesel in Amsterdam because its simply not possible for everyone to drive electric. But that's not really something you see in America cause you don't have a multiple party system.

I'm happy you think that those wokies mostly exist on Twitter. Personally I know many people like that irl, which is why I'm particularly pissed off at the ideology.

As for green policies, those I find sad. I owned an electric vehicle for 2 years and unfortunately I think it's not the solution. Electric vehicles are pretty much a scam.

Climate change and environment is a topic I fully care about and I often wonder what we can do as a collective to improve there.

Meanwhile woke Hollywood celebrities who own jets like to say men are the privileged class and selfish for not taking in the wokeness ideology. It's a pet peeve of mine to see that hypocrisy.

[Hardkill]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no risk of someone going after me for my wealth. If anything people would hate me for my liberal views, so for personal gain and security I ought to be a Republican.

Well, don't get too rich. 

Hatred for rich people has reached historically high levels, with a growing number of Americans expressing resentment towards wealth inequality and the perceived excesses of the wealthy elite.

Edited Thursday at 08:46 AM by Hardkill

[Nivsch]

A great example of critisism of Wokeism from above.

 

[zazen]

@Nivsch Great vid bro, thanks for sharing. She had a good new year video for 2025 also.

[Basman]

7 hours ago, SwiftQuill said:

I'm happy you think that those wokies mostly exist on Twitter. Personally I know many people like that irl, which is why I'm particularly pissed off at the ideology.

As for green policies, those I find sad. I owned an electric vehicle for 2 years and unfortunately I think it's not the solution. Electric vehicles are pretty much a scam.

Climate change and environment is a topic I fully care about and I often wonder what we can do as a collective to improve there.

Meanwhile woke Hollywood celebrities who own jets like to say men are the privileged class and selfish for not taking in the wokeness ideology. It's a pet peeve of mine to see that hypocrisy.

A lot of "woke stuff" in my opinion are low stakes stuff which aren't important in the grand scheme of things which is why large companies like to peddle those. It makes them look socially conscious while not dipping into policies that would negatively effect them, like fair wage laws for example. Disney is pro trans but you never hear them talking about building better unions or combating tax evasion.

There's also the aspect of dumbing down complex issues into memes essentially which is not unique to progressives, like "men bad". "Woke bad" on the other hand is a meme of the right. Being pro-trans is much simpler than being pro some kind of economic policy that would lift the quality of life of common people.

There are of course woke people in real life but if you ask any random person on the street chances are they are not woke.

Edited Thursday at 04:06 PM by Basman

[aurum]

Almost no one I've seen can do a proper critique of wokeness.

It all devolves into right-wing or horseshoe theory nonsense. 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, aurum said:

Almost no one I've seen can do a proper critique of wokeness.

It all devolves into right-wing or horseshoe theory nonsense. 

The best critique of wokeness is that it is simply out of touch with the survival needs and development level of most citizens, and that it fails to understand stages of development below itself.

It assumes people are more developed and conscious than they are.

[Bobby_2021]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

would say white men def have a hiring advantage for jobs, especially powerful public-facing jobs.

Women are still discriminated against for such jobs I think. And brown/black people for sure.

Do you know that Indian American women out earn white men in the US?

[zazen]

34 minutes ago, aurum said:

Almost no one I've seen can do a proper critique of wokeness.

It all devolves into right-wing or horseshoe theory nonsense. 

 

On 11/18/2024 at 2:41 PM, zazen said:

The world we inhabit, like the universe that birthed us, is bound by form. Ideologies, for better or worse, must be born downstream of this reality. They cannot escape it. The attempt to impose formlessness on form is not progress but decadence masquerading as liberation.

In times of decadence, humans experiment with ideas because they can afford to. Romans fiddled with extravagance and moral relativism while their empire rotted from within. French aristocracy debated philosophy in gilded salons while the guillotine waited just around the corner. And today in the West, we do much the same: entertaining ideologies so detached from material and biological reality they can only survive in the padded luxury of abundance.

Wokeness is a boundless effort in a boundaried world - to deconstruct everything, from gender to language, in pursuit of a utopia that cannot exist in the world of form. Wokeness is awakening calcified into a new sleep. What started as a call for deeper seeing became a new form of blindness when all it saw was: restraint as oppressive rather than protective, hierarchy as pure domination,  differences as inherent injustices. It mistakes surface level deconstruction for genuine liberation. It deconstructs everything while reconstructing nothing - a nihilistic carnival of progressive performance where complexity and nuance goes to die. It weaponises compassion into a cult like control system that controls via an insidious, invisible social contagion rather than a visible, apparent dictator with a face. It is an inverted totalitarianism as Chris Hedges put it.

Progress isn't about freeing the will from survival needs - it's about finding more elegant ways to align with them. We can't un-need needs. Hunger doesn't disappear because we've progressed enough to have grocery stores. The longing to belong to community doesn't disappear because we've developed social media. Progress is realising that the will itself isn't separate from nature - it's nature becoming conscious of itself. True freedom then isn't necessarily the absence of constraint, but the mastery of working within the necessary constraints of form. Wokism seeks to escape form, rather than evolve a better way of living within it. Progress integrates new understanding and environments with eternal principles. It builds upon reality's bedrock rather than trying to float above it.

Wokism and similar abstractions thrive not because they are practical or even moral, but because hard times have not yet forced it to reconcile with reality. It is, as writer Rob Henderson says - a “luxury belief.” You can only afford to argue that men can get pregnant or that dismantling police departments is sensible when your belly is full and your streets are safe. But reality doesn't debate, it demonstrates. In the decline phase of empire, luxury beliefs give way to necessary beliefs. 

Inflation, geopolitical tensions rising across continents, erosion of community and belonging - the signs of hard times echoed in history. History repeats itself not as comedy or tragedy, but as the ruthless law of reality reclaiming its throne. When survival is at stake, society sheds its frivolities. The spirit, so eager to transcend limits, must once again bow to the constraints of form. Ideological excess dies not by debate but by necessity.

Wokeism won't end because Donald Trump tweets something provocative, or because of conservatives railing against it. It will end because it cannot survive the hard times bearing down upon us. When people are struggling to feed their families, they don’t have the bandwidth to argue over pronouns or privilege theory. The luxury of endless deconstruction collapses under the weight of survival.

The proof is in the patterns we see emerging. Cities once heralded as bastions of progressivism - San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle - now face crises of homelessness, crime, and governance that even their most liberal citizens cannot ignore. Decay exposes the impracticality of ideologies untethered from reality. The pendulum swings back not because of malice but because of gravity.

And here’s the irony: wokeness, for all its posturing, is blind to its own privilege. It doesn’t see that its obsession with fluidity, abstraction, and infinite reinterpretation is only possible in a world that still functions. When the world malfunctions or stops functioning altogether - it won’t be wokeness that saves us. It will be the conservative impulse of reality itself, optimizing for survival and demanding order.

This isn’t new, nor is it unexpected. Hard times force humanity to return to the basics: food, shelter, safety, and community. The formless gives way to the form once again, and the cycle resets. If there is any lesson here, it is that we should aim for balance - not the extremes of wokeness or rigid traditionalism, but the wisdom to honor both spirit and form, creativity and reality.

So let the ideologues deconstruct reality while they still can. The luxury is running out, and the reckoning is already here. When it arrives, it won’t be a politician or a pundit that ends this chapter. It will be the hard, cold truth of the human condition: form always reclaims its place, and reality always has the final word.

A major error that happens is when we conflate a position of dominance (within a hierarchy) with the behavior of being dominating (within that hierarchy). Even Ken Wilber talks about this - though I forget exactly how he worded it. On the macro, this is the mistake the West makes when diagnosing the actions of other powers challenging their power, and labels them imperial/ dominating (China or Russia). On the micro, this manifests when we take every act or disparitiy as as assault on our dignity and place in society,and call it a microaggression whilst the empire we sit comfortably in commits microaggressions around the world.

[aurum]

17 minutes ago, zazen said:

A major error that happens is when we conflate a position of dominance (within a hierarchy) with the behavior of being dominating (within that hierarchy). Even Ken Wilber talks about this - though I forget exactly how he worded it. On the macro, this is the mistake the West makes when diagnosing the actions of other powers challenging their power, and labels them imperial/ dominating (China or Russia). On the micro, this manifests when we take every act or disparitiy as as assault on our dignity and place in society,and call it a microaggression whilst the empire we sit comfortably in commits microaggressions around the world.

No. You overplayed your hand.

This is exactly the kind of shoddy critique I'm talking about. 

Edited Thursday at 07:26 PM by aurum

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Do you know that Indian American women out earn white men in the US?

I haven't looked at such data, but even if so that would have all sorts of complicating causes behind it so what does that prove?

Just throwing out a random stat doesn't get to the bottom of deeper systemic issues.

Edited Thursday at 07:29 PM by Leo Gura

[AION]

Woke is being used in a cynical way. So when somebody says a girl is woke, it actually means she is asleep.

Woke refers to her consciousness being woken/wake while actually she is just sleeping, not aware of the realities of life because she lives in her SD green bubble.

By the way I'm not saying I'm above this. I have some wokeness in me. Wokeness reminds me of wankerness. It is spirituality done to itch your spiritual g spot. You are not really fucking with reality, just basking in your own delusion.

From my observation wokeness is also done as posturing and value signalling to others.

Edited Thursday at 07:38 PM by AION