Thoughts on the H-1B visa clash

[Lyubov]

2 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

@Lyubov pretty much my opinion as well 

I do wanna say that I think the exploitation claims are vastly blown out of proportion. My dad came to America on an h1b 30 some years ago and he comfortably raised a family of 4 in a high cost of living area. He was also paid equally to the rest of his company. I know many people in this same situation. Not sure how many are actually exploited 

Exploited is perhaps a strong word. I think society is just so divided these days. Many people are just so sick with how difficult it’s gotten to survive economically and no one is united on the solution. To see yourself paying all these loans and struggling to find a job and to find out a lot of companies are looking to hire from abroad since the negotiations are more in their favor. A lot of this visa stuff wouldn’t even be an issue if the standard of living wasn’t dropping and the middle class wasn’t disappearing. 

[Buck Edwards]

Now suddenly MAGA is Anti - Trump 

[Bobby_2021]

Basically this.

[Ero]

The only reason the US is technologically and economically competitive is because of all the highly-skilled/educated immigrants (I count myself amongst those). We outperform Americans on every metric. And are not entitled Karens. 

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Ero said:

The only reason the US is technologically and economically competitive is because of all the highly-skilled/educated immigrants (I count myself amongst those). We outperform Americans on every metric. And are not entitled Karens. 

Operation Paperclip 📎 just snatched a bunch of highly skilled.

[Ero]

48 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Operation Paperclip 📎 just snatched a bunch of highly skilled.

Yep, you know. Basically how NASA was founded. 

[zazen]

@Ero @Bobby_2021 Great listen -  around the 17min mark he makes a great point on how it challenges their worldview of being supreme - beyond just the practical concern for domestic job security and bolstering your own work force which are valid.

It’s the same old play book - soak up the benefits of globalization whilst denying the benefits or contributions of globalization, to maintain a supremacist world view. They want to claim the achievements of their civilization as if they built them in isolation - which confirms their supremacy.

Just as the West benefited from Islamic advancements in science and technology during its Renaissance, it now benefits from immigrant labor and expertise - but they struggle to acknowledge this reliance or contribution. 

Immigrants are framed as a threat to Western greatness rather than the ones propping it up. What they are a threat to is their worldview.

Edited Thursday at 02:41 PM by zazen

[PurpleTree]

31 minutes ago, Ero said:

Yep, you know. Basically how NASA was founded. 

Funny thing is (heard that a few days ago)

Wernher von Braun wrote a science fiction novel about a Mars colony.

In which “the Elon" was the ruler of Mars.

"The Martian government was directed by ten men, the leader of whom was elected by universal suffrage for five years and entitled "Elon." Two houses of Parliament enacted the laws to be administered by the Elon and his cabinet.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mars:_A_Technical_Tale

[Lyubov]

Didn’t Canada basically cause all sorts of issues for their country by allowing a very liberal version of this kind of visa? 

[Ero]

49 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Funny thing is (heard that a few days ago)

Wernher von Braun wrote a science fiction novel about a Mars colony.

In which “the Elon" was the ruler of Mars.

"The Martian government was directed by ten men, the leader of whom was elected by universal suffrage for five years and entitled "Elon." Two houses of Parliament enacted the laws to be administered by the Elon and his cabinet.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mars:_A_Technical_Tale

That's actually crazy. Written in 1949 and not published until 2007. 

Tbh, I think Elon is wrong for wanting to "skip" the Moon and go straight to Mars (the Moon has some of the highest concentrations of helium-3, the best fuel for fusion). Also, Bezos' vision of moving industry to space is much more attractive imo. There's a lot of stuff you can do in no gravity, which you cannot do on Earth, such as 3d print organs, crystallization of certain materials and medicines (like Ritonavir).

Edited Thursday at 03:50 PM by Ero

[MarkKol]

The H1B visa actually requires a high standard of education, you won’t get random Indian hobos in your country. Unlike the EB3 visa and the green card lottery.

The h1b holders will be more educated than the redneck republicans who oppose it, baseless claims.  

[Lyubov]

18 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

The H1B visa actually requires a high standard of education, you won’t get random Indian hobos in your country. Unlike the EB3 visa and the green card lottery.

The h1b holders will be more educated than the redneck republicans who oppose it, baseless claims.  

Is that entirely true though? No doubt the people coming in on H1B are educated but what makes them capable over other educated American citizens? Last time I checked it’s not 60,000 Einstein being brought in on it yearly. It’s definitely been used before in tech to outsource labor to more servile and controllable people who will be deported if they are fired. Innovation benefits from immigration and getting the best minds here but this visa isn’t being entirely used for that. In some cases it’s used to replace educated Americans who know their rights as citizens. It definitely needs to be reviewed. 

[MarkKol]

37 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Is that entirely true though? No doubt the people coming in on H1B are educated but what makes them capable over other educated American citizens? Last time I checked it’s not 60,000 Einstein being brought in on it yearly. It’s definitely been used before in tech to outsource labor to more servile and controllable people who will be deported if they are fired. Innovation benefits from immigration and getting the best minds here but this visa isn’t being entirely used for that. In some cases it’s used to replace educated Americans who know their rights as citizens. It definitely needs to be reviewed. 

From what I gathered, America actually suffers from too much work available instead of unemployment like the rest of us, and high end fields like tech which are ONLY booming in America and China right now, are particularly talent hungry.

You can’t expect to be the world’s #1 expansionist empire and not expect loads of immigrants pouring in

Still, getting into America is actually really difficult, something you might not expect.

Europe’s tech economy is dead, completely wiped out by our own governments

Edited Thursday at 04:39 PM by MarkKol

[Ero]

33 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

No doubt the people coming in on H1B are educated but what makes them capable over other educated American citizens?

As someone who is not subject to this process, something you may not know is that all companies requesting H1Bs are mandated by law to demonstrate that there are not enough American applicants that can satisfy the job requirements and qualifications. It's not 60,000 Einsteins, but it is 60,000 people who are on average more educated and skilled than the Americans. 

Edited Thursday at 04:34 PM by Ero

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

Immigrants are framed as a threat to Western greatness rather than the ones propping it up.

Ironic considering that America is a country of immigrants built by immigrants with the promise of "American dream" to any other immigrants. It's built into their whole philosophy. 

The far right hates it and the far left hates it.