Toxic dating works better and it's killing me - how to stay authentic?

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

  On 1/2/2025 at 9:34 PM, Leo Gura said:

People are people. People get drunk in Vegas no different than they get drunk at a local bar. Vegas is just more grand.

Yeah people have fun everywhere but people's inhibitions or lack thereof can alter greatly depending on their location, I mean the saying "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" exists for a reason

[Emerald]

  On 1/2/2025 at 4:05 AM, Buck Edwards said:

@Emerald Men need pickup advice to get women. Men want to attract women, not study women. If they follow your approach, they will not get women. That's why Leo offers pickup advice. 

This post isn't actually about attracting women. So, pickup advice isn't going to help in this case.

In fact, many of the posts on this section of the forum can't be helped with generic pickup advice.

But there are plenty of practical techniques that men can use to attract women, which can be used without extrapolating skewed narratives about women to go along with them.

But what tends to happen is that Leo and others find what works and want to weave that together with a certain ideological understanding of gender to create a narrative of certainty.

They are trying to have the illusion that they "know thy enemy" better than the enemy knows themselves. So, they become blinkered and attached.

And my issue has never been about the practical techniques. I never once said to abstain from doing what works. 

People get onto me about that. But it's just that what I'm saying is challenging comforting but false narratives, so the strawman of my perspective is that I'm against what's practical.

And they can use that to say to themselves that my that my perspective is nonsense and that I'm out of touch.

But it's all about maintaining the comfort of certainty and simplicity that the false narratives give the illusion of providing.

That way they can keep looking to what works practically as evidence that they should continue believing their ideological narratives as absolute truth.

So, my issue with it is myopia and paradigm lock... and the fact that men get really brainwashed into these narratives to where they aren't open to understanding anything new.

And they become wrapped up in their own story so much that they lose sight of what's real and how human dynamics really operate. And this ends up biting them in ways that they don't consciously perceive yet suffer great from. 

[Emerald]

  On 1/2/2025 at 6:22 PM, Wyeth said:

Leo should get out of Las Vegas if he wants to get over that paradigm lock, so many materialistic stage orange women there that only reinforce his view of dating and women.

I'm not sure that women in Vegas are actually super materialistic. I think you're mixing up the imagery associated with the city with the people.

Vegas is often associated with the imagery of show girls and wheeler/dealer gambler types.

And Leo himself isn't a wheeler/dealer gambler type, yet lives in Vegas.

The nature of the paradigm lock that Leo has that I'm referring to is that he tends to overlook humanity's communal filial nature and tries to boil human beings down to a Social Darwinian-esque paradigm.... which means seeing human dating/relationship dynamics as an objective hierarchical value exchange. 

It's sort of like stripping the humanity out of humanity... and believing that this kind of Darwinian reductionism will produce better insights about how human beings operate. Rather than actually observing the less-simple, less-sexy, and less-fetishizable but more accurate ways that we actually do operate.

It seems to me that he believes that our communal nature is just a veneer that conceals and masks our true nature. 

And it will produce simpler insights to look from that angle that can help to get a sense of what women in the aggregate find valuable in a hierarchical sense... but will also create a false worldview if the practical good that is produced by that worldview is mistakenly seen as evidence of truth.

And operating through the Social Darwinian lens of objective heirarchal value exchange and believing that it is truth will create anti-social ways of operating and fears for men of not being able to be loved for who they are as a person.

So, there's a lot of ways that I observe these narratives backfiring... especially when men are convinced the narratives are the absolute truth.

Edited January 2 by Emerald

[Princess Arabia]

  On 1/2/2025 at 9:09 PM, Leo Gura said:

Lol

You make it sound like the women in Vegas are some special breed of materialistic sluts, when the women here are just normal women who fly in from all over the world.

Yes, but a lot of the people that live there, at least when I lived there for 2yrs, were functioning alcoholics and/or pill poppers, and I'm talking about normal working people and I mean a lot.

Edited January 3 by Princess Arabia

[Leo Gura]

  On 1/3/2025 at 0:17 AM, Princess Arabia said:

functioning alcoholics and/or pill poppers

Do you really think these people are not all around every major city?

There are alcoholics in every bar and club around the world.

Alcohol is available everywhere, and rural areas tend to have more alcoholics from what I understand because there's nothing better to do. Drug addict concentrations are higher in smaller towns with bad economies and nothing to do.

Vegas is a thriving economy, growing fast, lots of opportunities.

Edited January 3 by Leo Gura

[Whitney Edwards]

  On 1/2/2025 at 9:38 PM, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Well, we do have the perfect teachers to learn the art of narcisism from

If you think so... If you think women are narcissists, well women are women and not much can be done about it. 

Edited January 3 by Buck Edwards

[CARDOZZO]

History repeats itself.

1. Nice guys trying to understand woman.
2. Bad boys does not care and just f%c# all them  
3. Nice guys feel ashamed and angry.
4. Nice guys turn into bad boy behavior to fuck.

Woman love to be treated badly. Sad but true. 

[Emerald]

  On 1/3/2025 at 3:05 AM, CARDOZZO said:

History repeats itself.

1. Nice guys trying to understand woman.
2. Bad boys does not care and just f%c# all them  
3. Nice guys feel ashamed and angry.
4. Nice guys turn into bad boy behavior to fuck.

Woman love to be treated badly. Sad but true. 

A bit of victim's mentality, eh?

[CARDOZZO]

  On 1/3/2025 at 3:07 AM, Emerald said:

A bit of victim's mentality, eh?

That's what you see all over the internet. These guys are lost. They can't see a way out. They become evil manipulatory humans just to fuck. How insane is it?

Edited January 3 by CARDOZZO

[CARDOZZO]

Women are not guilty. It is just pure biology + years of evolution. Don't be mad at your roots. That's what made you survive until now.

Edited January 3 by CARDOZZO

[Whitney Edwards]

  On 1/3/2025 at 3:05 AM, CARDOZZO said:

History repeats itself.

1. Nice guys trying to understand woman.
2. Bad boys does not care and just f%c# all them  
3. Nice guys feel ashamed and angry.
4. Nice guys turn into bad boy behavior to fuck.

Woman love to be treated badly. Sad but true. 

Then don't be surprised when the woman leaves you. Because you couldn't give a fuck about her. 

[Emerald]

  On 1/3/2025 at 3:09 AM, CARDOZZO said:

That's what you see all over the internet. These guys are lost. They can't see a way out, They become evil manipulatory humans just to fuck. How insane is it?

Definitely insane. And I've encountered a lot of men in this nice guy/bad boy delusion when I was in my teens and early 20s.

And the issue in the first place is that they perceived themselves as nice guys when they were just ashamed and self-deprecating because of their shame, which doesn't have anything to do with being nice or pleasant to be around. 

But it tends to be the way good guy everyman main characters are written in movies to show that they are the good guy. So, they believe that being unassuming and self-critical makes them come off as nice and kind.

But they were already exuding red flag vibes that scare women away. They just weren't aware of it. But it comes through in the vibe.

And then, they think, "I guess women just like assholes. I need to become an asshole to get women to like me." But they were unconscious to the fact that they already were giving off asshole vibes.

And then, they become aggressive and the red flags become more overt and scare women away even more.

But they keep doubling down because they thought the issue was that they were a nice guy when they were never actually nice. 

And they will come to the conclusion, "I guess I wasn't enough of a bad boy to get sex. Let me triple down."

And the cycle repeats.

[CARDOZZO]

  On 1/3/2025 at 3:17 AM, Buck Edwards said:

Then don't be surprised when the woman leaves you. Because you couldn't give a fuck about her. 

I'm not talking about relationships. It is a different game. The majority of men these days could not even get laid. Imagine having a relationship  

[Tenebroso]

It's very clear from everything I have seen and experienced that being a good man means absolutely nothing to women. If women care about the qualities they say do, they have a funny way of showing it. 

[Whitney Edwards]

  On 1/3/2025 at 3:19 AM, CARDOZZO said:

I'm not talking about relationships. It is a different game. The majority of men these days could not even get laid. Imagine having a relationship  

Women are relationship centered. Not fuck centered. 

[CARDOZZO]

The harsh truth is: the majority of man these days are just invisible to woman in general. Period. 

They hate this fact with all their hearts. 

Solution 1: blackpill/learned helplessness.

Solution 2: learn game, gym, make money.

Solution 3: monk mode.

Solution 4 is not allowed to say because of forum guidelines.

[whh2222]

 

Edited January 3 by whh2222

[Tenebroso]

  On 1/3/2025 at 3:19 AM, Emerald said:

 

But they were already exuding red flag vibes that scare women away. They just weren't aware of it. But it comes through in the vibe.

And then, they think, "I guess women just like assholes. I need to become an asshole to get women to like me." But they were unconscious to the fact that they already were giving off asshole vibes.

 

So they are rejected for exuding red flags that scare women away but actually abusive, narcissistic men attract women with no problems. So why do these red flags not show up with one set of men but show up clearly with another? It comes across to me as vilifying unattractive men, so women don't feel guilt for not being attracted to them.

It's nothing to do with actual red flags or vibes. The deciding factor in whether or not a man does well romantically is not how much of an asshole he is or his vibe. 

[Tenebroso]

  On 1/3/2025 at 3:23 AM, Buck Edwards said:

Women are relationship centered. Not fuck centered. 

Women are just as fuck centered for a small minority of men. Women love sex but only a very small percentage of men can really bring that raw, carnal side out.

[CARDOZZO]

  On 1/3/2025 at 3:25 AM, Buck Edwards said:

You meant to say you want to rape women? 

What??? S&ic%d#