Toxic dating works better and it's killing me - how to stay authentic?

[Buck Edwards]

4 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

@ricachica There is no benefit from having female friends whatsoever, other than fullfilling a general need for socializing and talking to someone, and confirming the things that are already known about them. They won't help you in any other way whatsoever, if anything they can be kinda annoying

What benefit are you looking for? 

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Any time I explain general dynamics of attraction, some woman comes along and says, "Not me!"

This is irrelevant to what is being discussed. Dynamics are being talked about, not your personal tastes.

The issue is that you often get the dynamics incorrect and you spread misinformation without realizing that you're spreading misinformation... because you believe that women are just kidding themselves or that it would be 'too painful to face the truth.'

And this causes you to block out real female perspectives in favor of something that's reductive but has the facade of being objective and scientific.

But you're operating off of a paradigm that decenters human psychological, emotionally, and social dynamics and reduces it down to pure biology and survival (which often is bro-sciency and presumptive).

And you may not realize that you're operating ideologically about female sexuality because it has a practical and scientific veneer to it. But if you're honest with yourself, you'll notice that you're holding onto your perspective defensively to maintain a certain worldview as it pertains to women, men, dating, and relationships.

And it causes you to negate and block out a lot of wisdom in this area.

And it also just feeds a lot of misinformation and false narratives about women that a lot of guys are already really caught up in and suffering because of. So, it's really doing the young men in your audience a disservice as your perspective won't lead them to functional relationships.

I just wish you'd realize that this is a topic that you're not very well informed about and be little more humble and open to those who are more knowledgable about it.

[Staples]

Men and women will never understand each other. One would need two lifetimes as both genders to start to get it.

Language fails us here as we do not have the tools to convey the deep emotional responses we feel.

Better to just play in the mystery.

Edited Wednesday at 02:09 AM by Staples

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

The issue is that you often get the dynamics incorrect and you spread misinformation without realizing that you're spreading misinformation... because you believe that women are just kidding themselves or that it would be 'too painful to face the truth.'

And this causes you to block out real female perspectives in favor of something that's reductive but has the facade of being objective and scientific.

But you're operating off of a paradigm that decenters human psychological, emotionally, and social dynamics and reduces it down to pure biology and survival (which often is bro-sciency and presumptive).

And you may not realize that you're operating ideologically about female sexuality because it has a practical and scientific veneer to it. But if you're honest with yourself, you'll notice that you're holding onto your perspective defensively to maintain a certain worldview as it pertains to women, men, dating, and relationships.

And it causes you to negate and block out a lot of wisdom in this area.

And it also just feeds a lot of misinformation and false narratives about women that a lot of guys are already really caught up in and suffering because of. So, it's really doing the young men in your audience a disservice as your perspective won't lead them to functional relationships.

I just wish you'd realize that this is a topic that you're not very well informed about and be little more humble and open to those who are more knowledgable about it.

Attraction works exactly as I explained here. I explained what a man needs to know to successfully attract women.

If men here do the opposite of what I said they will not only not have relationships but not even sex.

Nothing I said here inhibits functional relationships. This thread is not about relationships.

Attraction dynamics will never make sense to women when they are explicated, because as a woman you have no interest in the dynamics, you care about your agenda. You do not care about the mechanics of dating or what men need to understand to attract women.

If you want to criticize my views of dating and relationships you can do it elsewhere, but in the context of this thread your criticizism is misleading the guy who started this thread. I understand that women have a different way of seeing all this, but when giving people advice you gotta set your view aside and consider what the guy asking needs.

You are not more knowledgable than me about how to attract women and the challenges men face in this domain.

What gall to even open the door to the idea that women are attracted to good character. That is pure nonsense.

Edited Wednesday at 03:25 AM by Leo Gura

[integral]

5 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Please don't group us with your "no character attractor factor". That's why porn is male dominated. We do care and are attracted to character and personality. 

When a guy has Zero Charisma he looks autistic and socially unadded, is this someone you're attracted to? 

This is the general pattern of people who are uncalibrated because women are so sensitive to other people's emotions when you're un calibrated you're giving off the wrong emotions and now she is burdened with those emotions, making her feel uncomfortable. So Charisma is the opposite of that you're creating an environment of safety security and connection.

When a guy is nervous a woman very easily can pick that up and it makes them feel uncomfortable.

They might not know he's nervous but they can pick up on all the subtleties of tension that he's giving off.

A uncalibrated person is creating a lot of tension with all the people around him.

Edited Wednesday at 02:22 AM by integral

[Buck Edwards]

2 minutes ago, integral said:

When a guy has Zero Charisma he looks autistic and socially unadded, is this someone you're attracted to?

I command () you to make a thread in the dating section on how men can be more charismatic to get women. Make a huge list of what men can do. 

C'mon you should do it. 

[integral]

18 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

I command () you to make a thread in the dating section on how men can be more charismatic to get women. Make a huge list of what men can do. 

C'mon you should do it. 

🤣 didn't Leo make a three-part series of Commandments men should follow whenever in the presence of woman?

Honestly I know it's not a popular opinion but I do think because Leo has so much experience with this that he's mostly right. If you really want experience, dress up as a man and then go and approach a bunch of women and try to connect with these women yourself. A lot of women don't realize just how challenging that is. Especially when you have no idea how to socialize.

Leo is very thoughtful in his relationships and a loving person overall, and he advocates for all this. It's just tricky teaching men that have no clue at all how to get results and then from there being in a healthy responsible relationship. 

Attraction is very primitive thing and when you talk about it out loud it sounds like misogyny and emotional manipulation in a unhealthy way. But really Leo is talking about healthy emotional manipulation ( if your girlfriend asks you if she looks fat, you always respond with no lol). He is always talking about the healthy representation of all of these topics, and how to have healthy relationships from beginning to end.

Edited Wednesday at 02:39 AM by integral

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, integral said:

Leo is very thoughtful in his relationships

How would you know?

[integral]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

How would you know?

I know whatever you said on camera. On camera you're teaching people to have healthy relationships and to treat women correctly. I understand that you're a normal person that made 101 mistakes like everyone else, are you withholding critical information that you're actually a tyrant? lol

No I don't think I know you. lol

Am I allowed to think highly of you or is this against the Forum rules . Oh I understand it's because the only interest is in pure truth.

My assumption is that you're overly focused on truth in relationships which is a super masculine thing and that tends to cause conflict. I did that a lot for a long time and then relaxed at some point with it all. Or your health problems cause emotional problems which cause conflict which cause issues like that. Or maybe i completely misinterpreted your very recent videos where you talked about these subjects.

Edited Wednesday at 04:19 AM by integral

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Any time I explain general dynamics of attraction, some woman comes along and says, "Not me!"

This is irrelevant to what is being discussed. Dynamics are being talked about, not your personal tastes.

If this is your repeated experience, then, perhaps there is something to be learned.

You discount any experience that doesn't fit your narrative.

[Raze]

I would explain it like this.

For a woman to want to sleep with a guy he’d need to meet her required standards of attraction and comfort. And as a woman she has evolved a mechanism that determines what makes her attracted or comfortable based on various things from genetic hardwiring to societal upbringing.

And some of what makes her attracted can be counter to what makes her comfortable, and vice versa, and this can also change depending on the pattern which said things are experienced by her.

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:17 AM by Raze

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, integral said:

Am I allowed to think highly of you or is this against the Forum rules

It is a violation of God's rules to make assumptions about me 

[integral]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is a violation of God's rules to make assumptions about me 

naaa I get it, i just trying to make you look good in front of the truth seeking ladies.  

I misspoke I was trying to make it clear that you're not pushing for unhealthy teachings. My writing is not perfect.

There has to be some way to bridge the gap so women can understand the teaching while going around to their agenda. lol

Edited Wednesday at 04:30 AM by integral

[Buck Edwards]

Women (based off my previous dating experience) are attracted to charisma and sexuality in men in the beginning. But his values, integrity and character matter a lot within the context of a relationship. His initial mannerisms matter the most. 

So first impressions matter a lot. Next is his behavior and the dynamic he sets in the relationship. If he is abusive, unkind, unfriendly, unsupportive and or being a jerk, she will eventually leave and choose a better man for herself. 

A woman's intuition is strong in relationships. She can sense the type of man she wants to date. Often this can get muddled by her childhood upbringing and her own worldview of romance and sexuality but it will stay muddled if she doesn't put in proactive growth to consciously clear out her toxic patterns and reconnects healthily to her own sexuality to secure the man who treats her well. 

We tend to attract what we already are. So even if you attract someone way out of your league, you won't be able to keep them for long if you don't put in effort to match their standards. This is just how survival works. If you want something really good, you have to put in the effort to attract that as well. 

General dynamics of attraction exists just like Leo describes and a lot of this textual knowledge is true. 

However... 

Real life dating is an experience in itself. Attraction varies from person to person and is highly contingent on personality traits, worldview, personal values and biological chemistry. You can't simulate these things into some theoretical package. 

 

[Buck Edwards]

7 minutes ago, integral said:

There has to be some way to bridge the gap so women can understand the teaching while going around to their agenda. lol

Women will always have their agenda one way or another. Yet I don't like it when men don't want to hear a woman's perspective at all. That confuses me. 

[integral]

30 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Women will always have their agenda one way or another. Yet I don't like it when men don't want to hear a woman's perspective at all. That confuses me. 

Why is it that women consistently find themselves in relationships with men who have bad character? Specifically when they're young and inexperienced or in some cases indefinitely.

 

Edited Wednesday at 05:09 AM by integral

[ricachica]

9 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

@ricachica There is no benefit from having female friends whatsoever, other than fullfilling a general need for socializing and talking to someone, and confirming the things that are already known about them. They won't help you in any other way whatsoever, if anything they can be kinda annoying

Interesting. What does your dating life look like?

Edited Wednesday at 05:59 AM by ricachica

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

\If you want to criticize my views of dating and relationships you can do it elsewhere, but in the context of this thread your criticizism is misleading the guy who started this thread. I understand that women have a different way of seeing all this, but when giving people advice you gotta set your view aside and consider what the guy asking needs.

You are not more knowledgable than me about how to attract women and the challenges men face in this domain.

What gall to even open the door to the idea that women are attracted to good character. That is pure nonsense.

Cassandra here....

You may not recognize this, but I am SPECIFICALLY trying to serve the guy who's asking... and other men who are caught up in similar narratives by challenging the frameworks that men are taught and conditioned to hold about women by a myriad of sources.

That's why I'm always getting onto you about this kind of thing.

And this is where you seem to have the biggest blindspots and lack the most wisdom because of your paradigm lock in this area. You seem to be adamant about only looking from this one over-simplified angle, and you're very protective of this one angle.

And what's most frustrating is that you're certain that this is the ONLY angle that men will benefit from, when it's pretty obvious that the exact opposite thing is true. 

And after 10 years of these kinds of narratives circulating and being followed like a religion and being used as a means to grift on vulnerable young men, you should realize by now that it's feeding into the same shame narratives and doing more harm than good.

And in most areas, you're quite capable of being multi-perspectival. But you're very attached and refuse to question or expand your paradigm around this topic. 

And all you have is a hammer, and so everything starts looking like a nail.

And I've witnessed you often offering the wrong medicine to these guys because you can't differentiate between the symptom and the germ.

If you pay attention closer to the post by the OP, this core of this thread isn't really about attracting women at all. That's just a symptom of a deeper root cause.

And even if he became Casanova who knows how to push all the right buttons for every woman on the planet, he's still going to be struggling with the same issue.... which is shame and the fear that he can never be loved as he is. 

And getting caught up in these over-simplified narratives and solutions that you're proposing only aggravates the wound.

It's like offering Tylenol to help cure Malaria.

 

[Princess Arabia]

I'm through talking about relationships/sex/dating on this forum. The men want to tell the ladies what they like and the men want to tell the men what women like. No matter how much us ladies put our two cents in, it's never heard. I think only once or twice since I've been on this forum where I've seen a male genuinely ask us females anything about what we find most attractive in men or just ask us anything about relationships and how we see it or whatever. 

All I hear is we don't know what we want, we're confused and to never ask a female advice about dating. As far as I'm concerned, all the men on here that I see that are into relationships are the ones that seem to really understand what women are about and they're not the ones telling us ladies what they think we like or don't like. 

They keep listening to the men who either are not in relationships, don't like women or are home jerking off to porn. Those are the men giving advice and who they're listening to. Us ladies don't stand a chance because these men are either too hung up on their ideas about us or are too stuck in their heads about what they believe women like. It's pointless. 

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I'm through talking about relationships/sex/dating on this forum. The men want to tell the ladies what they like and the men want to tell the men what women like. No matter how much us ladies put our two cents in, it's never heard. I think only once or twice since I've been on this forum where I've seen a male genuinely ask us females anything about what we find most attractive in men or just ask us anything about relationships and how we see it or whatever. 

All I hear is we don't know what we want, we're confused and to never ask a female advice about dating. As far as I'm concerned, all the men on here that I see that are into relationships are the ones that seem to really understand what women are about and they're not the ones telling us ladies what they think we like or don't like. 

They keep listening to the men who either are not in relationships, don't like women or are home jerking off to porn. Those are the men giving advice and who they're listening to. Us ladies don't stand a chance because these men are either too hung up on their ideas about us or are too stuck in their heads about what they believe women like. It's pointless. 

Exactly.

And as a word of warning to others about these hard-headed advice-giving guys and in general... don't take advice from anyone who doesn't already have the results that you want to achieve.

Don't take advice about how to become a millionaire from someone who isn't already a millionaire.

Don't take advice on how to fly a plane from someone who isn't already a pilot.

And don't take advice about how to have a relationship with a woman from someone who doesn't already have the kind of relationship you want to have... or that you may one day want to have.

You'll end up having to unlearn so many things, which is a lot more difficult once those ideas are already imbedded.