Toxic dating works better and it's killing me - how to stay authentic?

[Miguel1]

15 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Not even thinking about demi-sexuals.

I have no sex drive unless emotionally engaged/connected to a person.

Can you become demi later on in life?

I’ve started to contemplate deeper that I’ve become a demi or something similar.

Wasn’t like this in my younger years.

Or maybe I just matured lol.

Edited January 1 by Miguel1

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, AION said:

If even Emerald doesn’t get it, it is a lost cause trying to explain it. I think it is part of the zeitgeist though. 

There's nothing Leo is saying that's difficult to understand. It's just reductive and reinforces false narratives. It's ideology in disguise as reason.

[integral]

@Princess Arabia @Emerald okay guys what advice would give to a men who is struggling to get a gf, maybe he's a virgin maybe lets say he's 22. What strategy should he use to be more attractive or find himself with a gf?

Edited January 1 by integral

[Leo Gura]

It is important to see things from the feminine perspective, but you also have to check it against cold hard reality. In this case it just doesn't pass the check.

You can believe whatever you want about dating, but then reality will crush your ideas to pieces. Women can hold ungronded ideas about it because they never need to face the cold hard reality of the man's situation because that is irrelevant to them.

Edited January 1 by Leo Gura

[Whitney Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is important to see things from the feminine perspective, but you also have to check it against cold hard reality. In this case it just doesn't pass the check.

You can believe whatever you want about dating, but then reality will crush your ideas to pieces.

What part of the feminine perspective do you agree with? 

[integral]

22 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I know this forum is mostly male, but do you ever see any of the females on this forum making threads about toxic men and how men are this and how men are that in the dating world. How they've watched videos on dating and they say men are this and that, and is it true. No, we don't care about that stuff. We go out and see for ourselves and be with these men to get the experience for ourselves and decide from there and we don't need toxic videos about men to tell us anything. We're not afraid to delve right in and be hurt or whatever.

If every man you came into contact with rejected you and gave you no dating opportunities you would go on youtube and seek advice on how to attract men. Can you see the false comparison being made?

Edited January 1 by integral

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

What part of the feminine perspective do you agree with? 

The part where dating cannot just be about manipulating women into sex, it has to be about integrity, emotional connection, intimacy, communication, and all that stuff.

Character matters inside the relationship.

Edited January 1 by Leo Gura

[whh2222]

I think character is more valuable in the long term. After being around a person for so long, having good character enforces the relationship going forward. But I would say it matters a lot less when initially attracting someone. Though I do find a sweet and kind woman very attractive. 

Edited January 1 by whh2222

[Miguel1]

I’m drawn to anyone be it male or female, if they have good character - because it’s so rare, and I value it so much.

Now, whether it’s sexual or not, that’s a different story.

[Miguel1]

12 minutes ago, Candle said:

We use "character" as an excuse to hide the fact that we are attracted to "good looks". 

Yes, when you are not self-aware enough to distinguish them.

[Miguel1]

Just now, Candle said:

If she looks ugly but has very great character, would you date her? 

If I had to pick her over a bombshell but is a fucking psycho?

What are you betting on?

[Miguel1]

Just because character can make someone more attractive, doesn’t mean that it’s the only and biggest trigger.

Edited January 1 by Miguel1

[Whitney Edwards]

It takes a special breed of man to bypass looks and see the woman for what she is worth. 

[Miguel1]

5 minutes ago, Candle said:

I'm self aware now, that's why I have written that. In love, you get mad, you deliberately ignore the reality. 

You are talking about completely different level than what the thread is about.

In the thread, we are discussing initial stages of meeting people, initial stages of attraction. Not deep emotionally bonded monogamous relationship.

The deeper a relationship is, the more character affects.

But that doesn’t mean that you can’t be drawn to good character in the beginning - especially if you deeply value it yourself.

—

And if you are self-aware enough, you will be able to see your bias that you are pointing out here, thus distinguishing it from what really is the case. By definition.

Edited January 1 by Miguel1

[Miguel1]

I’m at a point in life, where I’ve exhausted my sex karma so deeply that I get proportionally more turned off the more someone behaves like a selfish moron.

And I can see right through all their unconscious bullshits.

Edited January 1 by Miguel1

[aurum]

If character was required for sexual attraction, humanity would have gone extinct a long time ago.

What generates attraction is survival advantage. Which is NOT equivalent to character. In fact, it can be very much the opposite.

[Miguel1]

I live in a stage green socialist-capitalist society. Perhaps the most developed nation in the world. At least the happiest.

I behave and treat girls very well here. I do balance it with lots of teasing, fun, playfulness, wittyness & charisma. I also have a lot of social proof here. I am naturally very good at emotionally connecting with people, and I authentically care about them due to my deep empathetic nature.

If a girl behaves like a selfish entitled idiot, I call them out, give them shit and move on, cuz poor behaviour pisses me off. Oftentimes I laugh at their face and move on.

I do not have an issue with supply of girls being attracted to me.

Honestly, I feel like the worse I treat girls, the less success I get. But maybe that’s because it’s just very incongruent and fake of me to treat people poorly. Unless they deserve it.

The more developed an individual and collective is, the more turned off they are by bad character.

I havent read all of @Emerald’s posts but I am leaning more with her. It’s been like that I believe ever since I joined this forum back in 2021. There was also Ethereal Cat being more active back then. Same issue, same discussion, different year.

All that being said, Leo is not completely off either.

A middle ground to what ya’ll are fighting about is where it’s at, I believe.

Edited January 1 by Miguel1

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

I do not have an issue with supply of girls being attracted to me.

If you already have attraction all figured out then of course your concern is now finding quality personality and character.

You are like a girl who takes attraction for granted.

You people are completely out of touch. Like millionaires swimming in money. You don't even understand what poverty is.

Edited January 1 by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It is important to see things from the feminine perspective, but you also have to check it against cold hard reality. In this case it just doesn't pass the check.

You can believe whatever you want about dating, but then reality will crush your ideas to pieces. Women can hold ungronded ideas about it because they never need to face the cold hard reality of the man's situation because that is irrelevant to them.

First off, I already said this post isn't asking advice about how to get better with women. This is a post about the OP feeling a fear that he can't be loved by a woman because of misunderstandings about women's nature.

But really it's about creating a narrative to tongue the wounds around deeper feelings of shame and unworthiness.

And that deeper feeling of unworthiness expresses itself through a false male-created narrative about women that could be dispelled if he really understood how women actually feel about men... and not just the skewed narratives men weave about how women feel about men.

And you keep trying to give generic attraction advice to men who are struggling with something deeper that is only tangentially related to the topic of becoming attractive to women.

And you're also missing altogether the thing that I'm saying.

I'm not saying that you're totally incorrect and that you have nothing valuable to say on the topic. And I'm not saying to throw out what works practically.

I'm sure if we went down the list thing by thing, I'd find quite a lot that I'd agree with.

But it's not about any one specific belief you're holding. It's about the fixation on a very specific male-created narrative that paints the picture of a false reality that feels very real and evident from men's perspective, but that doesn't actually exist in real life because you're not being holistic in your way of thinking about this topic.

And a big part of that is that you neglect the social, emotional, and psychological realties and hyper-focus on biological realities, which creates a simpler paradigm of value with very little nuance. 

And you're very attached to looking at women and human relationships from one very specific reductive angle that presents a skewed vision of reality woven in with kernels of truth, and you hold onto it tightly like a security blanket because you've found something that feels like it works and gives you a sense that you can tie it up in a neat box.

And you're very attached to your sense of certainty about this topic and lack intellectual curiosity about it.

But you don't see the ways it's backfiring on you and holding you back at the same time to view women and relationships this way. And you don't recognize that you're missing a lot of wisdom on this topic, yet presenting yourself as an expert.

And your results are not what most men want now or will want in the future.

And when men believe they can't learning anything valuable about women from women, this causes a lot of problems for men as it creates ideological blocks to real intimacy and understanding.... which is the bedrock of a functional relationship.

[Tenebroso]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

If character was required for sexual attraction, humanity would have gone extinct a long time ago.

What generates attraction is survival advantage. Which is NOT equivalent to character. In fact, it can be very much the opposite.

This. Nothing to with morality, kindness, emotional intelligence etc The gaslighting is hard to take seriously. Men have eyes and share experiences, we can see clearly a vast gap between what women say and how they act.