Toxic dating works better and it's killing me - how to stay authentic?

[Shodburrito]

I recently watched a video claiming that women's primary goal in relationships is to 'emasculate and control' men. The creator argues that women only feel genuine attraction/love for men who don't show them love back, and that being a 'good man' (loyal, loving, honest) makes women lose interest and see you as weak.

He suggests that women are naturally drawn to 'bad boys' who create uncertainty and show they have other options, while they'll ultimately disrespect men who show genuine care and commitment. The video frames traditional relationship virtues (emotional availability, commitment, communication) as weaknesses that lead to losing a woman's interest.

What troubles me is that I've experimented with being more emotionally distant and showing less investment - and I've noticed it actually does increase female attention and interest. When I act less available and more detached, women seem to pursue me more. This really depresses me because I don't want to be toxic or manipulative - I want to be genuine and caring. But I can't deny that showing less emotional investment often leads to more attraction.

I'm struggling to find a healthy balance between maintaining strong boundaries and genuine care. How can I be authentic while still maintaining enough emotional distance to keep attraction? Is there a way to be both caring and maintain healthy challenge/mystery in relationships? I don't want to play games, but I also don't want to fall into patterns that kill attraction.

 

 

 

[aurum]

This subforum needs a giant flashing "Do not consume red pill content" sign.

 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Cope olympiad

[Consept]

It's a natural human thing to want what you can't have, if you said to a kid, 'I have an amazing toy but you can't have it I'm gonna keep it for myself' they'd probably get upset even if they wouldn't normally choose it. Just because you can trigger this in dating doesn't mean girls actually want you. 

Think of it like this, imagine a girl showed you genuine interest and you started to like her so you felt some connection, but then she doesn't reply to texts and seems distant at times. This would completely fuck with your head and could make you text her more, definitely think about her more and this will lead to wanting her more because she feels just out of reach. 

So it's not that women a wired this way, we can all get manipulated in this way. Also I'm not putting a moral judgement on this, you are free to do this but of course it will not lead to a real connection, at best you'll confuse a girl to thinking that she likes you but then if you do get into a relationship and that dynamic is no longer the same she may lose interest. 

What's important to do if you want to be authentic is to know yourself and know exactly what you want. If this is strong in you, naturally you'll communicate that with the girl, if they're not on the same page as you then you move on. Have your own standards and boundaries. 

Also in terms of killing attraction, yes it is more attractive to show less investment, but if you think about it, why would you invest so heavily from the get go. If you have your own criteria, naturally it will take time to get to know the person and work out whether she lives up to your criteria. In that time you won't be overly invested anyway, you'll be interested but you won't be throwing everything at her, that wouldn't be authentic. If she feels like stepping away because of your early investment its probably cos you went overboard. 

Think of it like if you want to go into business with someone and before they really even know your business plan they're doing everything to get the deal, taking you out, offering you money etc, you would most likely be very suspicious and put off. Whereas if someone was actually being very chill and going through your plan carefully and not committing til they were 100% sure, you'd feel a lot safer. You still might get bamboozled by the first guy but then you might learn from that experience when it doesn't go well. 

 

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEe2aq3qKmc

https://www.girlschase.com/article/why-do-girls-always-seem-go-wrong-guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4yA9SwsQa8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkwxdEVBe0U

 

Edited December 31, 2024 by Raze

[something_else]

It's not that women want bad boys, they just want interesting, unique and valuable men. Men who make them feel intense emotions. If all you have to offer is that you are 'nice' then that's kind of boring.

[Buck Edwards]

The video you described presents a harmful and inaccurate view of women and relationships. These are harmful stereotypes and do not reflect the reality of healthy relationships.

The idea that women are primarily interested in emasculating and controlling men is a harmful stereotype that perpetuates gender inequality. Women are complex individuals with diverse desires and goals, and their relationships are not driven by a desire to dominate or control men. Don't know what makes you think that. And what have women to gain from it. 

The suggestion that women are only attracted to men who show indifference or distance is equally harmful and inaccurate. Healthy relationships are built on mutual respect, trust, and open communication. While a little mystery can be intriguing, a lack of genuine care and emotional investment is unlikely to lead to a fulfilling and lasting relationship. Women like games, a bit of banter and charisma but not downright unhealthy behavior. Who doesn't like interesting personalities? Women want charm, something they can fantasies and desire just like men like women who look like a piece of art. Women want a bit of drama to stimulate them emotionally but not too much drama. 

The notion that being a "good man" makes women lose interest is completely false. Women value qualities like kindness, loyalty, and emotional support in their partners. These qualities are not signs of weakness but rather of strength and maturity. We value high quality partners as much as men do. Don't be fooled by such videos. 

It's understandable that you're confused by the conflicting messages you've received. But it's also because you're feeding into red pill a bit and it can potentially skew your outlook on healthy dating. If you want toxic dating, sure but then the consequence is a toxic partner, you shouldn't complain about it. 

 Don't try to manipulate or play games with your potential partners. Be genuine, kind, and respectful, and let your authentic self shine through. If you want genuine results, start with being genuine yourself. 

Let your potential partner know what you're looking for in a relationship and what your boundaries are. This will help you find someone who is compatible with you and values your needs. Women respect men with boundaries. A man without boundaries seems like a man lacking self respect. 

Being emotionally vulnerable is a sign of strength, not weakness. It allows you to connect with your potential partner on a deeper level and build a stronger relationship. I honestly love vulnerability in men. I highly treasure and value it. 

Healthy relationships are built on mutual respect, trust, and open communication. Don't be afraid to be yourself. 

[Tenebroso]

I share the experience. The more narcissistic and destructive you present as a man the more women seem to like you. Also, there is a vast gap between what women say they are attracted to and who they choose. The funny thing about all this toxic masculinity talk is that actually toxic men have zero issues attracting women, while regular guys are gaslighted into thinking there is something wrong with them. Maybe there is something wrong with women, maybe women are the ones that need to change, their preferences across demographics don't seem to be helping them.

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Shodburrito said:

I recently watched a video claiming that women's primary goal in relationships is to 'emasculate and control' men.

This is just nonsense.

Quote

He suggests that women are naturally drawn to 'bad boys' who create uncertainty and show they have other options, while they'll ultimately disrespect men who show genuine care and commitment. The video frames traditional relationship virtues (emotional availability, commitment, communication) as weaknesses that lead to losing a woman's interest.

You are misunderstanding how all of this works because you are failing to make some crucial distinctions.

You should distinguish the attraction phase vs the relationship phase. If you try to attract women by acting like their boyfriend prematurely, before you've even slept with them, that will fail.

Emotional availability, commitment, and communication is stuff that women value but only deep into a relationship, not on the first date.

Quote

When I act less available and more detached, women seem to pursue me more.

Of course. Because that's how attraction works. Nobody wants a desperate emotionally pathetic needy man who bends over backwards to please a woman who barely even knows he exists.

Women require a long time before they get invested in you.

Quote

This really depresses me because I don't want to be toxic or manipulative - I want to be genuine and caring. But I can't deny that showing less emotional investment often leads to more attraction.

You are just doing it wrong. You are trying to get women to sleep with you by hoping you can persuade them with emotional investment, but that's not how women work. They must sleep with you before they get emotionally invested in you.

Quote

Is there a way to be both caring and maintain healthy challenge/mystery in relationships? I don't want to play games, but I also don't want to fall into patterns that kill attraction.

Do not invest in women more than they invest in you, and do not try to act like you're in a relationship with them when they haven't even slept with you.

You are messing up the phases. You are investing too much too fast. You are too needy. And you are too stubborn about wanting attraction to work your way. You are making things too serious too soon. If you would just be light and fun, women would respond much better and then later you could get more serious after a few weeks or months.

Less is more. You are trying too hard. Instead of trying so hard, go talk to 50 other women and have fun. Only reply to them as much as they reply to you.

Edited December 31, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

5 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

The video you described presents a harmful and inaccurate view of women and relationships. These are harmful stereotypes and do not reflect the reality of healthy relationships.

The idea that women are primarily interested in emasculating and controlling men is a harmful stereotype that perpetuates gender inequality. Women are complex individuals with diverse desires and goals, and their relationships are not driven by a desire to dominate or control men. Don't know what makes you think that. And what have women to gain from it. 

The suggestion that women are only attracted to men who show indifference or distance is equally harmful and inaccurate. Healthy relationships are built on mutual respect, trust, and open communication. While a little mystery can be intriguing, a lack of genuine care and emotional investment is unlikely to lead to a fulfilling and lasting relationship. Women like games, a bit of banter and charisma but not downright unhealthy behavior. Who doesn't like interesting personalities? Women want charm, something they can fantasies and desire just like men like women who look like a piece of art. Women want a bit of drama to stimulate them emotionally but not too much drama. 

The notion that being a "good man" makes women lose interest is completely false. Women value qualities like kindness, loyalty, and emotional support in their partners. These qualities are not signs of weakness but rather of strength and maturity. We value high quality partners as much as men do. Don't be fooled by such videos. 

It's understandable that you're confused by the conflicting messages you've received. But it's also because you're feeding into red pill a bit and it can potentially skew your outlook on healthy dating. If you want toxic dating, sure but then the consequence is a toxic partner, you shouldn't complain about it. 

 Don't try to manipulate or play games with your potential partners. Be genuine, kind, and respectful, and let your authentic self shine through. If you want genuine results, start with being genuine yourself. 

Let your potential partner know what you're looking for in a relationship and what your boundaries are. This will help you find someone who is compatible with you and values your needs. Women respect men with boundaries. A man without boundaries seems like a man lacking self respect. 

Being emotionally vulnerable is a sign of strength, not weakness. It allows you to connect with your potential partner on a deeper level and build a stronger relationship. I honestly love vulnerability in men. I highly treasure and value it. 

Healthy relationships are built on mutual respect, trust, and open communication. Don't be afraid to be yourself. 

Bravo!!

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Tenebroso said:

I share the experience. The more narcissistic and destructive you present as a man the more women seem to like you. Also, there is a vast gap between what women say they are attracted to and who they choose. The funny thing about all this toxic masculinity talk is that actually toxic men have zero issues attracting women, while regular guys are gaslighted into thinking there is something wrong with them. Maybe there is something wrong with women, maybe women are the ones that need to change, their preferences across demographics don't seem to be helping them.

You're just staring at the wrong type of women, that's all. End of story. If one's story never changes, it's them. The world is revolving, but your perception of it remains the same. That's a red flag that something in you is static.  PERIOD. Same ole story for the last 5yrs.

Edited December 31, 2024 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

12 hours ago, Shodburrito said:

When I act less available and more detached, women seem to pursue me more.

May I ask what usually happens in this case. The women pursuing you - what's the usual outcome. I'm curious.

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Tenebroso said:

I share the experience. The more narcissistic and destructive you present as a man the more women seem to like you. Also, there is a vast gap between what women say they are attracted to and who they choose. The funny thing about all this toxic masculinity talk is that actually toxic men have zero issues attracting women, while regular guys are gaslighted into thinking there is something wrong with them. Maybe there is something wrong with women, maybe women are the ones that need to change, their preferences across demographics don't seem to be helping them.

You don't understand, what you understand about women is a mirror, women are the most brutal and effective mirrors for a man.

You are in fact the one who likes to play, who enjoys, to be the one who is enterprising and dominant even if it means being toxic.
But you have other beliefs that generate cognitive dissonance.

[Schizophonia]

3 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You're just staring at the wrong type of women, that's all. End of story. If one's story never changes, it's them. The world is revolving, but your perception of it remains the same. That's a red flag that something in you is static.  PERIOD.

There are no wrong type of women. 

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Schizophonia said:

There are no wrong type of women. 

Wrong type for him.

[Schizophonia]

8 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Wrong type for him.

I think that the more we complain about a phenomenon, the more it is actually a projection so I think that on the contrary he must go towards this kind of girl.
I think that is really what excites him.

 

But it is in "denial" because at the moment he is playing the game of hero and victim, and in this case the victim of the black pill. The victim game is based on the game of learned helplessness and the game of social integration. 🤔

Edited December 31, 2024 by Schizophonia

[Princess Arabia]

I know this forum is mostly male, but do you ever see any of the females on this forum making threads about toxic men and how men are this and how men are that in the dating world. How they've watched videos on dating and they say men are this and that, and is it true. No, we don't care about that stuff. We go out and see for ourselves and be with these men to get the experience for ourselves and decide from there and we don't need toxic videos about men to tell us anything. We're not afraid to delve right in and be hurt or whatever. We don't view this stuff logically and strategically. This is what happens when one is afraid to face life head on. We try to analyze everything and see life like some puzzle to be solved. Get out there and leave the thinking mind out of it and get your hands dirty. No one has the perfect formula for dating. You'd be surprised how chemistry works and it can lead to exciting and unexpected things that you can't strategize using the mind alone. 

[JTL]

@Leo Gura 

«relationship phase. If you try to attract women by acting like their boyfriend prematurely, before you've even slept with them, that will fail.

Emotional availability, commitment, and communication is stuff that women value but only deep into a relationship, not on the first date.» 

How should one act in attraction phase, I guess one should be conscious that you try to attract someone? 
 

Edited December 31, 2024 by JTL

[Schizophonia]

3 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I know this forum is mostly male, but do you ever see any of the females on this forum making threads about toxic men and how men are this and how men are that in the dating world. How they've watched videos on dating and they say men are this and that, and is it true. No, we don't care about that stuff. We go out and see for ourselves and be with these men to get the experience for ourselves and decide from there and we don't need toxic videos about men to tell us anything. We're not afraid to delve right in and be hurt or whatever. We don't view this stuff logically and strategically. This is what happens when one is afraid to face life head on. We try to analyze everything and see life like some puzzle to be solved. Get out there and leave the thinking mind out of it and get your hands dirty. No one has the perfect formula for dating. You'd be surprised how chemistry works and it can lead to exciting and unexpected things that you can't strategize using the mind alone. 

Women are not as enterprising as men, and have more ego for survival reasons; so you tend to deny your problems more.

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

Women are not as enterprising as men, and have more ego for survival reasons; so you tend to deny your problems more.

Phht!!!