Are you ready to give yourself up?

[Sugarcoat]

All you’ve ever experienced is what is right in front of you. Thoughts, sights, sounds, not even those things, the immediate appearance.

How come then when you for example read the news you really feel like there’s a real world out there with real events and people?

How come when you are in history class you really feel like there’s a past with real people and real events? And why can’t you shake this seeming sense of reality?
 

How come you can discuss all these topics in the forum and feel like it’s all real?

Because you have a self. That’s it. The self is the basis for everything. It’s the sense of I’m here and the world is out there. Real solidity here creates real solidity out there. This one separation, this one border between you and the rest gives rise to all else meaning. 
 

You can talk shit about this but are you really ready to give it all up? Because it includes everything, all your meaning making, all your sense of a society existing and events happening and people existing. All relating, relationships etc. It all goes down the drain.

All your discussing about this and that and feeling like what you’re discussing is real. Are you really ready to give up your entire reality? Because that is what you give up if you give up your self. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

You can talk shit about this but are you really ready to give it all up? Because it includes everything, all your meaning making, all your sense of a society existing and events happening and people existing. All relating, relationships etc. It all goes down the drain.

All your discussing about this and that and feeling like what you’re discussing is real. Are you really ready to give up your entire reality? Because that is what you give up if you give up your self. 

Yes because in the no form is everything that is in the form. Your mother, your friends, all your thoughts, and more: all that can be. everything it's in the total no form, the death, it's home. 

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes because in the no form is everything that is in the form. Your mother, your friends, all your thoughts, and more: all that can be. everything it's in the total no form, the death, it's home. 

I experienced an ~almost~ total loss of self and it was like an ~almost~ total loss of reality, so I assumed the ~total~ loss of self would be a total loss of reality, that’s what inspired this post. 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

I experienced an ~almost~ total loss of self and it was like an ~almost~ total loss of reality, so I assumed the ~total~ loss of self would be a total loss of reality, that’s what inspired this post. 

You have to experience the total loss of self more and get used to it to realize the absolute, which is the total reality. That's the thing about enlightenment, nothing else

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

You have to experience the total loss of self more and get used to it to realize the absolute, which is the total reality. That's the thing about enlightenment, nothing else

Through meditation for example?

[Ishanga]

@Sugarcoat Most do not want this, or total loss of Self, their live, family/friends, career and such, they just want less stress, more Ease, more Peace, and eventually overall Bliss and Well Being, and we are hardwired to be this way, just read a trip report, there is much fear when going on a strong trip, where is this fear coming from? Ego identity, self Identity, small little me and my situation identity, this is natural up until a point where it is not wanted, like going to grade school forever, sooner or later You want to go to high school, then college or university, and then to graduate right, its like this, but ppl get stuck along the way, or zig zag thru life, going in this direction then changing directions constantly, so they  are really living by accident, Being Conscious means living on purpose with a road map and clarity of knowing where exactly to go...

[PurpleTree]

Ye all this stuff is mostly boring anyway.

[Someone here]

@Sugarcoat good shit .

The problem is we think there is me here and a world there and me is looking at the world. That's duality. The observer is the observed. And this is meant literally. What you think is a screen right now that is being perceived by you via a medium of perception system (eyes) is actually what you are. You are not looking at the screen right now. You are the screen. And this is the case for any other duality. You and your thoughts are actually one thing. You and your feelings are actually one thing. Meaning there is no you that is feeling feelings.. The feelings are what you are. Evident by when there are no feelings there is no feeler as well. Similarly when there is no perceiver there are no perceptions.  And since there is in fact no duality between the perceiver and the perceived.. There is neither a you nor a world out there.. There is one unbroken actuality. And this is it. In this actuality there is actually no "you" and no "other". If you try to pin point where or what exactly is" you" in direct experience and what is or where exactly is "other" you will fail miserably. Because this boundary is completely imaginary. It's all one thing. There is no you right here perceiving a world out there. It's all here. Here is there. You is the world.  So what you call other people are literally you. The entire actuality of what's showing up in consciousness right now is you. Not just what you are  identified with as your body. The entire field of consciousness is you. From this place there is neither  you nor a world as two separate things. There is only what is. And what is.. Is one unbroken actuality with no divisions. If you lose that awareness of clarity and revert back to thinking that I am me right here looking at the world out there.. Then a question might arise about the nature of the relationship between me and the world.. Am I projecting the world? Imagining it like a dream that has no reality outside my own experience? Or is it just there and I m merely perceiving it..?. But the whole question is based on a false sense of self that is separate from the whole. In order to resolve this dilemma  you must sit down and kill yourself. Kill this illusory sense of I'm me here somewhere  inside this body. There is no self separate from the world. It's just a sense of self. Just a sense. It comes and goes Like all other senses. There is actually some centers in the brain responsible for the sense of the self .. If we shut down those centers in the brain you will go poof. You will be gone as a self. You were never real to begin with. But sure as hell you appear to be real. But if you sit down and try to draw the boundary between you and the world. You will discover you are literally the entire world. You are the totality of what is. 

[Ishanga]

@Someone here The Boundary is the Body and/or Sensory Body, so it is easy to draw a distinction between Me and the World, but at the same time it is also possible to expand this Sensory Body and make it encompass the Entire Universe, this is what the Spiritual Path is about, its a Potential, not a reality for those that are still in the Experience of Body is Me, my 5 sense organs are what is the boundary of my Experience beside what I feel within myself, so its relative, its not a set Truth until Experienced.

So what You said is True, but so is the person experiencing the opposite, that they are NOT Everything, no connection, all Separation from Everything, that is where work is to go from one experience to the other...

To just state 'This is the Truth" all else is false, is not totally correct, its too Absolutist, to focused on that Realm, which is not Relative at all, to encompass all of it, too see and understand the WHOLE picture, one has to see/Experience the Absolute in the Relative, which is why we are here as Humans, only we can do this, no other life form on this planet can...

To go from the absolute Relative Experience to the Absolute Experience in one big leap is dangerous IMO, it will totally mess someone up if they do this without stabilizing and ground work done before hand, its like giving a Homeless person a Billion Dollars, they will be worse off in the end...

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, Ishanga said:

@Sugarcoat Most do not want this, or total loss of Self, their live, family/friends, career and such, they just want less stress, more Ease, more Peace, and eventually overall Bliss and Well Being, and we are hardwired to be this way, just read a trip report, there is much fear when going on a strong trip, where is this fear coming from? Ego identity, self Identity, small little me and my situation identity, this is natural up until a point where it is not wanted, like going to grade school forever, sooner or later You want to go to high school, then college or university, and then to graduate right, its like this, but ppl get stuck along the way, or zig zag thru life, going in this direction then changing directions constantly, so they  are really living by accident, Being Conscious means living on purpose with a road map and clarity of knowing where exactly to go...

That’s true that’s what I want to. But I experienced an almost total loss of self which felt like an almost total loss of reality so it inspired this text. 

[Ishanga]

9 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

That’s true that’s what I want to. But I experienced an almost total loss of self which felt like an almost total loss of reality so it inspired this text. 

Yes, You had in your case a "Grand Experience" I would say, but there is still some karma at play that is not conscious to You yet, so what happens? A sort of panic maybe or resistance, so things of this nature have to be more slow and steady, like building a house or building, You don't put up the roof first, it will collapse without any walls, which will collapse if there is no foundation laid up first...

This is the problem with the non dualist here, too unbalanced and not seeing the whole picture, they are half right I would say, but half right is dangerous!

[Sugarcoat]

12 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Yes, You had in your case a "Grand Experience" I would say, but there is still some karma at play that is not conscious to You yet, so what happens? A sort of panic maybe or resistance, so things of this nature have to be more slow and steady, like building a house or building, You don't put up the roof first, it will collapse without any walls, which will collapse if there is no foundation laid up first...

This is the problem with the non dualist here, too unbalanced and not seeing the whole picture, they are half right I would say, but half right is dangerous!

In my case there wasnt resistance, because it wasn’t a ~total~ loss of self, that I’ve only kinda experienced on psychedelics. On psychedelics I felt uncomfortable yes so there’s always a risk of chewing off too much at once. 

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Ye all this stuff is mostly boring anyway.

I feel ready too

[Salvijus]

To drop attachment to life is easy. Are you ready to take responsibility for all of life instead? 

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

@Sugarcoat good shit .

The problem is we think there is me here and a world there and me is looking at the world. That's duality. The observer is the observed. And this is meant literally. What you think is a screen right now that is being perceived by you via a medium of perception system (eyes) is actually what you are. You are not looking at the screen right now. You are the screen. And this is the case for any other duality. You and your thoughts are actually one thing. You and your feelings are actually one thing. Meaning there is no you that is feeling feelings.. The feelings are what you are. Evident by when there are no feelings there is no feeler as well. Similarly when there is no perceiver there are no perceptions.  And since there is in fact no duality between the perceiver and the perceived.. There is neither a you nor a world out there.. There is one unbroken actuality. And this is it. In this actuality there is actually no "you" and no "other". If you try to pin point where or what exactly is" you" in direct experience and what is or where exactly is "other" you will fail miserably. Because this boundary is completely imaginary. It's all one thing. There is no you right here perceiving a world out there. It's all here. Here is there. You is the world.  So what you call other people are literally you. The entire actuality of what's showing up in consciousness right now is you. Not just what you are  identified with as your body. The entire field of consciousness is you. From this place there is neither  you nor a world as two separate things. There is only what is. And what is.. Is one unbroken actuality with no divisions. If you lose that awareness of clarity and revert back to thinking that I am me right here looking at the world out there.. Then a question might arise about the nature of the relationship between me and the world.. Am I projecting the world? Imagining it like a dream that has no reality outside my own experience? Or is it just there and I m merely perceiving it..?. But the whole question is based on a false sense of self that is separate from the whole. In order to resolve this dilemma  you must sit down and kill yourself. Kill this illusory sense of I'm me here somewhere  inside this body. There is no self separate from the world. It's just a sense of self. Just a sense. It comes and goes Like all other senses. There is actually some centers in the brain responsible for the sense of the self .. If we shut down those centers in the brain you will go poof. You will be gone as a self. You were never real to begin with. But sure as hell you appear to be real. But if you sit down and try to draw the boundary between you and the world. You will discover you are literally the entire world. You are the totality of what is. 

Exactly. More scientists should study this 

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Salvijus said:

To drop attachment to life is easy. Are you ready to take responsibility for all of life instead? 

What you mean by responsibility for all of life? How far does one’s responsibility stretch?

[Salvijus]

7 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

What you mean by responsibility for all of life? How far does one’s responsibility stretch?

Your sense of self is as large as your willingness to take responsibility for. What you feel responsible for is what you feel as part of yourself. What you don't feel responsible for you feel like it has nothing to do with you.

You can make your responsibility and sense of self to be total zero. Leading to complete detachment from life. Or you could make your responsibility and sense of self infinite, leading to infinite love and endless creativity which is but an expression of God's will/love. 

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Your sense of self is as large as your willingness to take responsibility for. What you feel responsible for is what you feel as part of yourself. What you don't feel responsible for you feel like it has nothing to do with you.

You can make your responsibility and sense of self to be total zero. Leading to complete detachment from life. Or you could make your responsibility and sense of self infinite, leading to infinite love and endless creativity which is but an expression of God's will/love. 

That’s one perspective. But I don’t see it as how self works. Greta Thunberg taking responsibility for the whole climate isn’t extending her sense of self out to it, she’s still identified as little limited Greta 

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

That’s one perspective. But I don’t see it as how self works. Greta Thunberg taking responsibility for the whole climate isn’t extending her sense of self out to it, she’s still identified as little limited Greta 

Allow me to give an example. 

If you were growing a garden and somebody ripped it out, you'd feel like they ripped a part of you. 

If someone ripped out a garden from somebody else's garden that you're not responsible for. You'd feel as if it has nothing to do with you. 

[Ishanga]

15 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

What you mean by responsibility for all of life? How far does one’s responsibility stretch?

Salvijus answered above, my interpretation of it I learned in Sadhguru's IE course, Responsibility means my Ability to Respond, if You limit it, then You limit Life itself as You experience it within You, if it is unlimited then Your Life will open up big time.

In basic language it means for most ppl they are only Responding to what is important to them, their own lives, family/Friends, small communities or what interests them.. Lots of this is based of Your Likes and Dislikes, the more diverse and long this list is, the more conflicted and un responsive You will be, if You delete Your list of Likes/Dislikes, or stop Identifying with it, then again Life opens up, Your Available to all of it, not just what is around You and what You deem important, not important, you won't respond to what is not important or of value to You, that means Your not allowing that aspect of Life to come into Your Perception or Awareness, hence Your conflicted and divided and separate from Life, not One, Complete and Whole...