Why there has to be a self?

[Sugarcoat]

I think about the self a bit. I am like that I think about the most fundamental thing in reality. Seemingly “obvious” things.

I thought to myself why there has to be a self. It’s a quite tragic phenomena like Jim Newman has said and I agree. No matter how we flip it we can’t overlook the tremendous suffering in the world that all boils down to having a self. Am I not right? No self would entail no suffering. Who would suffer? Even physical pain wouldn’t be suffering without a self or am I wrong? 
If so, maybe the self is needed to avoid physical pain to sustain the body’s survival?

Why did evolution have to create an ego? What’s the purpose? Is it needed for conceptual thinking maybe? Can you think conceptually without a self? Is it needed for daily functioning? I mean some non dualists say you function just as well without a self. So why did it have to arise at all? It must be serving a function otherwise it wouldn’t arise right? 
 

Maybe I sound negative. But that’s how I been feeling lately. Battling with the most fundamental thing in reality. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Sugarcoat

[Schizophonia]

It's just a possibility. 

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Schizophonia said:

It's just a possibility. 

The self is a possibility? 

[Schizophonia]

2 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

The self is a possibility? 

Yes. 

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

Yes. 

You mean it’s not real?

 

[Ishanga]

10 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I think about the self a bit. I am like that I think about the most fundamental thing in reality. Seemingly “obvious” things.

I thought to myself why there has to be a self. It’s a quite tragic phenomena like Jim Newman has said and I agree. No matter how we flip it we can’t overlook the tremendous suffering in the world that all boils down to having a self. Am I not right? No self would entail no suffering. Who would suffer? Even physical pain wouldn’t be suffering without a self or am I wrong? 
 

Why did evolution have to create an ego? What’s the purpose? Is it needed for conceptual thinking maybe? Can you think conceptually without a self? Is it needed for daily functioning? I mean some non dualists say you function just as well without a self. So why did it have to arise at all? It must be serving a function otherwise it wouldn’t arise right? 
 

Maybe I sound negative. But that’s how I been feeling lately. Battling with the most fundamental thing in reality. 

You only ask Why if Suffering is involved, most all Why questions (when it comes to existential questions) come from a POV of Suffering, if You were Blissed out would  You ask Why? Probably not, You'd be busy enjoying the Bliss.

Ego is there to allow You to have a sense of Individuality, this is there because it brings forth in existence a Unique Life Form, Life itself is the representation of Absolute in a Manifested form in this realm we call planet Earth, that has Duality and Karma and Free Will.  Ego just allows Absolute to experience itself in trillions of ways, without Ego then this uniqueness would not come about.  Ego is there for other reasons as well, but I think this is the primary.. Identification with Ego is the problem, not the existence of the Ego itself, its needed to survive in a society and world where in the end we need to function with others...

Self is just a combination of everything that encompasses what we are made up of, a Body, Mind, Emotions, Energy, Ego, Free Will, Consciousness, Awareness, mostly Unlimited Potential and Possibility...

Edited December 30, 2024 by Ishanga

[PurpleTree]

So that you can let it dissolve.

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Ishanga said:

You only ask Why if Suffering is involved, most all Why questions (when it comes to existential questions) come from a POV of Suffering, if You were Blissed out would  You ask Why? Probably not, You'd be busy enjoying the Bliss.

Very much true

Just now, Ishanga said:

Ego is there to allow You to have a sense of Individuality, this is there because it brings forth in existence a Unique Life Form, Life itself is the representation of Absolute in a Manifested form in this realm we call planet Earth, that has Duality and Karma and Free Will.  Ego just allows Absolute to experience itself in trillions of ways, without Ego then this uniqueness would not come about.  Ego is there for other reasons as well, but I think this is the primary.. Identification with Ego is the problem, not the existence of the Ego itself, its needed to survive in a society and world where in the end we need to function with others...

Self is just a combination of everything that encompasses what we are made up of, a Body, Mind, Emotions, Energy, Ego, Free Will, Consciousness, Awareness, most Unlimited Potential and Possibility...

Understood I think

[Schizophonia]

3 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

You mean it’s not real?

 

I mean it's relative.

It's real ofc, you either experience it or you don't.

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

So that you can let it dissolve.

The ultimate goal

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Schizophonia said:

I mean it's relative.

It's real ofc, you either experience it or you don't.

Yea or you can be something in between like me and ~barely~ feel real

[Candle]

14 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Even physical pain wouldn’t be suffering without a self or am I wrong? 

A dog has no self. Doesn't it suffer from physical pain? @Sugarcoat

Edited December 30, 2024 by Candle

[Xonas Pitfall]

Because nothing would then exist to be "experienced" or differentiated - it’s the classic "If a tree makes a sound and no one hears it, does it make a sound?"

Consciousness, or "observance," requires two differentiated selves or points of view for each to exist. If no one were there to know of Sugarcoat, and if Sugarcoat weren’t defined by any bounds of reality, as an individuated self Sugarcoat couldn’t exist - she would dissolve into nothingness, emptiness, or God. 

Something must stubbornly remain one way and not another; this principle manifests in both the physical, emotional, and spiritual realms. If all physical objects were infinitely fluid, changeable, or transmutable, there would be constant chaos and no stable structures or rules to define reality.

Similarly, if emotions lacked weight or meaning and were infinitely fluid (like a fleeting joke) then the depth of love, beauty, the pull of passion, and other profound feelings would not necessarily exist. This concept, though cliché in non-duality teachings—"without darkness, there can be no light"—holds deep truth, especially when contemplating the nature of the self in the highest spiritual sense.

God "needs" to experience everything because He is everything and can only be everything. Hence, limitations and rigid, concrete, stable forms must also exist. 

Limitation provides depth as much as expansion can.

We, as humans, (sadly or luckily) happen to resemble God more in this sense. We possess metacognition - the ability to think about our own thinking - a self-referential quality. Since God is infinite, those creatures in God’s mind had to eventually exist.

Having a self or awareness is profoundly beautiful - the ability to take in the beauty of others into your own consciousness and merge with it to a delightful degree. The difficulty comes with suffering, but that’s the "deal" we get. You have a defined self that is conscious and can explore, take in the world, parts of God’s mind. But in being defined, vulnerable to change, needing specific requirements for a good life and survival - and in a universe that is infinitely impermanent - we suffer.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Xonas Pitfall

[Javfly33]

The self is your creation.

Is important to not buy into victim-like narratives such as like Life is in a certain way and you can not do anything about It.

Because fundamentally there is no duality between you and Life, or you and reality, so then whatever is happening that is what you are creating.

Regarding The self, the self is an internal job. If It was Reality creation you could never break out of It. If It was an external Creation there would not be possibility of going beyond It.

But is entirely your making. Your bondage. Your trap of your own dream. So in the same way you have created It you can absolutely stop doing It.

In summary: there doesn't have to be a self. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Javfly33

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Candle said:

A dog has no self. Doesn't it suffer from physical pain? @Sugarcoat

How do you know it has no self?

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

The ultimate goal

Don't think of it as a Goal, think and understand it as Life Embodied as we are, with all the Potential that is within it, Ultimately it wants complete Freedom, that means no Body, No Mind, No Self, No Individuality, No Embodiment, just complete Freedom and Liberation.. This is the basis of all Desires, if You look at it in depth, what is it that You are Desiring??? 

[Candle]

31 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

How do you know it has no self?

How do you know it has self? What do u think? It has or has not? 

What is your definition of self? 

I define self as the psychological layer. 

It has no psychological layer, only physical layer. Humans have psychological layer too. That's why humans suffer more. 

Dogs have more ability to tolerate pain. Humans complain and fret, dogs don't. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Candle

[James123]

@Sugarcoat it is the gift of Nothingness.

[WelcometoReality]

31 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

So why did it have to arise at all? It must be serving a function otherwise it wouldn’t arise right? 

A survival mechanism perhaps. 

[PurpleTree]

21 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

The ultimate goal

You seemed to have made progress recently though no?

Although there’s no you, there’s no progress and theres no recently.  ⛄️