1x1=1 or 1x1=2 Terrence Howard

[integral]

https://www.actualized.org/insights/terrence-howard-stupidity

Multiplication is like a shortcut for adding the same number over and over. For example, if you want to add 3 together 2 times, you can just multiply 2 by 3. So, 2x3 means you're adding 3 twice, which is 3+3=6. Similarly, 1x1 means you're adding 1 to itself once, which is just 1. This shows that multiplication is really just a quick way to do repeated addition. And all the more complex math operations are built on these simple ideas.

3x2=6 because 2+2+2=6

3x2 means add 2 over and over again 3 times in a row. 2+2+2=6

It's a man-made human invention modeling a very important part of the real world. Where we have objects and then we can group them together.

1x1=1 because +1=1

This also works with decimals.

0.5 x 2 means you're adding 0.5 twice, which is 0.5 + 0.5 = 1. The concept still applies.

0.5 * 0.5 means you're adding 0.5 to itself half a time, which is 0.25.

With negative numbers, multiplication still follows the same logic but with a twist. For example, -3 x 2 means you're adding -3 twice, which is -3 + (-3) = -6. Similarly, 3 x -2 means you're adding -2 three times, which is -2 + (-2) + (-2) = -6. When you multiply two negative numbers, like -3 x -2, you're essentially adding 2 three times, but since you're dealing with negatives, the result is positive: 2 + 2 + 2 = 6. So, the concept of multiplication as repeated addition still applies, but you need to consider the signs.

Edited December 28, 2024 by integral

[Hojo]

My understanding of the argument is that multiplication is adding to something.

1x1 isnt adding anything so by definition isn't multiplying anything. Multiplying another 1 would make it 2.

Multiplying 1x1 isn't doing multiplication by definition. To multiply is to make more. You aren't multiplying 1x1 you aren't doing anything to the number.

If I had an apple and bet you money  I could multiply the apple and did absolutely nothing you would call me a scammer. I could say I was doing correct math.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Hojo

[integral]

@Hojo

You're confusing multiplication with division.

If we take something and divide it in half, now we have two pieces! But the problem is, each piece is smaller, and so the sum is still 1.

Also, you could be confusing it with duplication. If you duplicate something, you get two of it.

But we're not doing duplication; we're doing multiplication. Duplication is defined as 1x2=2.

If we call it duplication, you would say: 1 duplicated by 1 equals 2, and that seems to be a correct statement.

Duplication would have a completely different rule set defined by math.

No one seems to understand; multiplication is just defined as a specific algorithm.

Terrence thinks that the meaning of the word "multiplication" should be subjectively something else, therefore, we should redefine how we do multiplication.

But math isn't a property of the universe; it's a property of definitions. We are not talking about something fundamental to the reality of nature. Math is just something humans invented; we just selected a term, chose a word, and gave it meaning.

There is no universal representation of multiplication as a fundamental property of the universe.

This is what Terrence thinks is happening with Math, he thinks math is fundamental to the universe.

He thinks multiplication should be defined as something else because that is truer to the Universal Property of the universe that we are modeling.

Math is a bunch of stupid monkeys counting on their fingers.

Edited December 29, 2024 by integral

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, integral said:

There is no universal representation of multiplication as a fundamental property of the universe.

Math is a bunch of stupid monkeys counting on their fingers.

Very dubious statements.

[mmKay]

hot take

1x1 = 1x1

 

Whenever you say "a thing" is equal to " something else than that thing" you're engaging in human-made social constructs of systems of symbols, language, logic and meanings that work with rules that have to be followed in a coherent and strict way for it to make sense.

If you want , 1x1 could equal ( mean ) giving your microwaved frozen dinner to your dog if you had an inside joke with your friends about that.

Mathematics is a language , a system of concepts , logic , meanings and symbols

1x1=2 can be true , but either you're not respecting the logic of the agreed upon system of meanings or your definition of multiplication or equation is not the same as conventional mathematics.

Muddying the waters with fuzzy mathematical language, misapplying  logic and not respecting conventional concepts is not doing real maths.

On the other hand maths is not all relative and engaging with abstract concepts while respecting the logic of the language allows you to dig and explore deeper into the infinity if mathematics , which have real actual real life applications ( and some don't / can't have)

Howard has accidentally poked at something arguably profound for the average Joe, which is the relativity of language , meaning and concepts ( it's really not that profound in the scope of insights  into reallity that you can have really) but he doesn't understand actually understand what he's poking at if his life depended on it 

This guy spoke at Oxford btw 

Edited December 29, 2024 by mmKay

[Leo Gura]

You can define/construct multiplication in various ways, however you want, but then you must be consistent in your application of that definition. That is the problem with Howard's approach.

If Howard eats one pizza once a day, how many pizzas did he eat if one day passed?

2 pizzas?

Edited December 29, 2024 by Leo Gura

[gambler]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

You can define/construct multiplication in various ways, however you want, but then you must be consistent in your application of that defintion. That is the problem with Howard's approach.

If Howard eats one pizza once a day, how many pizzas did he eat if one day passed?

2 pizzas?

This is a good point. Math is a language, so its application to problems expressed linguistically has to be coherent if it’s a coherent language. Otherwise what are you expressing. You’d have this mess. 

[integral]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Very dubious statements.

How are you defining fundamental to the universe?

I’m viewing math as a very useful tool for human survival and a projection onto everything.

So the point I’m making was Howard thinks multiplication should be defined differently because there’s a more fundamental way to define it when really you were already already projecting our psychology onto the universe and it’s just man-made definitions to begin with.

 

[Leo Gura]

If your wife gives birth to 1 child 1 time, congrats, you are now the father of 2 children.

Act fast, God's giving away two for the price of one! 

Terrance Howard logic.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

If a hundred crocodiles attacked Leo, how many crocodiles died? 

[Leo Gura]

I prefer to see multiplication as groupings vs addition.

One group of one is one.

Ten groups of ten is one hundred.

This notion of grouping then fits nicely with the notion of division.

One group of any number is then equal to itself. One 6-pack of Coke is 6.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Candle]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I prefer to see multiplication as groupings vs addition.

One group of one is one.

Ten groups of ten is one hundred.

This notion of grouping then fits nicely with the notion of division.

Why are you teaching about kindergarten stuff? 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Candle said:

Why are you teaching about kindergarten stuff? 

The foundations are mathematics is not kindergarten stuff, it is serious work that even university professors don't fully grasp.

Entire books have been written trying to explain the foundations of basic arithmetic and stuff like 1+1=2. It's not obvious what makes math true.

I took an entire graduate level philosophy class on 1+1=2. I dropped out of the class because it was too hard.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

6 minutes ago, Candle said:

Why are you teaching about kindergarten stuff? 

Am I on your ignore list? 

[Candle]

10 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

Am I on your ignore list? 

No baby.

 

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The foundations are mathematics is not kindergarten stuff, it is serious work that even university professors don't fully grasp.

Entire books have been written trying to explain the foundations of basic arithmetic and stuff like 1+1=2. It's not at all obvious what makes math true.

 

Don't talk about university profs cz they are not philosophers. 

Multiplication is nothing but counting.

To indicate things, we use symbols like *. 

10 * 10 = 100 . It's about memorizing that 10 * 10 is 100. Bcz this is true when you actually COUNT. It's nothing but memorization and knowledge. It's nothing else. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Candle

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Candle said:

Don't talk about university profs cz they are not philosophers. 

They are. Especially in cases like these which is technical analytic philosophy.

Philosophy of mathematics is a serious field. You can get a PhD in it.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Candle said:

It's about memorizing that 10 * 10 is 100.

It certainly is not that.

Computers perform multiplication. They are not just reading answers off some pre-calculated table.

You can build a mechanical, physical, multiplication machine. That is the basis for all CPUs and GPUs.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Candle]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Philosophy of mathematics is a serious field.

Isn't it an illusion? Who knows? You once were saying in a video you have reached the end of philosophy and you know everything about the universe. So why haven't you cracked what's mathematics? I guess maths is a dream..

Is it possible to crack everything? How should I approach it? 

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

certainly is not that.

Isn't it true that maths is just the representation of reality and nothing else? It has some patterns too, which intrigue us. 

Edited December 29, 2024 by Candle

[integral]

@Candle

I'll help break down the fundamental mathematical properties from multiplication down to the most basic concepts, showing how each builds on simpler operations:

Multiplication → Addition
- Multiplication is repeated addition (e.g., 3 × 4 is adding 3 four times: 3 + 3 + 3 + 3)

Addition → Succession/Incrementation
- Addition is repeated succession (e.g., 3 + 2 is starting at 3 and incrementing twice: 3 → 4 → 5)

Succession → Natural Numbers
- Succession is the operation of "going to the next number" (e.g., 3's successor is 4)
- This is built on the concept of natural numbers and the "next" relationship

Natural Numbers → Counting
- Natural numbers are built on the concept of counting discrete quantities
- Counting relies on one-to-one correspondence between numbers and objects

Counting → Unity/Oneness
- Counting is built on understanding "one" as a unit
- The concept of "one" comes from recognizing distinct, individual entities

Unity → Distinctness
- Unity requires the ability to distinguish one thing from another
- This relies on the concept of boundaries or separation between entities

Distinctness → Existence
- The most fundamental property is existence itself
- The ability to recognize that something "is" or "is not"
- This forms the basis for all mathematical reasoning and logic

----------
The end is existence it self. So we are not simply talking about numbers, we are trying to model reality. But what is existence and what are we modeling and what is the entanglement between us and the model? 

Edited December 29, 2024 by integral

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Candle said:

...you know everything about the universe.

I didn't say that.

I understand reality from an absolute level, not in all its detail and endless forms.

Quote

Is it possible to crack everything? How should I approach it? 

It's unknown what can be cracked until you try.

You have to put skin in the game. You have to risk something.

Quote

Isn't it true that maths is just the representation of reality and nothing else?

Is that true?

Maybe there's more to math than that.

Contemplate: What is math and what makes it work?

Edited December 29, 2024 by Leo Gura