Truth vs. Bliss: Is Truth-Seeking Even Possible?

[AtmanIsBrahman]

An issue I've been grappling with for a long time is the bliss vs truth dilemma in spirituality. A lot of people who practice spirituality do it to achieve a happier state, whether they frame it as escaping suffering, having peace of mind, or experiencing divine bliss. But spirituality should be truth-seeking, and when truth is your goal it doesn't matter if you feel blissful, sad, energetic, or slightly despondent. You are searching for what is actually the case, asking what is reality really.

When spiritual teachers like Sadhguru say, "Would you rather be blissful or sad? Blissful, yes... isn't it?" and then people inevitably say yes, I can't help but see this as a spiritual deception. To an actual truth seeker, it isn't enough to just pick blissfulness over negativity. Blissfulness, based on our typical drive for experiencing positive emotions, seems better, but does it actually lead to truth? Maybe, maybe not. You can't make that assumption! And I see spiritual people doing this all the time. 

Then there's an even deeper issue, which is what truth seeking really is. It only takes a little consciousness to see that everything we do is motivated by desire for one thing or another that always circles back to the self, sometimes directly and sometimes more indirectly. If you haven't grasped this notion, contemplate it, and you will see that it's true, similar to how everything in the universe can always be traced back to oneness- nonduality 101. So even searching for truth is just a desire that's ultimately arbitrary and only for the purpose of your own fulfilment.

The problem with just going for bliss is that in choosing that path and not knowing whether it leads to truth or not, you're essentially giving into the relativity of your experience and just going with what feels right thinking that everything is relative. And if you are going for bliss, you don't have a guarantee that it will lead to truth- it may be the opposite. So then the spiritual seeker (which is my situation right now) is in a dilemma of wanting to pursue truth but not knowing whether it exists or is just based on desire. 

Hopefully it was clear what I'm trying to get at. This is an existential quagmire about truth, bliss. and relativity. I'd appreciate any insights people have, especially @Leo Gura as a truth-seeker.

 

 

 

[puporing]

29 minutes ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

And I see spiritual people doing this all the time. 

yes and that is precisely why I refrain from going around telling people for example that "God is actually sad", lol, mainstream spirituality have taught people that this cannot be the case because none of the spiritual teachers are "sad". It will immediately be rebuked by seemingly reasonable sounding lines. So I remain hidden to your consciousness for the foreseeable future partly due to the phenomenon you've described .

Edited December 26, 2024 by puporing

[AtmanIsBrahman]

9 minutes ago, puporing said:

God is actually sad

Interesting, what do you mean by that? Can you expand on it?

[puporing]

13 minutes ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

Interesting, what do you mean by that? Can you expand on it?

Some top reasons are..

Almost nobody here has remembered it (the God I am talking about) but they stop short of reaching it and think they have found God when they haven't. And due to that the true God is still cut off and not known in this world.  

This being is generally not welcomed in this world, despite the seemingly "large following", nor can people recognize it easily.. 

It is hyper aware of things and has to watch all the falsehoods, corruptions, tragedies unfold in this world and there's not very much it can do about it, or if it did, it might get itself killed like last time (or metaphorically speaking).

Edited December 26, 2024 by puporing

[Willie]

Truth has no obligation to be pleasant.

[Javfly33]

The Bliss that is being talked about is Braman itself, is not a psychological Happy state, like the one could get from transactions in the world.

Bliss is a natural result of You losing identification with anything, and is identical to ultimate Liberation and Enlightment.

How would It feel to finally be Free? Blissful, of course.

 

Nirvana Shatakam mantra says:

"I am the form of consciousness and Bliss, I am Shiva (that which is Not)".

 

Nice you mention Sadhguru, here's his take on It:

 Nirvana means "formless." The Nirvana Shatakam is towards this – you don’t want to be either this or that. If you don’t want to be this nor that, then what do you want to be? Your mind cannot understand this because your mind always wants to be something. If I say, “I don’t want to be this; I don’t want to be that,” you would think, “Oh something super!” Not super. “Oh, so emptiness?” Not emptiness.“Nothingness?” Not nothingness. That’s what is being conveyed through this chant.

Edited December 26, 2024 by Javfly33

[Someone here]

@Javfly33 is your goal in spiritual work to achieve Truth or lasting happiness and freedom from suffering?  (I call the first awakening and the latter liberation) And why can't the two be combined? 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Someone here

[cistanche_enjoyer]

Once you fully realize Truth you will also realize infinite bliss and love. 
If you don’t, then you haven’t fully realized Truth.

[Ishanga]

Also, Bliss is not the Goal, but with Bliss You smooth out the path to Enlightenment and Truth, so if Your naturally Blissful Your path to Enlightenment is most guaranteed and easier, and Sadhguru says this as well, he also said even Bliss can get boring and used to, so don't get caught up in things like that, if Your intensity to know and be intouch with Truth is there, You'll not be denied it...

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Also, Bliss is not the Goal, but with Bliss You smooth out the path to Enlightenment and Truth, so if Your naturally Blissful Your path to Enlightenment is most guaranteed and easier, and Sadhguru says this as well, he also said even Bliss can get boring and used to, so don't get caught up in things like that, if Your intensity to know and be intouch with Truth is there, You'll not be denied it...

Let's just suppose that truth is an awful thing or bad news .would you sacrifice your happiness to know the truth at any cost or would you deny the awful truth to live in delusional happiness? 

what If truth turns out to be the last thing you ever wanted as it was revealed to me that truth is solipsism. And it means you are absolutely alone as God? 

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Let's just suppose that truth is an awful thing or bad news .would you sacrifice your happiness to know the truth at any cost or would you deny the awful truth to live in delusional happiness? 

what If truth turns out to be the last thing you ever wanted as it was revealed to me that truth is solipsism. And it means you are absolutely alone as God? 

I do think because being intouch with Truth is associated with Bliss or "Heaven" that ppl do search for it and go on the Spiritual Path, there's no denying that, but I think that its true, if Your intouch with Truth You will be Blissful..

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I do think because being intouch with Truth is associated with Bliss or "Heaven" that ppl do search for it and go on the Spiritual Path, there's no denying that, but I think that its true, if Your intouch with Truth You will be Blissful..

Yup.. that's why I said "people seek truth because they think by getting to truth they will get happiness". I'm not denying this . Doesn't that reveal that happiness is of greater value than truth?  What we are really after is simply feeling good .we don't want nothing to do with truth .we just want to feel awesome .

Am I wrong here ? Can truth and happiness seeking be separated? 

Is The reason why you ultimately can't separate truth from happiness is because truth is not something we need to "accept" (ultimately)?  Because if it is .. it means that there's resistance to it. And if there's resistance to it..it means that there's still some breathing room for dualities (subtle as they may be).

Truth is supposed to be so absolute that it will not leave you any room for doubt or "not accepting". You understand what I mean? 

My struggle with accepting solipsism as truth  means I'm deluded and are now suffering because of it (which is literally the number one reason for suffering in general). 

 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

@Javfly33 is your goal in spiritual work to achieve Truth or lasting happiness and freedom from suffering?  (I call the first awakening and the latter liberation) And why can't the two be combined? 

I dont care much about Truth, Only freedom. They probably can be combined 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Javfly33

[Ishanga]

21 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I dont care much about Truth, Only freedom. They probably can be combined 

What is Truth anyways, from what I understand the more Your Intouch with Truth/Reality the more Blissful You are Naturally!

[Javfly33]

9 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

What is Truth anyways, from what I understand the more Your Intouch with Truth/Reality the more Blissful You are Naturally!

Yes, most people say It like that.

I like to include everything as "Truth", because being punched in the face is also Truth isn't It ? LoL.

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Let's just suppose that truth is an awful thing or bad news .would you sacrifice your happiness to know the truth at any cost or would you deny the awful truth to live in delusional happiness? 

what If truth turns out to be the last thing you ever wanted as it was revealed to me that truth is solipsism. And it means you are absolutely alone as God? 

Truth is in fact the worst thing ever.

All my hopes and plans and dreams and lovers and legacies and largess got flushed down the toilet.

But that's okay because that's just from an ego perspective.

All that I was taught about this world is pie in the sky.

There is a much better reality sitting in the wings as soon as I'm ready. 

(There is true there is false and there is TRUE.

TRUE is that everything here is false no matter how true it seems - bar one thing namely me.

The world isn't anything except a fanciful thought I had and just as quickly let go of.)

[UnbornTao]

Truth is what is now, about any matter--unveiling it is the goal. You may be overlooking that freedom and bliss often come about as side effects of increased consciousness. Pursuing them by themselves hinders an open investigation, which is essential in this work. It is easy to fool oneself--what you might be after is a better experience or an ideal. Also, one can't free himself from something he's not conscious of, ergo what's true about it. 

Using an extremely inaccurate metaphor, you are asking for intimacy and emotional closeness while foregoing communication. It seems the former can't occur without the latter.

Edited December 27, 2024 by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

Happiness is the inevitable consequence of real detachment. Real detachment is only possible with openness to the absolute. Happiness is the absence of suffering, suffering is contraction, attachment, desire, living at the superficial level of perception. At this level you can minimize suffering by trying to satisfy your needs, that is, being directed by the evolutionary force and collaborating with it, which is not "bad", but it enslaves you. If you want to be free you have to take a step back, understand what perceived reality is and detach yourself from it as much as possible.

[Someone here]

42 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

Truth is in fact the worst thing ever.

All my hopes and plans and dreams and lovers and legacies and largess got flushed down the toilet.

But that's okay because that's just from an ego perspective.

All that I was taught about this world is pie in the sky.

There is a much better reality sitting in the wings as soon as I'm ready. 

(There is true there is false and there is TRUE.

TRUE is that everything here is false no matter how true it seems - bar one thing namely me.

The world isn't anything except a fanciful thought I had and just as quickly let go of.)

sounds tough bro . Tell me the most harsh radical truth you've ever discovered. I want my reality ripped apart . No Christmas gifts for me I guess 

[gettoefl]

24 minutes ago, Someone here said:

sounds tough bro . Tell me the most harsh radical truth you've ever discovered. I want my reality ripped apart . No Christmas gifts for me I guess 

That nobody has a clue.

This is the most crushing truth to discover.

Every minute of life up to that point had been an utter waste.

Now I could get serious for the first time.