Truth vs. Bliss: Is Truth-Seeking Even Possible?

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

Truth is in fact the worst thing ever.

All my hopes and plans and dreams and lovers and legacies and largess got flushed down the toilet.

But that's okay because that's just from an ego perspective.

All that I was taught about this world is pie in the sky.

There is a much better reality sitting in the wings as soon as I'm ready. 

(There is true there is false and there is TRUE.

TRUE is that everything here is false no matter how true it seems - bar one thing namely me.

The world isn't anything except a fanciful thought I had and just as quickly let go of.)

Why adopt such a disposition? It's just what's true now, no negative or positive. 

[gettoefl]

Just now, UnbornTao said:

Why adopt such a disposition? It's just what's true now, no negative or positive. 

Everything is equally false in this time-honored illusion.

There is no better or worse.

It has to be seen to be an illusion and then swiftly exited.

True is the absolute realm which cannot entertain notions of falseness or else it wouldn't be true.

The absolute is ignorant of this world but perfectly accepting of our desire to dream up new frontiers.

This world is a needless yet easily correctable deviation from what we are.

You are simply mistaken, my brother, but there is another way of seeing available.

[WelcometoReality]

@AtmanIsBrahman People are conditioned that way. That doesn't impact you though. What do you want?

[Ishanga]

21 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

Everything is equally false in this time-honored illusion.

There is no better or worse.

It has to be seen to be an illusion and then swiftly exited.

True is the absolute realm which cannot entertain notions of falseness or else it wouldn't be true.

The absolute is ignorant of this world but perfectly accepting of our desire to dream up new frontiers.

This world is a needless yet easily correctable deviation from what we are.

You are simply mistaken, my brother, but there is another way of seeing available.

Better or Worse is on the Relative Level, there are levels to existence, Absolute is not here, its another sort of Realm, we can be intouch with it, experience it within ourselves, that is all, but what is going on here on this Earth/Planet there are definitely Better and Worse conditions, deny that and You deny reality which encompasses all realms and potentials..!

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

That nobody has a clue.

This is the most crushing truth to discover.

Every minute of life up to that point had been an utter waste.

Now I could get serious for the first time.

That's kindergarten.  I expected something more traumatising. Dude I've  discovered that everything and everyone are full of shit when I was 8 years old 

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

Better or Worse is on the Relative Level, there are levels to existence, Absolute is not here, its another sort of Realm, we can be intouch with it, experience it within ourselves, that is all, but what is going on here on this Earth/Planet there are definitely Better and Worse conditions, deny that and You deny reality which encompasses all realms and potentials..!

I think we're in agreement here.

[gettoefl]

37 minutes ago, Someone here said:

That's kindergarten.  I expected something more traumatising. Dude I've  discovered that everything and everyone are full of shit when I was 8 years old 

Me too. 

Then I acted upon it.

Life won't like you anymore.

I am the perennial  party pooper.

I am just glad I saw this in time to do something about it.

[UnbornTao]

@gettoefl Getting philosophical doesn't make it real for oneself. Tell the truth about what you experience, it's fine. Acknowledging we have no idea is more productive, and from that investigation can occur. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by UnbornTao

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

So even searching for truth is just a desire that's ultimately arbitrary and only for the purpose of your own fulfilment.

The problem with just going for bliss is that in choosing that path and not knowing whether it leads to truth or not, you're essentially giving into the relativity of your experience and just going with what feels right thinking that everything is relative. And if you are going for bliss, you don't have a guarantee that it will lead to truth- it may be the opposite. So then the spiritual seeker (which is my situation right now) is in a dilemma of wanting to pursue truth but not knowing whether it exists or is just based on desire. 

1) You are correct in that you cannot know ahead of time whether you will ever find truth or whether it even exists. But what you're overlooking is that no such gaurantee is needed. You can explore consciousness without needing any gaurantees from it. That is the way.

2) Why is desire for truth a problem? If you value truth, then pursue it and enjoy the process. Is your desire arbitrary? Even if it is, so what? In a sense, anything you choose to do is arbitrary. And you gotta do something either way. But also, maybe your desire is more than just that. Maybe it has a profound divine source. You don't know yet so don't jump to conclusions.

3) Pursuing bliss is a rather dubious idea. A mature mind isn't motivated by promises of raw pleasure. But there is a more advanced notion of bliss that might be a valid path. If you actually pursue the goal of being unconditionally at peace in all of life's situations, and you go about that seriously, then you will eventually discover that it leads you to Truth. But you must be careful not to confuse this with pleasure-seeking. This would be real bliss.

4) In the end, Truth and Bliss will be identical. But you can climb the same mountain from opposite sides.

[gettoefl]

11 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@gettoefl Tell the truth about what you experience and live as. I can also get philosophical but it is not real for myself, in my experience, just a notion or wish. We can start by acknowledging we have no idea, that's more productive, and start looking into things from that. But again, what one makes up is pretty irrelevant when it comes to real discovery. 

I speak about what works for me.

I'm not saying I am awakened.

Yet I am doing the work that needs doing.

Writing is helpful for both the writer and the reader.

I don't engage with philosophy only the day to day reality.

What I know is, there is nothing to know in this universe.

This is a good first step in rolling back the mind.

[UnbornTao]

@gettoefl Now, what's true? Not what's concluded, wished for, assumed, experienced. What works is a different pursuit. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by UnbornTao

[gettoefl]

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@gettoefl Now, without one's self getting in the way, what's true? Not what's concluded, wished for, or assumed. That's the pursuit. In fact what is found to be valuable and what is are entirely different, so you can't lie your way into an authentic consciousness.

I am the only truth. 

Everything around me is fading and dying.

I do not fade or die and I realize myself as eternal and absolute.

This can be realized by anyone not as religion but as reality.

This is the work and I have tasted that unchanging essence that I am.

[AtmanIsBrahman]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

1) You are correct in that you cannot know ahead of time whether you will ever find truth or whether it even exists. But what you're overlooking is that no such gaurantee is needed. You can explore consciousness without needing any gaurantees from it. That is the way.

2) Why is desire for truth a problem? If you value truth, then pursue it and enjoy the process. Is your desire arbitrary? Even if it is, so what? In a sense, anything you choose to do is arbitrary. And you gotta do something either way. But also, maybe your desire is more than just that. Maybe it has a profound divine source. You don't know yet so don't jump to conclusions.

3) Pursuing bliss is a rather dubious idea. A mature mind isn't motivated by promises of raw pleasure. But there is a more advanced notion of bliss that might be a valid path. If you actually pursue the goal of being unconditionally at peace in all of life's situations, and you go about that seriously, then you will eventually discover that it leads you to Truth. But you must be careful not to confuse this with pleasure-seeking. This would be real bliss.

4) In the end, Truth and Bliss will be identical. But you can climb the same mountain from opposite sides.

Thanks for responding. It seems like doing the spiritual work is the only way to find out

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

Thanks for responding. It seems like doing the spiritual work is the only way to find out

How else could it be?

[M A J I]

@AtmanIsBrahman I've been saying this for years and agree with you, however most people on these forums are still rediscovering the truth.

Sadguru is exactly that, a deception agent. But I guess he is there to play the trickster archetype for people until they awaken beyond his trick.

 

The Truth is not always beautiful, nor beautiful words the Truth - Tao Te Ching

[Javfly33]

12 hours ago, M A J I said:

@AtmanIsBrahman I've been saying this for years and agree with you, however most people on these forums are still rediscovering the truth.

Sadguru is exactly that, a deception agent. But I guess he is there to play the trickster archetype for people until they awaken beyond his trick.

 

  

Edited December 27, 2024 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

On 26/12/2024 at 4:10 AM, AtmanIsBrahman said:

An issue I've been grappling with for a long time is the bliss vs truth dilemma in spirituality. A lot of people who practice spirituality do it to achieve a happier state, whether they frame it as escaping suffering, having peace of mind, or experiencing divine bliss. But spirituality should be truth-seeking, and when truth is your goal it doesn't matter if you feel blissful, sad, energetic, or slightly despondent. You are searching for what is actually the case, asking what is reality really.

When spiritual teachers like Sadhguru say, "Would you rather be blissful or sad? Blissful, yes... isn't it?" and then people inevitably say yes, I can't help but see this as a spiritual deception. To an actual truth seeker, it isn't enough to just pick blissfulness over negativity. Blissfulness, based on our typical drive for experiencing positive emotions, seems better, but does it actually lead to truth? Maybe, maybe not. You can't make that assumption! And I see spiritual people doing this all the time. 

Then there's an even deeper issue, which is what truth seeking really is. It only takes a little consciousness to see that everything we do is motivated by desire for one thing or another that always circles back to the self, sometimes directly and sometimes more indirectly. If you haven't grasped this notion, contemplate it, and you will see that it's true, similar to how everything in the universe can always be traced back to oneness- nonduality 101. So even searching for truth is just a desire that's ultimately arbitrary and only for the purpose of your own fulfilment.

The problem with just going for bliss is that in choosing that path and not knowing whether it leads to truth or not, you're essentially giving into the relativity of your experience and just going with what feels right thinking that everything is relative. And if you are going for bliss, you don't have a guarantee that it will lead to truth- it may be the opposite. So then the spiritual seeker (which is my situation right now) is in a dilemma of wanting to pursue truth but not knowing whether it exists or is just based on desire. 

Hopefully it was clear what I'm trying to get at. This is an existential quagmire about truth, bliss. and relativity. I'd appreciate any insights people have, especially @Leo Gura as a truth-seeker.

 

 

 

Simply observe reality, nature, the cosmos. You are that, it is indisputable.

What is sought in spiritual work is to open yourself to the reality of what you are. It is obvious that our mind is closed for reasons of survival, focused in a certain way. Opening it is an enigma, it is something very difficult, but in it is the source, the reality itself. If you intuit this, there is only one path: to reach the end.

[gettoefl]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Simply observe reality, nature, the cosmos. You are that, it is indisputable.

What is sought in spiritual work is to open yourself to the reality of what you are. It is obvious that our mind is closed for reasons of survival, focused in a certain way. Opening it is an enigma, it is something very difficult, but in it is the source, the reality itself. If you intuit this, there is only one path: to reach the end.

This whole panorama sits on my pupils each and every moment rather than extends out into space and time. All the sights, sounds, tastes, smells, and touches are me creating what the world is. The world isn’t separate from me - it’s a canvas painted by my perception, reflecting the vastness of my mind projected outward. Reality, then, was never “out there” but was always within, an ever-shifting interplay of senses and thoughts.

 

[Javfly33]

[Ishanga]

@Javfly33 Yes, Bliss is not an Emotion, its a permanent State that is only available to those that Realize, it doesn't mean that one does not feel negative emotions like pain, frustration and such, but the underline of their current state is Bliss, which basically means I completely know that everything is alright! 

With that comes as Sadhguru says, a place where "What about Me" is not longer there, when that happens Fear is not possible and Your full stride ahead in Life, so Bliss is the basis of ones Potential and Possibility which each of Us has to explore and examine in depth, it may be realized as differences in one another but whatever You find out as Your Highest Potential is okay for You, it may change over time but its better than staying stuck in the doldrums of up and down emotions and survival accumulating and gathering ppl, places, things and experiences...