Do Enlightened People Still Have The Survival Instinct?

[Guest]

From what I gather, the enlightened are not bothered by death. Would this take away incentive to keep the body alive? Would they have different reaction to life threatening situations since they realize there is no self to preserve?

Also, what about bias? Would they be more compelled to save a close friend or family member's life over that of a stranger's as most unenlightened people would?

[Khin]

Mostly NO! They have some miner ones. Depending on the level of enlightenment. That's why not many things can bother them (not even life or death situations). Most of the time enlightened people naturally happened to know difference between good and bad. I am not praising enlightened people though. Enlightenment is like you get hit by something and your brain just become opened to all the realities, possibilities, right and wrong. Enlightened people always try to be balanced in all situations.

[Guest]

@Khin I thought to the enlightened, right and wrong are just illusions.

@Pinocchio See, that's what I had anticipated, but I still have a suspicion that there are more specific general characteristics of enlightened people that may be able to be identified. I think it would be interesting to see studies on their outward characteristics.   

I can't conceptualize how different I would be if I were enlightened, but one thought is, if I became indifferent to death due to seeing it as an illusion would there not still be incentive to promote the body's survival since the body's survival urge+ the conscious neutrality = bias toward body's survival?

Also, I wonder how enlightened people would have views on arbitrary social issues, such as what kind of society is best to create? What would motivate their behavior and actions?  While enlightenment itself cannot be conceptualized, I wonder if it is possible to have conclusive studies on enlightened individuals.

Edit: I'm not saying we should approach enlightenment from a purely scientific pov. Just that it would be interesting to see.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Saitama

[Dhana Choko]

Enlightened people might even have more survival instincts cause they do not have a loud ego complaining all the time in their head.  (Or they might have but they dont live through it)

[Rufus]

Enlightened people do have thoughts and emotions such like anybody, they are driving a human body's as well, don't forget that :), a human body has needs, emotional needs, sexual needs, survival needs.. etc, such like everybody else. they often develop further sensitivity in emotions and perception and probably more thoughts than normal people, especially curious thoughts regarding life and what's beyond, but the thing is, they don't let the mind and emotion control their bodies. thoughts and emotions come and go, they are visitors, they feel it, they enjoy it, they examine it, if they sense something  unpleasant they take it as a sign that a conscious action is needed, they do not fall into a slave reaction, they do what's needed to be done without the enslavement of body, ego and emotion.
Enlightened beings care about their survival out of Love and compassion towards their egos and their bodies, the same way they love everybody, and the same way they love life and everything around them.
Hope this helps

Edited February 15, 2016 by Rufus

[jjer94]

Quote

See, that's what I had anticipated, but I still have a suspicion that there are more specific general characteristics of enlightened people that may be able to be identified. I think it would be interesting to see studies on their outward characteristics.   

I can't conceptualize how different I would be if I were enlightened, but one thought is, if I became indifferent to death due to seeing it as an illusion would there not still be incentive to promote the body's survival since the body's survival urge+ the conscious neutrality = bias toward body's survival?

Also, I wonder how enlightened people would have views on arbitrary social issues, such as what kind of society is best to create? What would motivate their behavior and actions?  While enlightenment itself cannot be conceptualized, I wonder if it is possible to have conclusive studies on enlightened individuals.

Why does all of this matter? Why do you feel so inclined to make a scientific study of enlightened beings? For certainty? For hope for the future? For knowledge? If you're on the path, you may want to learn to abandon all sense of certainty, hope, and especially knowledge. 

Enlightenment just is. Whatever happens after that is completely up in the air. The body and mind do whatever they feel moved to do.

"Neo, sooner or later you're going to realize just as I did that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."
-Morpheus, The Matrix

[Rito]

I feel Yes they would have different reactions,but they would preserve themselves still most probably.

The reason for preservation would be different than those who are unenlightened.The unenlightened preserve themselves out of a base selfish need and mostly unconsciously .They would preserve themselves as they would want to consciously spread their messages and continue their life purpose.

Also, Enlightened people has a deep  and profound appreciation of  life and the universe so they would still not want o end their life prematurely.

They would respond calmly and consciously and not react with a rush of adrenalin with the usual Flight and Figt response.

[Guest]

@jjer94 You don't understand what I'm saying. I don't want a scientific study of enlightenment for any of those things. Just for fun.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Pinocchio said:

 

 

I think the trap is that tendency to turn it into this sterile scholarly pursuit that has no real impact on your own life and growth. The results of a study will not benefit you in any way. But contemplating these kinds of things for yourself can certainly help you in developing your perspective on them, as long as it has some relevance to your own path.

 

 

Is that not different from any scholarly pursuit? I am not suggesting these things as means of attaining enlightenment. In fact, I'm not even suggesting they would help. I only think it would be interesting to see.

[Khin]

14 hours ago, Saitama said:

@Khin I thought to the enlightened, right and wrong are just illusions.

Of course right and wrong, up and down are just illusions. Existences are just illusions. There is nothing real. The reality is nothingness. Enlightened people know that. They don't care about their body. They are selfless (depending on the level of enlightenment). So why don't they just kill themselves right? But they don't put away the fact that not every knows like them. I mean when you realized the truth, you won't put away all the truths. You will accept all the truth and try to be balanced in all the truth. That's what Buddha meant by middle path. If they act according to whatever way they think, wouldn't that be being selfish?

 

 

 

[Guest]

@Khin I don't understand. I have never studied spirituality or Buddhism, and only heard about spiritual enlightenment three days ago. What's this business about putting away all truths and the middle path? 

[MaxBlank]

I would like to suggest the below material for information on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Dragons-Eden-Speculations-Intelligence/dp/0345346297

It is the Dragons of Eden by Carl Sagan. His discussions about the brain will point out the survival instinct comes from the most primal part of a brain.

Now, about Samurai and Bushido:

If Samurai were enlightened about anything, it was certainly the knowledge that they had mastery over this instinct. 

My short answer is the instinct is a primal physical state. This is often overridden in many circumstances as a result of having a more complex brain. It is simply a decision process from our intellectual faculties. Samurai chose death over what they viewed as dishonorable. On the other hand, there was value in life. Their values were demonstrated through their warrior lifestyles. They fought for survival (manifest through their warrior code).

 

[WelcometoReality]

On 2/15/2016 at 4:22 AM, Saitama said:

From what I gather, the enlightened are not bothered by death. Would this take away incentive to keep the body alive? Would they have different reaction to life threatening situations since they realize there is no self to preserve?

The survival mechanism are still there, They still move there hand from a burning stove etc. In life threatening situations the ego might panic and do nothing. An enlightened person might still feel fear, but not make up a story about it, and act in the moment to whatever is arising.

On 2/15/2016 at 4:22 AM, Saitama said:

Also, what about bias? Would they be more compelled to save a close friend or family member's life over that of a stranger's as most unenlightened people would?

It is easier to see others perspective and the absolute without the ego. They are not unbiased.

[30secs]

I remember the video about the Marathon Monks on Mt. Hiei, I think most enlightened people has high survival instinct because of the process and hard training they had. They can meditate in 24 hours ,7 days without sleep, food, and water. They are also very calm and can control their emotions, they can survived  in the jungle. wow

[ayokolomo]

I remember a story from Sadhguru.

One of the first yogis to US  was a very simple, uneducated and fat man who had an intense desire to eat.  Even during long talks he would turn to his wife and ask"what is cooking?"  Though he was a highly enlightend master he had this intense desire to eat.  

As far as I understand over 90%of humans who reach enlightenment, at that moment leave the body.  It is only through intense desire and training that the illusion can continue. 

The yogi had no formal training so created a burning desire for food to keep inside his body.

So from my perspective, the enlightend beings who are alive have made a truly conscious decision to stay alive.

[Khin]

 

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 3:16 PM, Saitama said:

@Khin I don't understand. I have never studied spirituality or Buddhism, and only heard about spiritual enlightenment three days ago. What's this business about putting away all truths and the middle path? 

By truth, I meant all realities. There are enlightened people and normal people. Bodies, thoughts, feelings and senses are still there in present moment. But for enlightened people, they know them with awareness (therefore no consequences because every after one thought or sense, awareness cut the further thought generations) but others not.

By middle path, I meant one doesn't have go wild (ex: suicide) because body, mind, & senses are illusion. Also one doesn't have to be too sensitive about what one knows. Hard to explain because if I put the wrong word, you'll be misunderstood.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Khin
fixing sentence