Why Trip 200+ Times?

[bmcnicho]

I’ve done about 30 trips over the past few years, and I’m thinking about taking a break for awhile.  I feel like I have a solid general grasp of the major metaphysical concepts that Leo has spoken of publicly, and my personal life is going well right now.  So I’m wondering what the benefit of additional trips would be? Of course it’s always possible to go deeper, because Reality is infinitely complex, but at least from the trip reports I’ve read, it seems like at a certain point it becomes the same insights but at higher intensity levels.

I’ve seen the idea of “tripping 200+ times” thrown around a lot on the forum, and Leo has repeatedly encouraged people to not get complacent, but I don’t know what the intended purpose of this is.

For example, I’ve already experienced insanity while tripping.  What additional benefit comes from experiencing more insanity?  And I’ve had multiple glimpses that Reality is Infinite.  Of course it’s intrinsic to Infinity that Infinity always becomes more Infinite, but what added benefit is there to experiencing that over and over again?

In several trips, I’ve reached the point where all possible concepts and finite ways of understanding break down completely.  So what benefit is there to going more radical, more intense, and more twisted over and over again when you won’t really be able to understand it anyway?  And even if you sort of can in the moment, it’s something that can’t fully be brought back with you.

Some of the stranger reports I’ve read are so far removed from human reality, that we’re no longer dealing in anything that could have practical applications.  Which I can respect strangeness for the sake of experiencing strangeness, a few of my recent trips entered that territory.  There are things that can’t be spoken of or remembered, and I know my experiences have been mild compared to what’s possible, even though they contained elements that were inconceivably strange and reality breaking.

But at a certain point, aren’t you just repeatedly destabilizing yourself for no reason, even if the insights are profound?  I can respect the argument that it’s all for the sake of Truth, but at a certain point, even the distinction between truth and falsehood breaks down as well, so where does one go from there?

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

it seems like at a certain point it becomes the same insights but at higher intensity levels.

There's more insights to be had.

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So far removed from human reality, that we’re no longer dealing in anything that could have practical applications.

That's definitely an issue. If you're after practicality then it does max out.

In general tripping is not too practical.

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But at a certain point, aren’t you just repeatedly destabilizing yourself for no reason, even if the insights are profound?

Yes, destabilization happens.

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I can respect the argument that it’s all for the sake of Truth, but at a certain point, even the distinction between truth and falsehood breaks down as well, so where does one go from there?

You can still understand more and deeper things. Whether that's worth the time and risk is of course a matter of personal taste.

There are things I understood after 200 trips which I would have never understood if I stopped at 30 trips. Stopping at 30 trips to me feels like stopping math after 4th grade. 4th grade math is good enough for most people. But then there's those of us who appreciate college level math.

Edited December 25, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Flowerfaeiry]

For me, my usage of psychedelics has ultimately come down to a desire to heal.
 

And I know everyone will be different in this and we all have to walk our own path so you may just be done with psychedelics for now. That could change though.

 

Before I experienced ayahuasca I sort of felt like you do like: “okay I get it, I’ve seen god” etc.  but I was really blessed to be able to have some deep deep spiritual and emotional healing with that medicine and it really brought a whole new meaning to the other psychedelics I’d done and the spiritual “work” I’d been doing for a long time and I feel like I will be on that path for the rest of my life. 
 

So I mean maybe you just don’t have a strong desire to keep seeking in that area of life and that’s ok. You got what you wanted out of it and are ready to grow from all you’ve learned. You can always come back when you’re more ready. 

[bmcnicho]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are things I understood after 200 trips which I would have never understood if I stopped at 30 trips. Stopping at 30 trips to me feels like stopping math after 4th grade. 4th grade math is good enough for most people. But then there's those of us who appreciate college level math.

@Leo Gura I like that analogy.  Some of my recent trips have felt like if I was at a 4th grade level and then was shown page 357 of some random college textbook.  Like I might incidentally be able to derive some meaning from it, but mostly it’s completely outside of what I have context for.

But mysteries are endless, so if there’s more to be found, then I’ll likely be coming back to it before too long.

[Buck Edwards]

@bmcnicho do you use Hawaiian wood rose sometimes? 

[bmcnicho]

@Buck Edwards Yes, Hawaiian baby woodrose is incredibly powerful and underrated, and I owe a significant portion of my foundation to it.  It’s been over a year since I last took it, because for me it’s mostly conceptual, and I decided to shift to primarily ayahuasca to experience more visionary elements.

[RightHand]

Low dose range is amazing for "practical" stuff.

[OBEler]

@bmcnicho be ready for upcoming mindfucks, you need a special taste for this. But I trust Leo that it will be worth.

Here some small taste for this day:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCzMivjqxs9/?igsh=MXB3OGwzdmNocmduag==

Edited December 25, 2024 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, OBEler said:

But I trust Leo that it will be worth.

I can't promise you it's worth it for you. That all depends on your goals, values, and personality. And there are risks. The more you trip the more chances for things to go wrong.

All I'm claiming is that you will realize stuff at 200 trips which you could not have realized at 30. Things get more weird and profound. Whether that's good for you I cannot say.

Edited December 25, 2024 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura yes, this is a bitter pill to swallow. You can never know. You motivated a lot of people before your health risks in pushing people to the limit but you made a turn back.

It's probably like climbing a mountain as a beginner. You don't know if it's worth even if you stand at the top of the mountain. You could have lost all your friends during your journey and now you are standing completely alone there. Will you still enjoy the beauty? Even if you cannot make it back because your feets are frozen..

 

 

Edited December 25, 2024 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, OBEler said:

You motivated a lot of people before your health risks in pushing people to the limit but you made a turn back.

I went so deep that I realized it's too serious for most people to handle. Going as deep as I did would be harmful to most. This stuff ain't all fun and adventure.

Edited December 25, 2024 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura I follow you since beginning. I noticed after an incredible hype wave after you discovered alien mind where I felt you were a bit off/ destabilized (yeah you wanted to break out of your spiritual role people put on you , also probably fighting nice guy syndrome etc but there was probably more going on).Then you suddenly were silent. No big advertisement on psychedelics anymore, no spiritual talking. So there must happen a single event based on  combination of multiple other events which changed you. And you got Tinnitus and burn out after that. But this was not coming from spiritual insights but real life problems hit you probably too hard at that time which settled you down from your hype wave. This was not coming from psychedelics alone.

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler Something like that.

[RightHand]

It feels like artistic minds have an easier time with psychedelics.

[Davino]

I don't trip like I bench press. It's a joy and a lifestyle. I have no goal but to enjoy the journey.

In my mind, if you're thinking about hitting a certain number it's the wrong approach. Do it because you love it. Although it's clear that there are important Awakenings that only happen as you get more trips under your belt. It's called tripping for a reason, the more you trip the further you travel.

[LoseYourvelf]

Tripping is the best part of life you should be looking to get more than 100 in

 

edit, it takes it out of ya tho, jsin, have breaks

Edited December 26, 2024 by LoseYourvelf

[LoseYourvelf]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I went so deep that I realized it's too serious for most people to handle. Going as deep as I did would be harmful to most. This stuff ain't all fun and adventure.

I think you're underrating your ability to handle high doses mate, the integration is just as important as the trip. Yes those doses would break many, like dialling emergency numbers, destroying things physically, trying to hurt themselves or others. After all the trip is just what you put in *your* body. 25 ug is gonna put some humans into psychosis that lasts days/weeks. 

 

If you've hit a point where it got troublesome, real and scary and direct it's just the summit of what these substances can do to someone, it isn't to do with dosage or frequency

 

Objective supporter of psychedelic use here for the foreseeable future and had the knife of hell/evil/fear right up to my throat from them (metaphorically, i never put a knife to my throat on psychs, they scared me enough where i thought i had irrevocably put myself into hell)

 

Objective none believer in internal/external religion or spirituality. That's just calling 1s and 0s a detailed mosaic 

Just make sure you do it right the first time, cos nothing is worse than a suicide chump :((((((((

Edited December 26, 2024 by LoseYourvelf

[Alex_R]

You can stop tripping but dont do it as a full stop, i mean, if you really feel like tripping againg just grab some lsd and do it, do not set hard rules for spirituallity

[RightHand]

1 hour ago, LoseYourvelf said:

Just make sure you do it right the first time, cos nothing is worse than a suicide chump :((((((((

Yeah, the first trip can destroy your life if you have no context for what is happening to you.

[M A J I]

It never ends my friend, its about you finally getting the greater lesson and letting them go for good, or it never ends, then you become dependent on them to know, feel and be yourself. Eventually you need to let them go, or at least take long breaks to truly Integrate the experiences.

Some people trip thousands of times and understand nothing, others a few and that's all they need. Most people haven't accessed the truth within so they struggle to integrate such powerful realizations and experiences, hence there are no shortcuts to enlightenment.

Other times its the environment and the lifestyle we live in that can make it more or less challenging to integrate the realizations.

If you never developed deep roots and grown into a big strong tree, when the storms come, you will be blown away.