Gaza Death Toll debunked

[Leo Gura]

@Anton Rogachevski So then you agree that Israel is commiting a genocide? Since the Native Americans were genocided.

Let's hear you say it. Since you are so fond of this analogy.

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Leo Gura disagree. There's no other army that did more than us to secure civilian lives. It's a very tragic outcome but Hamas could have given up and handed us the hostages and there would have been 0 civilian casualties.

[Leo Gura]

@Anton Rogachevski And thus your nonsense has been exposed.

Edited Tuesday at 07:35 PM by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Anton Rogachevski And thus your nonsense has been exposed.

Actually there is a duality in the way IDF treat civilians.

In some aspects soldiers are too loose in making damage or shooting people (last war in Gaza and many cases in West Bank).

But in some other aspects IDF is more careful than perhaps any other military in the world in its civilians warning strategies especially in previous operations in Gaza before the brakes lost in oct7.

But even during the last war the killed ratio are objectively far better (1.5:1-2:1 vs 7:1) than Europe and US coalition against ISIS or Iraq and Afganistan war. Of course nothing is "good" or justified but the contrast is still important.

This duality can be very confusing and reflect the complexity and diversity inside IDF and in a deeper sense the complexity of Israeli society.

Elor Azaria case in 2016 is a hot litmus test to this polarity.

Edited yesterday at 06:40 AM by Nivsch

[Raze]

52 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

But in some other aspects IDF is more careful than perhaps any other military in the world in its civilians warning strategies especially in previous operations in Gaza before the brakes lost in oct7.

What about this?

https://gaza-patterns-harm.airwars.org/

[gambler]

7 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@Leo Gura And we are peaceful, but it takes two to tango. They don't play ball and hadn't from day one.

This is so incredibly dishonest. Building a democratic country that is for you means that Palestinians cannot be the majority or else the country no longer becomes yours when they elect a Palestinian leader in perpetuity indefinitely. It obviously meant expulsion of the Arabs and the Arabs knew this on a conscious level. But I guess they should’ve just played ball against their injustice. You are not serious. 

Edited yesterday at 01:54 AM by gambler

[Karmadhi]

6 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@Leo Gura disagree. There's no other army that did more than us to secure civilian lives. It's a very tragic outcome but Hamas could have given up and handed us the hostages and there would have been 0 civilian casualties.

Are you Israeli? You seem to have a slavic last name. I wonder what are people with slavic last names doing in a land where people are Arab.

Or am I missing something?

[Anton Rogachevski]

1 hour ago, gambler said:

This is so incredibly dishonest. Building a democratic country that is for you means that Palestinians cannot be the majority or else the country no longer becomes yours when they elect a Palestinian leader in perpetuity indefinitely. It obviously meant expulsion of the Arabs and the Arabs knew this on a conscious level. But I guess they should’ve just played ball against their injustice. You are not serious. 

We should have two states, and I'm very hopeful the Palestinian Authority will one day be the Palestinian government that can thrive side by side with us, it'a already almost the case, only takes a declaration.

The idea was a Jewish state that would be a safe haven for Jewish people, who were homeless for 2000 years and were persecuted for just being jewish.

From day one the natives didn't welcome us and didn't respect our identity. What would you do if you were the jewish people before the founding of the state? Would you keep being homeless? Wandering, hoping people won't harm you and won't hate you?

Edited yesterday at 03:46 AM by Anton Rogachevski

[Anton Rogachevski]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Are you Israeli? You seem to have a slavic last name. I wonder what are people with slavic last names doing in a land where people are Arab.

Or am I missing something?

Your racist mind can't fathom that jewish people can be from many ethnicities. My grandfather was a jew from Poland that fought in the second world war against the Nazis.

[Anton Rogachevski]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Anton Rogachevski And thus your nonsense has been exposed.

This is gaslighting, saying that all my thoughts are nonsensical. Please elaborate on where you think I'm wrong.

Stop looking for the devil outside, you are the devil! Face it, stop trying to justify yourself by not minding your own business.

Edited yesterday at 03:57 AM by Anton Rogachevski

[Karmadhi]

24 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

Your racist mind can't fathom that jewish people can be from many ethnicities. My grandfather was a jew from Poland that fought in the second world war against the Nazis.

Fighting against one evil does not give Jews the right to inflict it on innocent others.

If you want a state make it in Germany, not on innocent Palestinians who had nothing to do with the Holocaust and treated you as good as any group ever has.

[Anton Rogachevski]

2 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Fighting against one evil does not give Jews the right to inflict it on innocent others.

If you want a state make it in Germany, not on innocent Palestinians who had nothing to do with the Holocaust and treated you as good as any group ever has.

Yes a very "good" treatment - shooting rockets, exploding buses, kidnaping babies and decapitating people. (Did I miss anything?) Also the "good" way in which they treat women and gay people. Do you know that they murder women freely for "respect" of the family.

[gambler]

32 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

We should have two states, and I'm very hopeful the Palestinian Authority will one day be the Palestinian government that can thrive side by side with us, it'a already almost the case, only takes a declaration.

The idea was a Jewish state that would be a safe haven for Jewish people, who were homeless for 2000 years and were persecuted for just being jewish.

From day one the natives didn't welcome us and didn't respect our identity. What would you do if you were the jewish people before the founding of the state? Would you keep being homeless? Wandering, hoping people won't harm you and won't hate you?

Obviously they don’t care for your identity and didn’t welcome you when again, in order to create a Jewish state you have to expel them, otherwise they as the majority would just elect a Palestinian leader in perpetuity indefinitely and that would defeat the idea of a Jewish state. Why should they care about welcoming you when it means their expulsion. 

[Karmadhi]

14 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

Yes a very "good" treatment - shooting rockets, exploding buses, kidnaping babies and decapitating people. (Did I miss anything?) Also the "good" way in which they treat women and gay people. Do you know that they murder women freely for "respect" of the family.

I meant how they treated Jews historically for centuries before they decided to take most of their land cleanse the rest with 0 disregard.

I got no issue with Israel being created as long as some care and thought was put on the people that had lived there for millennia.

There was none

You expect them to magically love you after you oppress, take their land then occupy them for decades?

They hate your guts.

No shit.

Edited yesterday at 04:29 AM by Karmadhi

[gambler]

23 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

Yes a very "good" treatment - shooting rockets, exploding buses, kidnaping babies and decapitating people. (Did I miss anything?) Also the "good" way in which they treat women and gay people. Do you know that they murder women freely for "respect" of the family.

Israelis raped Palestinian women during the expulsions in 1948, one good case of this is the rape of a teenage girl during the Tantura massacre. Elsewhere there was also more rounding up of Palestinian civilians and shooting them execution style while they were lined up face towards the wall and hands on the wall. There are IDF records that serve as evidence that Ben Gurion made an attempt to cover up all the atrocities that the IDF were committing. Israel also tried to do a terrorist false flag in Egypt in the 50s, targeting civilians in theaters, etc., planting bombs to kill them in order to blame it on Islamists and get America to reconsider its foreign policy at the time. In 2005, the plotters were awarded certificates of appreciation by the Israeli government. Is this a good treatment of Israel to you? 

Edited yesterday at 04:38 AM by gambler

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

Please elaborate on where you think I'm wrong.

Why is that I don't have a problem admitting that Americans committed genocide but you cannot admit that of your country?

The denial and intellectual dishonesty of Zionism is stunning.

Edited yesterday at 04:54 AM by Leo Gura

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Leo Gura History is a science. After this is over there should be an investigation to decide that. I'm not informed enough to make any intelligible statements.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@Leo Gura History is a science.

That's highly suspect. It's way too easy to spin history to suit one's ideological needs.

Quote

After this is over there should be an investigation to decide that. I'm not informed enough to make any intelligible statements.

Over? It's been 70 years of this stuff. People are being killed and losing their land. This isn't history as much as present reality and the next 50 years of future are in our hands.

Edited yesterday at 04:58 AM by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

I wonder what are people with slavic last names doing in a land where people are Arab.

Or am I missing something?

Jews came here from many countries and in many different times. 188K Christians and 1.7M Muslims live here freely aside the Jews in almost every Israeli city.

Edited yesterday at 06:59 AM by Nivsch

[Raze]

14 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

We should have two states, and I'm very hopeful the Palestinian Authority will one day be the Palestinian government that can thrive side by side with us, it'a already almost the case, only takes a declaration.

Didn’t you say you live in a illegal settlement on stolen Palestinian land? This is designed to block a two state solution.

Edited 19 hours ago by Raze