Nihilist needs help!

[rachMiel]

By nihilism I mean the view that there are no absolutes: meaning, purpose, good, evil, right, wrong. All of these exist relatively in consensus reality, but none exist absolutely and inherently. We're all making it up as we go along: storytelling, best guessing, speculating. This goes for everyone, from Buddha to Trump. There are people who are 'closer to the truth' perhaps, but like an asymptote, no view ever reaches the absolute.  

It took me many years to arrive here, I never intended or wanted to find nihilism, it just sort of emerged from my self-work. 

The good thing about nihilism is it can be deeply freeing, all rules/codes/morality is seen as fallible, especially the rules that are presented as inviolable! 

The bad thing is the freedom can feel like free-fall: no up, no down, no control, no security. Just falling freely with no safety net. For people who rely emotionally on the feeling of security and meaning that belief in absolute authority brings, not having this can be nightmarish. This is the predicament I find myself in, I am deeply convinced about the (relative) truth of my nihilist view, I can't un-see it, but I don't feel capable of bearing its consequences emotionally. I can't handle the truth! 

Thanks for listening. Feel free to share your take. :-) 

[Hojo]

Have you tried to bear the consequences emotionally? Emotions are a release not a burden when you feel them that is you releasing something. Its already there before you feel it and when you feel it you have an option to release it or hold it.

Edited yesterday at 08:13 AM by Hojo

[LastThursday]

@rachMiel there's danger of circularity in what you believe.

2 hours ago, rachMiel said:

We're all making it up as we go along: storytelling

2 hours ago, rachMiel said:

I am deeply convinced about the (relative) truth of my nihilist view

You know you're telling yourself a story, but seemingly you can't escape it? OR:

2 hours ago, rachMiel said:

I can't handle the truth!

You want to believe (the story of nihilism), but you can't bring yourself to do it?

[rachMiel]

6 hours ago, Hojo said:

Have you tried to bear the consequences emotionally? 

I work with the emotions at times, let them flower, rise and fade, without resisting them. But I have to tread lightly, my emotions are a bit out of whack these days. 

[rachMiel]

@LastThursday Right there is definitely circularity in the assertion “There are no absolutes.“ But I’m not asserting this as an absolute truth, I am saying it’s what I strongly believe. It is my story of the true nature of reality. I don’t want to escape it, I want the truth. I just wish I could find a way to be more comfortable and at peace with it. In the movie Groundhog Day, Bill Murray falls into the dark side of nihilism at some point in his endless succession of the same day. But he gets past it. I feel it’s time for me to get past the dark side, it’s lost its charm. 

[Ajay0]

As per eastern philosophy, nihilism is a short-sighted philosophical perspective.

Nihilism considers all virtues and values to be mere abstract contrivances, while eastern religious philosophies of Buddhism and Hinduism states that virtuous or value-based conduct  results in progressively higher states of consciousness and enlightenment or Buddhahood eventually. Buddha and Anandamayi Ma had creditted virtuous conduct with potential attainment of enlightenment.

You might find these thoughts insightful and useful to develop a better perspective

Quote

 

An ethical life purifies the mind. By living an ethical life, one progresses towards the realization of the Divine. ~ Sri Anandamayi Ma

Behavior influences consciousness. Right behavior means right consciousness. ~ Taisen Deshimaru

 

If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the (turbulent) mind. ~ Rajini Menon

 

When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no eed to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ~ Swami Satchidananda

 

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

 

 

Rajini Menon is a modern enlightened sage who attained enlightenment solely by adherence to virtuous conduct and following her conscience at all times. 

Here is a thread I had created on her in this regard...

 

Edited yesterday at 04:05 PM by Ajay0

[LastThursday]

@rachMiel I can't help but think that it's a hopeless endeavour (for me personally). Is a story ever truth? A particular truth is absolute because if it ever changes then it wasn't truth (or it was finite relative truth only). So you seek absolute truth, but use a relative tool to do it: storytelling. And if you don't seek absolute truth, then any relative truth will do and you can collect them like butterflies. If you allow in absolutes then Nihilism sort of becomes redundant.

Groundhog day is an excellent film BTW. In the film the situation doesn't change, but just Bill Murray's (emotional/rational) reaction to it. He gets to escape the loop, but I don't think we have that option IRL, the absurdity continues, changing our reaction to it only makes it more bearable.

[gettoefl]

There is nothing worthwhile or important or learnable outside myself

Having grasped this, I can mine the true treasure

Me

Edited 19 hours ago by gettoefl

[rachMiel]

@Ajay0 Thanks for the response. What is the relationship between virtue and love? Is love the antidote for nihilist despair? 

[rachMiel]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

There is nothing worthwhile or important or learnable outside myself

Having grasped this, I can mine the true treasure

Me

And the deeper you mine, the vaster the 'field' revealed. Seen from this pov, all my prapanca about nihilism is 'much ado about nothing.' 

[rachMiel]

4 hours ago, LastThursday said:

@rachMiel So you seek absolute truth, but use a relative tool to do it: storytelling.   

I bemoan the apparent absence of absolute truth. I miss believing in absolutes, feel unmoored and unprotected. I use stories, non-story is too barren for me like staring into the abyss. 

4 hours ago, LastThursday said:

@rachMielIf you allow in absolutes then Nihilism sort of becomes redundant.

Given my definition of nihilism is absence of absolutes! No absolutes makes sense to me on all kinds of levels, it feels true, but I can't know for sure. 

4 hours ago, LastThursday said:

@rachMiel He gets to escape the loop, but I don't think we have that option IRL, the absurdity continues, changing our reaction to it only makes it more bearable.

Is there any way out? Is the person who knows the abyss forever stuck with this knowing? 

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, rachMiel said:

And the deeper you mine, the vaster the 'field' revealed. Seen from this pov, all my prapanca about nihilism is 'much ado about nothing.' 

Yes. Nothing good comes from without. Nothing bad comes from within.

[LastThursday]

I suppose an absolute is a truth that is unchanging and eternal, everything else is finite and relative. An absolute isn't relative because nothing can affect it. So to know an absolute, you must know with certainty that it is unchanging and eternal. But how can you know something is eternal without experiencing its entirety? How can you know an absolute never changes, again, without waiting for it to change? If you do anything else it's blind faith. No, we only ever experience relativity.

[rachMiel]

2 hours ago, LastThursday said:

 we only ever experience relativity.   

How is this related to the existential despair of nihilism? 

[Nilsi]

Quote

“The weak and the botched shall perish: first principle of our love of humanity. And they shall even be given every possible assistance. But the weak and the botched - it was they who invented the words ‘sin’ and ‘forgiveness,’ and ‘suffering’ and ‘self-denial.’ The herd seeks comfort in such words; they need a god to console them. But the Übermensch says: ‘I am my own meaning, I am my own god.’”- Friedrich Nietzsche

Affirming your own meaning is no task for the faint of heart.

[LastThursday]

@rachMiel by your own definition, Nihilism is complete relativity. The despair comes out of naively believing in absolutes and then through some process having to reject all absolutes, it's a form of grief. Then comes the realisation: how does anything get built, if there is no base to start from? Or the flipside: there's all this stuff, but it's completely arbitrary and absurd. It's like treading water in the ocean, you're only held up as long as you keep kicking - and whether you stop or not, it's despair both ways.

[rachMiel]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

Affirming your own meaning is no task for the faint of heart.

I would say living is no task for the faint of heart. 

[rachMiel]

46 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

@rachMiel The despair comes out of naively believing in absolutes and then through some process having to reject all absolutes, it's a form of grief. 

Bingo. 

46 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

@rachMiel It's like treading water in the ocean, you're only held up as long as you keep kicking - and whether you stop or not, it's despair both ways.

This is quite the image. Desperately kicking to stay afloat (for what?) vs. giving up and drowning, neither are happy paths. Is there a middle way? 

[LastThursday]

It's unfortunate, but I have no answer. 

My instinct is to go meta, but I wouldn't know what that was exactly. Maybe start by asking: "Am I truly a nihilist or do I just like scaring myself?". Maybe look for an absolute that you can rely on: the experience of existing or consciousness itself - but that doesn't give much to hold on to. And life isn't as bleak as floating in the ocean, there is actually a lot of stuff to get lost in and distracted with (i.e. kicking is more fun than drowning). 

Edited 20 minutes ago by LastThursday