The painful reality of beautiful women 😔

[Sugarcoat]

18 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

If "the number one thing valued in women is physical beauty",

What is the number one thing valued in men?

I have asked myself the same question. I think for men it’s a bit more broad, and several things are up at the top of values for a guy. I’d say masculinity, but then the question is what is masculinity. It’s also pretty broad so doesn’t answer the question. Some things I could come up with is charisma, leadership maybe, ugh it’s hard. I don’t know. Maybe because I’m a woman. 

[Sugarcoat]

14 hours ago, Raze said:

I’m tired of this trend of videos about how “hard it is” to be a beautiful woman.

The comments are full of women complaining and it’s clear they are just trying to brag about being attractive.

Its nonsense because anyone can make themselves less beautiful if it was that difficult.

The thing is women want to be beautiful but don’t want the negative consequences of being beautiful such as increased risk of harassment, potentially not being taken as seriously, men wanting her only for her looks. So it might sound counterintuitive why she wouldn’t want to make herself less beautiful to suffer from it less. But she values beauty so much that she wouldn’t give it up despite the potential negative sides that’s why, partly because she has been ingrained from society to value it, and perhaps partly from biology. But I wrote before how being beautiful for a woman is like an end in itself, she wants it but can’t necessarily answer why. It gives a pleasurable boost in identity, it’s a symbol of status and even power in a way, is the top thing that matters for her sex appeal etc

Edited December 18 by Sugarcoat

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, gambler said:

All of humanity’s primary function is to survive and reproduce, but a man historically shouldered more of the burden of survival, whereas the woman took on more of the reproductive burden. 

That's not actually true though. 

While women have always taken on most of the child rearing tasks, the primary survival driver for humanity is community. And community is every human being's primary evolutionary value.

The only reason why our species has survived and dominated the way it has (despite humans being a physically weak species) is because of our ability to organize as a community.

And men and women have both always been equal contributors to community, which drives survival.

The only reason why we think about men as the primary drivers of survival is because of the false ways that we modern people have learned to conceptualize of survival and how ancient peoples survived.

We imagine a scenario where the division of labor was stark and cave women were only taking care of kids and cave men were only out hunting. But the only time in human history that mirrors this stark of a division of labor was in the 1950s in upper middle class families.

Women and men (and even children) have always had roles to play in the survival of the species. And to say that men have shouldered more of the burden of the survival needs is false and undercuts all the survival-related tasks that women have done throughout history.... often with a baby wrapped onto her chest with a large cloth.

First off, evidence shows that women in many regions in the past also hunted and that it wasn't solely a male task. But women have taken on the tasks of preparing food, making clothing, foraging, caring for the sick, etc. 

It's why there's a saying, "A man may work from sun to sun, but a woman's work is never done."

[Emerald]

12 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

The thing is women want to be beautiful but don’t want the negative consequences of being beautiful such as increased risk of harassment, potentially not being taken as seriously, men wanting her only for her looks. So it might sound counterintuitive why she wouldn’t want to make herself less beautiful to suffer from it less. But she values beauty so much that she wouldn’t give it up despite the potential negative sides that’s why, partly because she has been ingrained from society to value it, and perhaps partly from biology. But I wrote before how being beautiful for a woman is like an end in itself, she wants it but can’t necessarily answer why. It gives a pleasurable boost in identity, it’s a symbol of status and even power in a way, is the top thing that matters for her sex appeal etc

Ten years ago, when I was in my mid-20s and about 50 lbs lighter than I am now... I was proximal to the beauty standard. And it really sucked. Everyone wants to use you and make you into their bitch. 

Like, imagine what it's like to be a pretty man in prison. That's what it felt like to me. It's like being the goose that lays the golden eggs.

But there is this identity thing, where I want the power and positive self-image associated with being beautiful. Like, if I lost weight, I would really like what I see in the mirror, and I'd feel a lot more empowered that I currently do.

But I don't want the kind of spam attention that I was getting in my 20s as it's very disempowering... even if the scope of the attention wouldn't be as threatening as it was back then.

So, there's this thing where beauty equals power and an empowered self-identity. But having beauty puts you in a space where everyone wants to own you and take away your power and no one sees your identity because of projection. So, it's a catch 22.

In one of my medicine journeys, there was this communication from God about my appearance that it had given me an ordinary appearance as a gift in recent years because deep down, I did not want to have others see me as beautiful.

But it sucks, because my true nature doesn't really come through. I'm on the defensive because I feel unsafe to let my light shine and to really step into my power. It's a whole bunch of white knuckled "stay the fuck away from me" energy from about 15 years of unwanted attention in my teens and 20s. 

[Sugarcoat]

12 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Ten years ago, when I was in my mid-20s and about 50 lbs lighter than I am now... I was proximal to the beauty standard. And it really sucked. Everyone wants to use you and make you into their bitch. 

Like, imagine what it's like to be a pretty man in prison. That's what it felt like to me. It's like being the goose that lays the golden eggs.

But there is this identity thing, where I want the power and positive self-image associated with being beautiful. Like, if I lost weight, I would really like what I see in the mirror, and I'd feel a lot more empowered that I currently do.

But I don't want the kind of spam attention that I was getting in my 20s as it's very disempowering... even if the scope of the attention wouldn't be as threatening as it was back then.

So, there's this thing where beauty equals power and an empowered self-identity. But having beauty puts you in a space where everyone wants to own you and take away your power and no one sees your identity because of projection. So, it's a catch 22.

It’s a weird situation because beauty is something that is put on a pedestal so one would think it only comes with benefits both from inside oneself and from others but it is something that can make people treat you in a dehumanizing way. I can imagine that sucks. So there can be that dilemma of a woman wanting to be beautiful because of that boost in identity and empowerment you mentioned, but at the same time suffering the treatment of others because of it and unwanted attention that is not always positive. 
 

12 minutes ago, Emerald said:

In one of my medicine journeys, there was this communication from God about my appearance that it had given me an ordinary appearance as a gift in recent years because deep down, I did not want to have others see me as beautiful.

But it sucks, because my true nature doesn't really come through. I'm on the defensive because I feel unsafe to let my light shine and to really step into my power. It's a whole bunch of white knuckled "stay the fuck away from me" energy from about 15 years of unwanted attention in my teens and 20s. 

I can imagine it leaves traces all that previous treatment from people. Hopefully you’re able to work through that eventually. I think your “light shines” in this forum at least.

It seems the older a woman gets the less beauty is central to her value from societies pov and she herself might become less concerned about it too. Because youth is associated with beauty so older women are more invisible to society. This can both be positive and negative for a woman. Positive because other qualities of her can shine more and she won’t get those negative consequences that comes with being a pretty young woman but negative because who wants to feel devalued and invisible

Edited December 18 by Sugarcoat

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

It’s a weird situation because beauty is something that is put on a pedestal so one would think it only comes with benefits both from inside oneself and from others but it is something that can make people treat you in a dehumanizing way. I can imagine that sucks. So there can be that dilemma of a woman wanting to be beautiful because of that boost in identity and empowerment you mentioned, but at the same time suffering the treatment of others because of it and unwanted attention that is not always positive. 

I can imagine it leaves traces all that previous treatment from people. Hopefully you’re able to work through that eventually. I think your “light shines” in this forum at least.

It seems the older a woman gets the less beauty is central to her value from societies pov and she herself might become less concerned about it too. Because youth is associated with beauty so older women are more invisible to society. This can both be positive and negative for a woman.

I like being a bit more invisible in certain situations. I really don't like attention from strangers.

And when you're pretty in the eyes of society, you can't go into a 711 without 10 random people trying to hand you their dicks and their hearts.

And what's worse is the projection. So many men start seeing you as the arbiter of their worth as a human being. And if they put you in a position where you have to reject them and they're already shadow boxing with themselves over talking to you, it's really uncomfortable.

But thank you. I appreciate you saying that my light shines on this forum.

But I'm only really sharing the parts of my light that I feel safe showing. It's only the Masculine parts of myself that I really feel safe and comfortable having them seen as they increase my power and my level of respectability without drawbacks. Luckily, I do have a strong and well-developed Masculine side.

But in my medicine journeys, in several journeys, I have seen what my nature is underneath the way I typically express.

And the image that it's presented itself as in a couple of my journeys is a slightly androgynous by mostly highly feminine, slightly alien-looking light being with long hair and soft Feminine features with currents of sacred geometry adorning it like delicate jewelry woven into the skin.

And the main strengths are very Feminine... like wisdom, softness, inherent self-worth, grace, ease, effortless internal authority, etc.

Then, in one mushroom trip that I took, the mushrooms made me sit with this terror that sits in my throat that I'd spent my whole life running away from. In my throat was all the suffering in the world. And I had to sit in abject terror for about an hour.

And then, I "fell through the bottom" of the terror and connected to a deeper part of myself. And the expression was soft, effortlessly authoritative, receptive, and highly perceptive of subtle energies. I was with a friend, and I could notice how he was unconsciously contorting his body to hold back his anxiety. It had always been there in a way that was unconscious to me, but I was picking up on it in a very clear and obvious way.

And I spoke to him effortlessly about it without hedging myself out and excessively explaining myself and angling myself to be understood and filtering my expressions through my intellect... which I am always doing because it's all I know how to do.

In everything I express, I'm always trying so hard and weaving in defense. But in this situation I could just speak as my real self.

So, I've caught glimpses of my authentic self. But it's buried under layers of filtering and very robust and effective protection mechanisms. The world isn't really a place where those parts of me have been safe.

So, I see my desire for beauty and Feminine expression as being a single symptom of a desire to show up in life as myself... this deeper part with real Feminine power. And this has become clearer to me in recent years as the desire to look like the societal archetype of beauty has faded away. 

But if I actually do connect to this deeper Feminine power... I know it would invite a lot of negative attention and so many people would feel threatened by it. There's a reason why society makes it just about impossible to be in touch with such a power.

[Sugarcoat]

29 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And when you're pretty in the eyes of society, you can't go into a 711 without 10 random people trying to hand you their dicks and their hearts.

I wonder if it’s more extreme in America where you live. Here in Sweden I haven’t heard such things happening to that extent. I see pretty women everywhere it’s quite common.

29 minutes ago, Emerald said:

 

And what's worse is the projection. So many men start seeing you as the arbiter of their worth as a human being. And if they put you in a position where you have to reject them and they're already shadow boxing with themselves over talking to you, it's really uncomfortable.

That’s something a lot of men could work on, how they pedestalize women’s beauty 

29 minutes ago, Emerald said:

 

But I'm only really sharing the parts of my light that I feel safe showing. It's only the Masculine parts of myself that I really feel safe and comfortable having them seen as they increase my power and my level of respectability without drawbacks. Luckily, I do have a strong and well-developed Masculine side.

But in my medicine journeys, in several journeys, I have seen what my nature is underneath the way I typically express.

And the image that it's presented itself as in a couple of my journeys is a slightly androgynous by mostly highly feminine, slightly alien-looking light being with long hair and soft Feminine features with currents of sacred geometry adorning it like delicate jewelry woven into the skin.

And the main strengths are very Feminine... like wisdom, softness, inherent self-worth, grace, ease, effortless internal authority, etc.

Then, in one mushroom trip that I took, the mushrooms made me sit with this terror that sits in my throat that I'd spent my whole life running away from. In my throat was all the suffering in the world. And I had to sit in abject terror for about an hour.

And then, I "fell through the bottom" of the terror and connected to a deeper part of myself. And the expression was soft, effortlessly authoritative, receptive, and highly perceptive of subtle energies. I was with a friend, and I could notice how he was unconsciously contorting his body to hold back his anxiety. It had always been there in a way that was unconscious to me, but I was picking up on it in a very clear and obvious way.

And I spoke to him effortlessly about it without hedging myself out and excessively explaining myself and angling myself to be understood and filtering my expressions through my intellect... which I am always doing because it's all I know how to do.

In everything I express, I'm always trying so hard and weaving in defense. But in this situation I could just speak as my real self.

So, I've caught glimpses of my authentic self. But it's buried under layers of filtering and very robust and effective protection mechanisms. The world isn't really a place where those parts of me have been safe.

So, I see my desire for beauty and Feminine expression as being a single symptom of a desire to show up in life as myself... this deeper part with real Feminine power. And this has become clearer to me in recent years as the desire to look like the societal archetype of beauty has faded away. 

But if I actually do connect to this deeper Feminine power... I know it would invite a lot of negative attention and so many people would feel threatened by it. There's a reason why society makes it just about impossible to be in touch with such a power.

That’s great you’ve been able to identify so clearly what it is you want to get more in touch with and express. You showcase a lot of self awareness too.

I too have experienced wanting to get in touch with and working to become in touch with a kind of effortless authentic expression. I haven’t got  much experience of feminine vs masculine at all, but rather this insecure vs confident effortless self. Trying to break through the insecurity to reach that authentic flow. So I relate to that you wrote about wanting to show up as yourself. The way we express ourselves and especially in discussions that are more heated there’s so much identity entangled in it, emotions, and this can breed that defensiveness and trying to maintain a safe self image, filtering our true expression to protect ourselves etc. So it’s a lot to unravel there for sure… 

And since masculine energy and men dominate the intellectual spheres it can be hard to show up more feminine 

Edited December 18 by Sugarcoat

[whh2222]

I couldn't care less about the problems of beautiful women lol 

[Raze]

23 hours ago, Emerald said:

I was considering sharing something similar.

The idea that "women's #1 value is reproduction" assumes a male-centric viewpoint.

And it could be said that, from the female-centric viewpoint, the #1 value for men is reproduction... That is, if we're actually functioning from a Darwinian scientific perspective that boils human existence down to survival and reproductive functions.

When it comes to reproduction, males and females of a sexual species exist for this very reason. Without the sexual reproductive function, there would be no such thing as male and female.

But Leo seemed to be trying to play off of this Darwinian scientific perspective for women, while exempting men from the evolutionary lens and to see men as the exempted beneficiaries of Darwinian evolution but not as participants in it.... and to view men's value as non-relational and self-contained and women's value as purely relational... and specifically dealing with the reproductive element of relational value.

But men and women have always had most of our evolutionary value wrapped up in community connection and contribution. So, everyone's evolutionary value is relational... and reproduction is just one relational evolutionary values that we all possess.

And older adults who are past their child-rearing age don't lose evolutionary value. If it were the case, women wouldn't be living so long past Menopause.

Ultimately, the Darwinian lens only describes a fraction of what a person is and is just bad science if we try to scientifically reduce half of the population to a single function.

Yet again... perhaps those in glass houses should not throw stones.  

If we look at nature beyond the human species, the primary function of the males of many different species is literally just for the purposes of reproduction and nothing more.

Let's pull a Jordan Peterson... but instead of Lobsters, let's apply Praying Mantis logic to humanity instead.  

The male main purpose is survival. It’s basic evo psych that men are attractive for survival purposes and women for reproductive purposes, with some cross over between both. Both to the end that those who survive and reproduce pass on their genes and are relevant to the future.

Edited December 19 by Raze

[AerisVahnEphelia]

On 12/16/2024 at 0:55 AM, Leo Gura said:

Women themselves value this. Which is why they are obssesed with cosmetics, clothes, hair, eyelashes, botox, and depressed from watching Instagram.

A woman's #1 value is reproduction. Not according to me. According to biology. People have completely lost touch with what a woman's function is: to raise children.

Again, not according to me. According to 300,000 years of human history.

People have become so post-modern they are now stupid. Can't even understand what a woman is.

I like how you think of yourself as socialist lol seems like you coming back to some ground too. 

On 12/16/2024 at 1:30 AM, Nemra said:

@Leo Gura, so when a woman wants to pursue different things in life, she is actually BS-ing and wasting her time and instead should focus on having children and raising them?

I think he is right to say everyone maximize potential.

Today guys become femboy to attract girls. 

Girls try to looks more like man cause they think it will makes them closer.

Maybe Freud was right but everyone use the tools they have for it.

 

A super hot woman's don't need to work she can live off sugar daddy or millions on onlyfan nowadays.

Or just attract DiCaprio take his clout and enjoy his sugar daddy money.

But don't be jealous everyone goes through his own karma.

 

Some things are easier others are harder.

A good thought to feel good. Pleasure is limited by your biology too.

Which means money , sex , drugs can't be over used. It's super easy to reach the end of your brain pleasure, around 40k of weed then you need years to balance back. Basically you can't buy happiness. 

Monks are the real hedonistic maxxing.

They probably bath in stable orgasm.

This work for all things. 

Which means you can't go beyond your pleasure limitation anyway. 

So suffering is loading back your coaster before the next high !

Edited December 19 by AerisVahnEphelia

[Emerald]

32 minutes ago, Raze said:

The male main purpose is survival. It’s basic evo psych that men are attractive for survival purposes and women for reproductive purposes, with some cross over between both. Both to the end that those who survive and reproduce pass on their genes and are relevant to the future.

From a Darwinian perspective, both males and females have the same purposes... reproduction and survival. The same is true for all species.

If we're not talking about the Darwinian perspective, than there is no scientific backing for the question of purpose because purpose isn't an inherent quality of the universe.

[aurum]

29 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

 

PUAs taking notes 

[MoonLanding]

On 12/15/2024 at 7:55 AM, Leo Gura said:

Women themselves value this. Which is why they are obssesed with cosmetics, clothes, hair, eyelashes, botox, and depressed from watching Instagram.

A woman's #1 value is reproduction. Not according to me. According to biology. People have completely lost touch with what a woman's function is: to raise children.

Again, not according to me. According to 300,000 years of human history.

People have become so post-modern they are now stupid. Can't even understand what a woman is.

Practically speaking, the dilemma of beautiful women is such that they hardly hear the truth, almost no one say no to them. They live their lives in a false reality 🫧 since most men and women want to fuck them.  They see no need of self development since everyone thinks they are amazing and perfect including Google. But that bubble 🫧 starts to burst when old age comes calling... It exactly like a Child star situation.

Edited yesterday at 02:51 AM by MoonLanding

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

@Emerald Your assumption that humans got to where they're now by being able to organize themselves into communities is laughably wrong, literaly thousands of animal species are capable of organizing themselves into communities and yet none of them achieved even 1% of what humans managed to achieve. The main things actually separating us from the rest is our superior brains and our 5-fingered hands - or in other words, our superior inteligence and our ability to make tools. And since your long posts are structured in a way in which each paragraph is suppose to be a logical continuation of the previous one, and since your innitial assumption is completely wrong, we can safely assume most of what you said in that post and in the posts following after that is also incorrect (since most of your posts are built on incorrect assumptions)

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

@Emerald Your assumption that humans got to where they're now by being able to organize themselves into communities is laughably wrong, literaly thousands of animal species are capable of organizing themselves into communities and yet none of them achieved even 1% of what humans managed to achieve. The main things actually separating us from the rest is our superior brains and our 5-fingered hands - or in other words, our superior inteligence and our ability to make tools. And since your long posts are structured in a way in which each paragraph is suppose to be a logical continuation of the previous one, and since your innitial assumption is completely wrong, we can safely assume most of what you said in that post and in the posts following after that is also incorrect (since most of your posts are built on incorrect assumptions)

Those superior brains are certainly part of what helps us survive. But our superior brains amount to literally nothing if we don't have a group/community/society of people to cooperate with.

Show me evidence of a time in history where there were individual human beings surviving alone in the wild with nothing more than their large brains. There may be an odd case here and there of a solitary survivor out in the wilderness... but the vast majority of humans would perish in the wild without the support of a community.

I suspect you've had such a strong reaction to my posts (and even threw in some ad hominem attacks) because you like to conceptualize of yourself as an independent person. But there is no such thing as a truly independent person. It's not in our nature because we didn't evolve that way at any point in human history.

Modern people often don't realize how much they rely on other people every single day. So, we can afford to entertain the illusion that we are independent and self-sufficient. But it's just that what was once a bunch of small cooperative hunter-gatherer groups has grown into a larger hyper-cooperative society.

The number one survival value that people provide is community, as that enables us to cooperate and create complex civilizations. And it has always been how we get the majority of our physical and emotional needs met. And without society/community, human beings would have a very short life expectancy.