Is Latin America the most red region in the world?

[Verg0]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The warmer, the more of a developmental clusterfuck it is.

I guess Australia and New Zealand are nice.

Yeah, great. I asked chat GPT about it and it came up with this: 

Chat GPT:

"Determining which countries, areas, or cities align with Ego Development Theory (Susanne Cook-Greuter) and Spiral Dynamics models is complex because these frameworks describe individual development rather than the development of entire cultures or societies. However, some regions, cities, or communities foster environments that support higher stages of development, such as Autonomous (E8), Construct-Aware (E9), Turquoise, or even Yellow in Spiral Dynamics.

General Observations:

1. Spiral Dynamics Model:

Most societies operate at multiple levels simultaneously, but the dominant stage in any culture affects the collective worldview.

For example:

Orange (Achievement-driven): Focused on material success, science, and individual achievement (e.g., corporate culture in the U.S.).

Green (Postmodern, Pluralistic): Community-oriented, environmentally conscious, and values diversity and self-expression.

Yellow (Integral): Systems-thinking, self-directed exploration, and integrative solutions.

Turquoise (Holistic): Spiritual unity, global consciousness, and transcendence.

2. Ego Development Theory:

Advanced stages (Construct-Aware or Unitive) are rare globally but may be more common in communities focused on personal growth, spiritual practice, or self-actualization.

---

Countries/Regions Supporting Higher Development

Here’s a breakdown of countries or areas that align with higher developmental stages:

---

1. United States (Certain Cities/Regions)

Why:

The U.S. contains pockets of Orange (Achievement-driven) and Green (Postmodern), with emerging Yellow (Integral) and Turquoise (Holistic) communities.

Cities like Sedona (Arizona), Taos (New Mexico), Boulder (Colorado), San Francisco (California), and Ashland (Oregon) have strong spiritual, environmental, and self-actualization movements.

Holistic centers (e.g., Esalen Institute in California) support Construct-Aware and Turquoise development.

Focus: Green, Yellow, and emerging Turquoise.

---

2. Costa Rica

Why:

Known for eco-communities and spiritual retreats, Costa Rica has attracted people focused on holistic living and sustainability.

Areas like Nosara, Santa Teresa, and Dominical are havens for eco-conscious, postmodern thinkers.

Ayahuasca centers and yoga retreats support psychedelic integration and personal transformation.

Focus: Green and Yellow.

---

3. The Netherlands

Why:

Strong progressive and postmodern values, emphasizing tolerance, diversity, and sustainability.

Cities like Amsterdam foster open-minded, pluralistic communities while exploring psychedelic therapy and holistic wellness.

Legal and regulated approaches to plant medicine support self-actualization.

Focus: Green, Yellow.

---

4. Peru

Why:

Spiritual hubs like Pisac and Sacred Valley align with Construct-Aware and Turquoise development through connection with nature and indigenous wisdom (e.g., ayahuasca, Andean spirituality).

Centers around plant medicine provide frameworks for exploring consciousness and integrating ego-transcending experiences.

Focus: Green, Turquoise.

---

5. Brazil

Why:

Areas like Vale do Capão and Alto Paraíso de Goiás draw people engaged in spiritual exploration and holistic community building.

Strong integration of indigenous traditions, such as ayahuasca in Santo Daime and União do Vegetal, supports ego dissolution and Turquoise awareness.

Focus: Green, Turquoise.

---

6. Australia

Why:

Cities like Byron Bay are holistic hubs with a strong focus on personal growth, spirituality, and sustainability.

Emerging Yellow and Turquoise communities thrive here, emphasizing integration of spirituality, nature, and self-expression.

Focus: Green, Yellow, Turquoise.

---

7. Canada

Why:

Cities like Vancouver and Victoria are strongholds for postmodern values, environmentalism, and progressive policies.

Psychedelic therapy is becoming more accessible, and there’s a growing focus on indigenous wisdom.

Focus: Green, Yellow.

---

8. Thailand

Why:

Koh Phangan (Srithanu) attracts holistic practitioners, spiritual seekers, and systems thinkers.

Postmodern and integral communities often focus on spiritual practice, ecstatic dance, and integration.

Focus: Green, Yellow.

---

9. Bali, Indonesia

Why:

Ubud is a hub for spiritual practice, yoga, and holistic retreats.

While the area has a heavy tourist influence, it fosters postmodern and even some Turquoise approaches through community gatherings and integration circles.

Focus: Green, Yellow.

---

10. New Zealand

Why:

Known for its eco-consciousness and respect for indigenous Māori traditions, New Zealand offers a Green foundation with emerging Yellow communities.

Nature-centered lifestyles and sustainability align with systems thinking.

Focus: Green, Yellow.

---

Ranked by Developmental Fit

1. Pisac, Peru (Green/Turquoise focus through deep spirituality and indigenous wisdom).

2. Vale do Capão, Brazil (Similar to Pisac with stronger eco-conscious integration).

3. Big Island, Hawaii (USA) (Holistic communities in a Yellow/Turquoise context).

4. Costa Rica (Sustainability and spiritual integration).

5. The Netherlands (Highly developed Green values with emerging Yellow systems).

6. Byron Bay, Australia (Yellow and Turquoise spiritual communities).

7. Thailand (Koh Phangan) (Emerging Yellow through postmodern gatherings).

8. Ubud, Bali (Green, with spiritual and creative development opportunities).

9. New Zealand (Eco-conscious Green systems with Yellow potential).

10. Canada (Vancouver) (Postmodern values in a progressive Green context)."

[Leo Gura]

Brazil is a developmental hellhole. It is not Green.

Thailand also not.

You can find hippie Green retreat centers around the world, but this has virtually nothing to do with a nation's actual development level.

Edited Sunday at 03:48 PM by Leo Gura

[quantumspiral]

4 hours ago, Ayham said:

Hi from Iraq, I don't know about Latin America but it is red af here, but I would say more blue depending on the place.

Some areas and settings are very red, some are very blue, and some are very orange, a green area is nonexistent for example.  

BTW, in Iraq, lawyers are jobless (and also everyone lol) because most of the time, the "law" gets implemented by clans, like, your last name is your clan, each clan has a head chief or something, people use their clans to get back at people and stuff, either through taking money from people or sometimes it evolves into a gun fight.

But actually Iraq is developing a lot recently, like in the last few years, it is becoming much more orange, these stuff are getting rare, I just hope nothing happens in Iraq because we are just getting ourselves together lol (since the tensions in the middle east are fire right now).

Interesting, thanks for sharing!

[Not me]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Brazil is a developmental hellhole. It is not Green.

Thailand also not.

You can find hippie Green retreat centers around the world, but this has virtually nothing to do with a nation's actual development level.

100%! I did an exchange year there 6 years ago and it felt light years behind Finland (where I’m from). 
 

My high school geography teacher there didn’t believe in climate change, and the justification she gave was: ”The ice in the north pole melts every summer anyways.”

I was mindblown.

 

[Ramanujan]

14 hours ago, Basman said:

Africa is likely the least developed continent in the world despite being the richest in terms of natural resources. It has great geographical challenges which makes it extremely expensive to export wares.

france and United Kingdom exploited Africa for 5 centuries

[Alex4]

17 hours ago, Verg0 said:

@Leo Gura

And some warmer regions? (Asking for personal bias - I'm planning to move next year) 

If you have money and your income  will not depend on the local economy, Barcelona. But keep in mind that rent is quite expensive. 

Edited Monday at 08:14 AM by Alex4

[quantumspiral]

@Leo Gura You should go to the south of Brazil. Many parts on a par with Western Europe

Edited Monday at 01:25 PM by quantumspiral

[Basman]

7 hours ago, Ramanujan said:

france and United Kingdom exploited Africa for 5 centuries

Its a contributing factor but not the sole one. Bad geography is way more pertinent today.

[quantumspiral]

@Basman That's why Africans always thrive as soon as they leave their challenging geography, right?

[Not me]

@quantumspiral definitely not true, unless you’re comparing to the worst parts of Western Europe

Edited Monday at 02:45 PM by Not me

[quantumspiral]

@Not me I would say Curitiba is- although admittedly I've not spent more than a couple months there.

[Recursoinominado]

On 12/15/2024 at 0:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

Brazil is a developmental hellhole. It is not Green.

Yeah, we are mostly red/blue, with some orange and even less green.

[Not me]

2 hours ago, quantumspiral said:

@Not me I would say Curitiba is- although admittedly I've not spent more than a couple months there.

Fair enough. I’ve only lived in RS so can’t know for sure either.

[Fountainbleu]

On 12/15/2024 at 8:47 AM, Nilsi said:

Spiral Dynamics is such a disgusting piece of ideological weaponry.

I've been asking this question myself for a long time now. That's why I haven't read the Spiral Dynamics (Don Beck) book yet. Have you? A long time ago, I decided consciousness>Spiral Dynamics. But now I'm focussing more on the human, I think I could grow a lot from reading and studying it.

Edited yesterday at 01:37 AM by Fountainbleu

[Leo Gura]

Remember that you can always find isolated pockets of higher development almost anywhere. The real issue is the level of development of the average person and the institutions, not an isolated pocket of wealth and luxury.

Yes, there are luxury resorts for Westerners even in Africa or Afghanistan.

A millionaire in Africa or India can live pretty well in a private gated community.

Edited yesterday at 09:53 AM by Leo Gura

[Consept]

Travelling around Colombia, I would see it's predominantly blue, most towns have a church as the main center point in the town square and the people in general are quite religious and try, although sometimes fail to follow a God fearing path. Obviously there's a crime element as well but I wouldn't say it was the majority. Another thing I learned doing a tour in medelllin through one of Comunas, is that when it was very violent and crime was high, there weren't many opportunities for people, there were also issues with the farq guerrillas who would pressure people towards crime. The mayor invested heavily in the Comuna, which encouraged more tourists to visit and in turn gave local people a chance to make money from the tourists and then crime rates dropped. 

So essentially peoples level is impacted heavily by survival, I guess we all knew this but seeing it in action in this way was very eye opening. 

[CARDOZZO]

Average brazilian is blue with orange dots here and there.

[El Zapato]

ahem... ChatGPT is tripping on this one:

Jungles and deserts tend to have a deleterious effect on development but that notwithstanding the greatest issue with lands south of the American border is a very long history of exploitation.  Mistreat a child and the legacy remains for generations, mistreat an entire continent and the legacy remains for centuries. The interesting thing that many Americans misunderstand, even fear is that sociologists have termed the U.S. Southern border as a 'Darwinian Filter'.  While largely unrecognized by the conscious mind that nagging 'sense' continues to niggle at the American consciousness.

One of the very large and ongoing 'psychological' issues that plague 'Southern Americans' is a fear of the exploitative nature of its legacy starting with Europeans and ending with their people mimicking the behavior.  The big boogie man?  Authoritarianism in the form of 'Communism'.  They just cannot let that go and will favor a 'fascist state over Communism' despite the fact they are essentially the same thing.

It is very frustrating for me, but you know at our core we are all hopelessly foolish.  As one study demonstrated Pigeons have better judgement when determining outcomes.

 

 

 

[El Zapato]

Just for fun, my DNA results say I'm 20% Mexican-Native American and 10% Peruvian-Native American.  That makes me both Aztec and Incan, yeah, I'm bad!  I am in the line of Eva Longoria and directly descended from this unfortunate individual:

The Incan mummy

https://www.tiktok.com/@livin.lavina.loca/video/7439012207624490286

 

Edited yesterday at 11:46 AM by El Zapato

[quantumspiral]

@El Zapato I thought the Spanish killed all the Aztecs