Is Latin America the most red region in the world?

[quantumspiral]

There seems to be an obsession with respect, domination and violence in Latin America that is rooted in the ancient cultures of the Americas, Spanish colonization and military dictatorships that goes beyond spiral dynamics.

The highest homicide rate cities are always in Latin America (Tijuana, Ciudad Juárez, Ciudad Obregón, Acapulco). 

On a country wide level, the highest homicide rates have been found in Central America and the Carribean (Jamaica, El Salvador, Honduras).

Is Latin America the most red region in the world?

 

 

[PenguinPablo]

All the highest homicide cities are in Mexico  

[quantumspiral]

@PenguinPablo Yes. Of course, drugs and cartels play a (huge) role there- and there's geographic (being directly below the largest drug market in the world) and economic (poor kids from villages in the country see the only people who have money are the cartels who come through in their trucks and even tactical gear sometimes) In fact, I think the vast majority of homicides in Mexico are linked with organized crime.

I have to ask myself, if in 1900 the entire population of Mexico was replaced with Finnish, Swiss, Singaporeans or Japanese, would we see as much brutality in narco trafficking as we do today?

 

Edited Sunday at 01:10 PM by quantumspiral

[Leo Gura]

Middle East and Africa is lower.

Edited Sunday at 01:27 PM by Leo Gura

[Basman]

Africa is likely the least developed continent in the world despite being the richest in terms of natural resources. It has great geographical challenges which makes it extremely expensive to export wares.

[quantumspiral]

@Leo Gura So you think they are more red than Latin America?

Edited Sunday at 01:54 PM by quantumspiral

[Buck Edwards]

Well it depends on what you define as developed. USA is toxic stage orange. 

[quantumspiral]

@Basman They have a significant amount of purple I believe

[quantumspiral]

@Buck Edwards Spiral Dynamics

[Nilsi]

Spiral Dynamics is such a disgusting piece of ideological weaponry.

It’s the same rhetoric that’s been used for centuries to justify colonialism and political intervention: "They’re underdeveloped savages, and we, the morally superior enlightened ones, must bring them democracy and freedom." The U.S. has looted resources, propped up dictators, and crushed autonomy in Latin America, and now Spiral Dynamics strolls in with its color-coded charts, slapping a pseudo-psychological gloss on the same tired, colonialist narrative.

Just take Bill Clinton - the original Ken Wilber and Spiral Dynamics fanboy-in-chief. All that supposed “Spiral Wizardry” didn’t stop him from bombing Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, and Kosovo, leaving trails of destruction while selling it as “helping the less developed.”

And, of course, any critique of this nonsense gets dismissed as “green relativism” by smug elites who think they alone can see what’s high and low on the sacred ladder of human evolution. Naturally, they’re the ones “more evolved,” while anyone who dares to question them is stuck in the “flatland” of pluralism. It’s the same colonialist sneer we’ve always known, just dressed up in rainbow colors and self-congratulation.

[Ayham]

Hi from Iraq, I don't know about Latin America but it is red af here, but I would say more blue depending on the place.

Some areas and settings are very red, some are very blue, and some are very orange, a green area is nonexistent for example.  

BTW, in Iraq, lawyers are jobless (and also everyone lol) because most of the time, the "law" gets implemented by clans, like, your last name is your clan, each clan has a head chief or something, people use their clans to get back at people and stuff, either through taking money from people or sometimes it evolves into a gun fight.

But actually Iraq is developing a lot recently, like in the last few years, it is becoming much more orange, these stuff are getting rare, I just hope nothing happens in Iraq because we are just getting ourselves together lol (since the tensions in the middle east are fire right now).

[Ishanga]

1 hour ago, Basman said:

Africa is likely the least developed continent in the world despite being the richest in terms of natural resources. It has great geographical challenges which makes it extremely expensive to export wares.

I find it interesting a Continent like Africa, its like India as one of the oldest, if not oldest culture on the planet, and its so far behind on quality of life for its people on all levels, in comparison, a place like Canada where I live, its not as bad as it used to be, but in the winter months, which used to be almost half the year, its cold and inconvenient as hell, the harshest of environments but the quality of life here is high, very very high compared to other places and and much much higher than in Africa, but their environment is not as harsh as it is here in Canada, but we've made it work, why is this, and we are multi cultural now, very diverse now, but in my younger days, it was either Europeans (which dominated the population) or Aboriginals, which pale in comparison in population and quality of life compared to Europeans that are here...

[Basman]

4 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I find it interesting a Continent like Africa, its like India as one of the oldest, if not oldest culture on the planet, and its so far behind on quality of life for its people on all levels, in comparison, a place like Canada where I live, its not as bad as it used to be, but in the winter months, which used to be almost half the year, its cold and inconvenient as hell, the harshest of environments but the quality of life here is high, very very high compared to other places and and much much higher than in Africa, but their environment is not as harsh as it is here in Canada, but we've made it work, why is this, and we are multi cultural now, very diverse now, but in my younger days, it was either Europeans (which dominated the population) or Aboriginals, which pale in comparison in population and quality of life compared to Europeans that are here...

Africa presents various challenges that make it one of the most challenging continents to develop society in. Basically, its hard to establish trade to to a lack of natural ports and vast distances, plus various other factors like disease and political instability that exacerbates the issue.

Africa's most famous export historically where slaves because slaves exceed in value the cost of exportation.

 

[Verg0]

I'm curious, what might the the highest developed places regarding Spiral Dynamics? 

I guess you can't call a single country fully reaching into yellow / turquoise yet. (Not even green really) 

But there might be cities, villages, communities or temples who tap into that space, also if not fully of course. 

What are those places? Anyone has any recommendations or a list? 

 

 

[Basman]

18 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Spiral Dynamics is such a disgusting piece of ideological weaponry.

It’s the same rhetoric that’s been used for centuries to justify colonialism and political intervention: "They’re underdeveloped savages, and we, the morally superior enlightened ones, must bring them democracy and freedom." The U.S. has looted resources, propped up dictators, and crushed autonomy in Latin America, and now Spiral Dynamics strolls in with its color-coded charts, slapping a pseudo-psychological gloss on the same tired, colonialist narrative.

Just take Bill Clinton - the original Ken Wilber and Spiral Dynamics fanboy-in-chief. All that supposed “Spiral Wizardry” didn’t stop him from bombing Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, and Kosovo, leaving trails of destruction while selling it as “helping the less developed.”

And, of course, any critique of this nonsense gets dismissed as “green relativism” by smug elites who think they alone can see what’s high and low on the sacred ladder of human evolution. Naturally, they’re the ones “more evolved,” while anyone who dares to question them is stuck in the “flatland” of pluralism. It’s the same colonialist sneer we’ve always known, just dressed up in rainbow colors and self-congratulation.

Spiral dynamics isn't a moralistic system that says anything about the worth of individuals. It is a simply an attempt at mapping out social human development.

Also, bombing isn't inherently an evil act. These are complex geopolitics that can't be simply dismissed as fraudulent without context.

[Verg0]

@quantumspiral

Just based on personal travel experience, Africa felt more red (&purple) then Latin America. 

But also it depends on what part of the continent you're in. There's highly developed and safer areas in both. 

So  ultimately it's impossible to generalize something like this into a construct like spiral Dynamics. 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Verg0 said:

I'm curious, what might the the highest developed places regarding Spiral Dynamics? 

Scandinavia, Switzerland, Netherlands.

Edited Sunday at 03:12 PM by Leo Gura

[Verg0]

@Leo Gura

And some warmer regions? (Asking for personal bias - I'm planning to move next year) 

[Ishanga]

18 minutes ago, Basman said:

Africa presents various challenges that make it one of the most challenging continents to develop society in. Basically, its hard to establish trade to to a lack of natural ports and vast distances, plus various other factors like disease and political instability that exacerbates the issue.

Africa's most famous export historically where slaves because slaves exceed in value the cost of exportation.

 

Yes but that is what I am asking for, the environment is not as harsh as Canada, which is very large and vast as well land scale wise, and with winter harshness, the use of the land is limited, but we build railways, and other things that make it work, they haven't in Africa and they have been around in that land allot longer than we have in terms of using the land for our purposes, that is what I am saying, yes they have their issues with land usage and how to make it works for their population, all countries and continents have this issue, but Africa and Africans have had allot more time to deal with it and they haven't..we have and that is the issue...

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Verg0 said:

@Leo Gura

And some warmer regions? (Asking for personal bias - I'm planning to move next year) 

The warmer, the more of a developmental clusterfuck it is.

I guess Australia and New Zealand are nice.

Edited Sunday at 03:32 PM by Leo Gura