Going to university just to make a lot of money, is it wise?

[Schizophonia]

17 minutes ago, OBEler said:

I am a full stack developer with  over 10 years of experience. Yes AI will not replace software developers soon. BUT software developers spending time on real coding is almost obsolete.Ai can do faster and better.

I don't know how it works in game development,which is very special, I would think about your employees if they really are that good if they don't use AI.

 

 

You can still cop but soon i will be able to generate custom video games just by asking an AI.

 

[gambler]

Programming was fun for me.. until it became hard.

Prior to taking computer science classes in highschool, I was creating websites.
I was designing the look in photoshop and then I would code it with HTML/CSS and got some experience with php/mysql.

That and the first year of computer science (11th grade) was when it was fun.

But come 2nd year (12th grade) of computer science and I absolutely hated it.
Sure non-web programming wasn't it for me, it was unenjoyable to the point I crossed off computer science as a potential major.
But it also made me realize I didn't care for web programming anymore. That chapter was over.

So I agree with Leo, you should try it first before you major in it.
Could save you time and money if you decide to switch majors during your studies.

And try it with the more annoying programming languages like Java or something. And push yourself to where you're past the basics and trying to do more advanced stuff.

Edited Sunday at 08:07 PM by gambler

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, gambler said:

Programming was fun for me.. until it became hard.

Prior to taking computer science classes in highschool, I was creating websites.
I was designing the look in photoshop and then I would code it with HTML/CSS and got some experience with php/mysql.

That and the first year of computer science (11th grade) was when it was fun.

But come 2nd year (12th grade) of computer science and I absolutely hated it.
Sure non-web programming wasn't it for me, it was unenjoyable to the point I crossed off computer science as a potential major.
But it also made me realize I didn't care for web programming anymore. That chapter was over.

So I agree with Leo, you should try it first before you major in it.
Could save you time and money if you decide to switch majors during your studies.

"Computer engineer" is basically a modern form of low-paid laborer.
There are plenty of traditional jobs that are more enjoyable and pay much more.

[gambler]

9 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

"Computer engineer" is basically a modern form of low-paid laborer.
There are plenty of traditional jobs that are more enjoyable and pay much more.

At the entry level sure you might not get paid as much, but the more experience you get and the more complicated stuff you can do, the salary becomes a good one.
I have two friends that get paid extremely well, one of them holds an important position with Respawn Entertainment for the Apex Legends game.
There's nothing wrong with pursuing it if it's actually something you want to do.

Edited Sunday at 08:15 PM by gambler

[nerdspeak]

LLMs just makes programmers (and other symbolic analysts) 20% more productive. 
 

Did Microsoft Excel eliminate accountants? No, it just meant they could more work faster. 
 

If you read history, the same cycle repeats every time there’s a big new invention. “Omgz, all the people will have no jobs.” 

[Davino]

@Majed Programming is challenging for artists, basically you're speaking the language of robots. I'm finishing this year computer engineering and there are many things in the tech field to study besides programming..

Having said this, a quote that changed my life is the following:

The job that will make you earn more money is the one rooted in your passions, strengths and love.

So ironically, if you wanna make huge money: Go for music. Life is bullshit when there is no love and money can't make the trick. You'll spend years of tedious study and meaningless work for a money that won't satisfy your soul. You'll get into a job position where you cannot pursue two paths at the same time and the conformism of doing the same you've done can kill your dream and life purpose.

My advice is plain and direct: bro you're an artist, make art, play music, sell emotions to people, sell tears, sell laughs, sell moments of inspiration. Therein lies your genius and not in pressing keys all day.

Edited Sunday at 11:04 PM by Davino

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

soon i will be able to generate custom video games just by asking an AI.

Some crap gimmick maybe, but not a game anyone would wanna play.

Creating a playable game is so insanely hard that no AI will do it.

Most of this AI stuff is gimmickry. It's not serious work. It will flood the zone with hollow rehashed gimmickry but not serious work that people love.

Edited Monday at 03:58 AM by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

Going to university to make money is not a great idea. You need to have brilliant ideas and use them for a startup with a group of people. That's how you make money. Other thing is investments like real estate. 

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, OBEler said:

I am a full stack developer with  over 10 years of experience. Yes AI will not replace software developers soon. BUT software developers spending time on real coding is almost obsolete.Ai can do faster and better.

Coding a basic website yes.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Some crap gimmick maybe, but not a game anyone would wanna play.

Creating a playable game is so insanely hard that no AI will do it.

Most of this AI stuff is gimmickry. It's not serious work. It will flood the zone with hollow rehashed gimmickry but not serious work that people love. 

I'll be able to code almost everything by myself.

The only thing I didn't learn which takes O creativity : coding.

I just need to think properly on a system architecture and AI will help me with this.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't buy the hype.

AI cannot do real programming work. Not even close.

All this AI stuff is shallow and surface level. It doesn't do serious work.

I employ full-time programmers. No AI can replace them. The very idea of replacing a programmer with AI is a joke.

Not at all. But knowing how to use AI to get it to render good result. 

is a skill.. that also takes lot of hours. 

But I think it's the most important. 

That's not hype. Not like crypto who is going nowhere. AI produce solid result when you know how to use it and spell properly the magic words. 

 

 

[nerdspeak]

Even calling it AI is a bit silly. LLMs are not AI. 

I work in a qualitative field in academia and LLMs are almost useless. Even with sophisticated prompt engineering, their analysis is very generic.

Good enough to pass an intro-level course? Maybe. Good enough to write something that could survive peer review? You have to be kidding. 

[Ninja_pig]

@Majed I think going to university would be a good idea and it would allow you to make money. Just a couple suggestions:

1. Don't accrue any debt, or at least accrue very little debt. If your plan is financial freedom then debt can totally screw you. Work on the side and do coege part time if that's what you have to do.

2. Don't expect it to be super easy to get a job, but don't think it's impossible either. Make sure you do side projects, network, and try yo get internships or do research at your university during your undergrad. A degree without any other experience is worth very little.

3. Make sure you leave a little time on your path to financial freedom to pursue your passion on the side. Be writing music or otherwise perfecting your craft in order to keep your heart beating and your passion burning. Also, you never know when you will die, so don't delay too much to get your art into the world.

But yeah go to college it is a good idea. Degrees are valuable even if they aren't an automatic ticket to a job. I wish you the best of luck.

[nerdspeak]

33 minutes ago, Ninja_pig said:

@Majed I think going to university would be a good idea and it would allow you to make money. Just a couple suggestions:

1. Don't accrue any debt, or at least accrue very little debt. If your plan is financial freedom then debt can totally screw you. Work on the side and do coege part time if that's what you have to do.

Majed is in Lebanon thus university is likely free or very inexpensive. However, I want to point out that this anti-student debt discourse in the US is quite destructive. 

1. Federal student debt (through Dept of Education) has very lenient repayment terms (basically if you're not making a lot of money you pay 0) and it's forgiven after 20-25 years depending on the plan you're on. Yes, private student debt is terrible and predatory, but you can avoid it. 

2. Studies show people who try to avoid student debt by working through school get worse grades and are much more likely to drop out. 

Of course, it would be better if university were free or close to it in the US, but the political situation makes it almost impossible to boost funding back to Cold War levels. Thus the govt and higher ed bureaucrats have figured out this patch solution through the Dept of Education student loans.

I know Elon wants to abolish it lol but it's never going to happen. Even if you accept his philistine neoliberal logic, the whole Silicon Valley ecosystem is based on commodifying the basic research done at the University of California and Stanford, and they're both funded heavily by DoE. 

Why doesn't the US government communicate how lenient the DoE student loans are? Again, it's for political reasons -- they don't want to expose it to attack from the right. It is basically a direct transfer payment program to young people who qualify, and the more libertarian side of the Republican party hates it. You saw how Biden trying to do some moderate reform resulted in these attacks through the courts that threw the whole system in disarray. 

If you do university, go to the best place possible to learn what you need to learn. Then figure out how to pay for it. I say this as someone who (1) is an academic; (2) who tried to be clever and minimize student debt It would have been easier if I just used the system how it's intended, a bit more US federal debt would not impact my life at all and would have made my path way more straightforward, quicker, and fun.  

Edited Monday at 03:08 PM by nerdspeak

[OBEler]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Coding a basic website yes.

No I develope complex financial software products. Desktop and web applications. It helps everywhere.

Before I worked at biotech company and programmed laboratory robots. Also there AI would help massive although I don't think it's capable of creating complex algorithms. But this happens rarely in software development.

Edited Monday at 06:20 PM by OBEler

[Viking]

Try taking a free online course in programming and see if you like it.

Who knows, maybe along with making money you will enjoy it.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

7 hours ago, OBEler said:

No I develope complex financial software products. Desktop and web applications. It helps everywhere.

Before I worked at biotech company and programmed laboratory robots. Also there AI would help massive although I don't think it's capable of creating complex algorithms. But this happens rarely in software development.

Ego prevent using it enough.

In fact even if llm wasn't ai it's revolutionary 

[nerdspeak]

9 hours ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

Ego prevent using it enough.

In fact even if llm wasn't ai it's revolutionary 

Half of what it spits out for me is wrong, misleading, or too ambiguous to be useful.

I’m better off doing the work myself. 

Edited yesterday at 10:34 AM by nerdspeak

[Ninja_pig]

@nerdspeak well got-dayum. Didn't know I had it so wrong! I have often theorised that college would be less expensive if student loans weren't a thing though. Collages charge such insane tuition because people are able to pay for it. I'm just personally glad I have a degree and no debt.

[nerdspeak]

@Ninja_pig They charge high tuition because that's what it costs to provide a US-style university education, and the public funding base has been cut drastically. 

Even at the most expensive schools, the private liberal arts colleges like Amherst or Williams, the $85k tuition (bear in mind, avg tuition paid is $15k because of financial aid) doesn't fully cover the college's cost per student. They make up the shortfall through income from their endowment investments. 

There is administrative bloat (with Vice deans of xyz), but the main issue is it's expensive to educate people, which is why there needs to be public funding. Most students don't end up at rich private schools like Williams. 

We could make it cheaper by reducing quality. E.g., I'm in Belgium right now, and the university's cost per student is more like $10k (each student pays close to $0). Why so cheap? 

• Average class size is ~500 at undergraduate level and over 100 even at master's-level
• No office hours for direct interaction with professors -- this starts only at PhD level 
• Libraries are open 9 am - 5 pm on weekdays only 
• Athletics faciltiies and university-sponsored student life basically doesn't exist 

This is in Belgium, one of the wealthiest and most advanced countries in the world. So, if there weren't student loans, public universities in the US would be more like this (lower quality). It didn't use to be this bad in Belgium but the system is different -- university budgets are directly provided by the regional government -- and, guess what? Center-right and far-right parties have been working hard to defund the universities for the past 30 years. 

As societies get richer, it makes sense to spend more on education. It's better if the rich pay for it directly rather than through bizarre back-door student loan schemes like we have in the US, but it's a creative adaptation andit could be worse. 

Edited 23 hours ago by nerdspeak