How do red states in the US make any real progress if they keep staying conservative?

[Hardkill]

How are red states in the US able to make any substantial progress if they are constantly dominated by so much conservative ideology?

How do states like West Virginia, Alabama, Oklahoma, Wyoming, and Mississippi, which face very significant economic and social challenges, manage to develop their economies and improve the lives of their residents?

Why aren't most people in those states angry at their elected officials for not doing enough to improve public education, healthcare access, economic opportunities, environmental infrastructure, crime, and so on? In fact, contrary to right-wing claims, crime rates have been worse overall in red states than in blue ones. So, why haven't many residents in those states not been holding their elected officials accountable?

Edited Saturday at 12:01 AM by Hardkill

[aurum]

@Hardkill

Isn't it obvious?

People in red states don't hold their elected officials "accountable" because their elected officials already represent their collective level of development. They are getting what they want overall.

 

Edited Saturday at 03:55 PM by aurum

[PenguinPablo]

@Hardkill they make progress within their limited world view. stepping outside of that is too scary.

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

@Hardkill

Isn't it obvious?

People red states don't hold their elected officials "accountable" because their elected officials already represent their collective level of development. They are getting what they want overall.

 

I know, but then how do they ever get to a point where they're like "That's it! This isn't working anymore! Where done with our Republican/conservatives!"?

and how do those states ever improve their public education, healthcare access, economic opportunities, environmental infrastructure, crime, etc.?

Edited Saturday at 02:04 AM by Hardkill

[aurum]

49 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

I know, but then how do they ever get to a point where they're like "That's it! This isn't working anymore! Where done with our Republican/conservatives!"?

and how do those states ever improve their public education, healthcare access, economic opportunities, environmental infrastructure, crime, etc.?

They don't.

Expect that you will probably die without seeing deep change. 

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

They don't.

Expect that you will probably die without seeing deep change. 

That's crazy!

During the 1600s, 1700, 1800s, 1900s, the aughts, and even to some extent during the 2010s, all of those same red states kept improving significantly in the long-run.

I even pray that if none of the laws that Biden and the Democrats in Congress passed ever get repealed then those policies will actually continue developing all of those red states tremendously in so many ways for many years.

Are you saying that those states have now reached a dead end forever?

Okay, these are the ways I think any more real progress can be made in those parts of the country are:

• During times when the Democrats control both chambers of Congress and the presidency simultaneously and enact serious liberal/progressive-leaning policies?
• The passage of liberal/progressive-leaning ballot measures in those states
• grassroots movements that can pressure their state and local level elected officials to enact liberal/progressive-leaning policies

How about all of that?

Edited Saturday at 04:02 AM by Hardkill

[aurum]

30 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Are you saying that those states have now reached a dead end forever?

No obviously not.

I'm just saying it probably won't happen in our lifetime.

If I'm wrong, great. But I doubt it.

Long-term societal change does not happen on a human-centric timeframe.

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

No obviously not.

I'm just saying it probably won't happen in our lifetime.

If I'm wrong, great. But I doubt it.

Long-term societal change does not happen on a human-centric timeframe.

I see what you're saying.

Otherwise, it will have to come from either top-down Democratic control at the federal level or from grassroots campaigning or ballot measures.

Combating the right-wing propaganda in those states would also be of terrific help.

I also just remembered that we need to wait for a lot more educated folk and more non-whites to migrate from blue states to red states as well.

Edited Saturday at 05:34 AM by Hardkill

[aurum]

48 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Otherwise, it will have to come from either top-down Democratic control at the federal level or from grassroots campaigning or ballot measures.

Even that will only be minimally effective.

You're not going to top-down develop the red-states. It doesn't work that way.

Grassroots campaigns are only as good as the grassroots participants.

[Leo Gura]

At one point every country in the world was dominated by very conservative ideology. But progress happened regardless. You can't stop progress, though conservatives will certainly die trying.

Edited Saturday at 09:50 AM by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

At one point every country in the world was dominated by very conservative ideology. But progress happened regardless. You can't stop progress, though conservatives will certainly die trying.

So, what do you think the red states will need to no longer be dominated by conservative ideology?

[Hardkill]

13 hours ago, aurum said:

Even that will only be minimally effective.

You're not going to top-down develop the red-states. It doesn't work that way.

Grassroots campaigns are only as good as the grassroots participants.

Well, yeah, top-down Democratic policies won't force the red states to change their overall ideology from conservativism to centrism or liberalism quickly. However, we can't deny that they've always worked to make real progress for those states' economy, physical infrastructure, human rights, opportunities, access to various essential resources, etc.

Edited Saturday at 07:14 PM by Hardkill

[Raze]

 

[Alex4]

They vote conservative because they believe the alternative is worse and fear their country could become the next Venezuela.

[Alex4]

On 14/12/2024 at 4:38 PM, Hardkill said:

So, what do you think the red states will need to no longer be dominated by conservative ideology?

The change in mindset needs to be very profound and a complete 180-degree shift, it’s very difficult to convince someone of that. It’s not enough to give them a lecture on the benefits of the whole world holding hands together and ending inequality. Also consider that it is not just about throwing away an ideology in which you have to admit that you have been wrong all your life. It will most likely also cause you to distance yourself from your loved ones and lose friends.

I would say that a large part of those who vote progressive don’t do so out of conviction but because they believe they will get something in return. So if I were you I would rather waste my time trying to educate your own electorate.

[Romanov]

On 12/14/2024 at 4:50 AM, Leo Gura said:

At one point every country in the world was dominated by very conservative ideology. But progress happened regardless. You can't stop progress, though conservatives will certainly die trying.

Conservatism today is progressive whereas the left is regressive. When the left goes so far to the point of insanity, it makes conservatives look as the progressives bringing sanity. Not all progress is for the better either, take cancer as an example. The disease makes progress at the expense of your health. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Romanov said:

Conservatism today is progressive whereas the left is regressive. When the left goes so far to the point of insanity, it makes conservatives look as the progressives bringing sanity. Not all progress is for the better either, take cancer as an example. The disease makes progress at the expense of your health. 

It's hard to imagine a political party more insane, cancerous, and embarassing than today's conservatives.

[Hardkill]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It's hard to imagine a political party more insane, cancerous, and embarassing than today's conservatives.

How can conservative/Republican officials in a safe red state ever be held accountable for their terrible policies?

Why don't people in red states, especially in the poorest red states, feel like their state-level officials are letting them down even in education, healthcare access, economic opportunities, environmental infrastructure, crime, etc.?

[Romanov]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It's hard to imagine a political party more insane, cancerous, and embarassing than today's conservatives.

They’re not perfect by any means, but at least they serve as a bulwark against the postmodern, nihilistic, self-refuting relativist Left where feelings dictate reality. 

[Hardkill]

5 minutes ago, Romanov said:

They’re not perfect by any means, but at least they serve as a bulwark against the postmodern, nihilistic, self-refuting relativist Left where feelings dictate reality. 

Tell that to the great liberal/progressives like TR, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Truman, JFK/LBJ, Obama, and Biden, all of whom saved and dramatically improved our country in many dimensions.

What about the civil rights leaders like MLK and Malcolm X, the women's rights movement, and the gay rights movement?

Edited 18 hours ago by Hardkill