Question about short lasting psychedelics

[bazera]

@Leo Gura 

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Deep tripping will unleash energies within you which you never even knew you had. All self-restraint and common sense will fly out the window. You won't be able to confine yourself to your bed or a room. You can get dangerous ideas and then act on them without your normal sober caution and better judgment. For example, you might get the idea to stab yourself in the eye with a pencil, just because.

Have you done something like that? Not stabbing yourself, but something that you would never do sober.

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura yeah but not on pure substances like 5 meo dmt, 5 Meo malt

On 16.12.2024 at 4:48 AM, Leo Gura said:

It is essential if you do serious tripping. Otherwise you will eventually do something stupid. It's only a matter of time.

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, OBEler said:

yeah but not on pure substances like 5 meo dmt, 5 Meo malt

This is a dangerous and false idea.

The substance is irrelevant.

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura 

Have you done something like that? Not stabbing yourself, but something that you would never do sober.

Yes

[Clarence]

@Leo Gura Thanks for the clarification.

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

For example, you might get the idea to stab yourself in the eye with a pencil, just because.

That’s really intense. Does the deep tripping you’re talking about here refer to really high doses of psychedelics, such as 50+ mg of MALT or 5-MeO, or to something else? I’d like to know what you have in mind when you talk about serious tripping.

[bazera]

@Leo Gura So, even though you had taken some precautions, you still did some things? 

What do you think are the top dangers of psychedelics? Physically killing yourself? 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Clarence said:

Does the deep tripping you’re talking about here refer to really high doses of psychedelics, such as 50+ mg of MALT or 5-MeO, or to something else? I’d like to know what you have in mind when you talk about serious tripping.

It can be any substance at high dose. High dose is relative to whatever is high for you.

10 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura So, even though you had taken some precautions, you still did some things?

Yes.

If you trip deep enough, even basic precautions will not be enough to keep you safe.

Quote

What do you think are the top dangers of psychedelics? Physically killing yourself? 

• Delusions and fantasies, mental unhingement
• A psychological addiction to escapism
• Physical injury
• Ruining your relationships, saying things to people you shouldn't say
• Disillusionment with material life

Edited December 19, 2024 by Leo Gura

[bazera]

@Leo Gura

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

• Delusions and fantasies, mental unhingement
• A psychological addiction to escapism
• Physical injury
• Ruining your relationships, saying things to people you shouldn't say
• Disillusionment with material life

If you are in a more genuine state from which you do those things (if you are), doesn't that make them more true in some sense?

So the situation here is that we don't want to do these things because we care about survival, and the survival force is so great that it just doesn't disappear after a trip, but during tripping you lose care for survival (temporarily).

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura

If you are in a more genuine state from which you do those things (if you are), doesn't that make them more true in some sense?

Delusions and fantasies are not more true. They can be very false.

Reckless behavior is also not necessarily aligned with truth or goodness.

Quote

So the situation here is that we don't want to do these things because we care about survival, and the survival force is so great that it just doesn't disappear after a trip, but during tripping you lose care for survival (temporarily).

Yeah, but you always have to care about survival to some degree or you will enter a living hell.

You have to be very careful about how to go about transcending survival, as you could easily trap yourself. It's easy to fool yourself into thinking you are above survival when you really aren't. That's one of the biggest traps of psychedelics. They can make you feel invincible -- for a while. But then material reality catches up with you.

Edited December 19, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Clarence]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It can be any substance at high dose. High dose is relative to whatever is high for you.

What I meant was between high/heavy doses and extremely high doses. For me, 25-30 mg is a heavy trip. I’ve never tripped above 35 mg and never got into such dangerous territory. So I would guess that those kinds of experiences could happen at even higher doses, such as 45-50+ mg (for me). But I could be wrong.

It would be quite a leap to go that high. 35 mg of MALT was extremely intense for me. I couldn’t tell the difference between past, present, real, and imaginary at all anymore, but also, I didn't retain much from this trip as I think at was too high. My clearest and most profound trips and awakenings happened at 25-30 mg.

[Leo Gura]

The higher the dose the higher the risk, obviously.

But it's not just high dose. It can also be re-dosing or how long or often you trip.

I've had times were I tripped for 12-24hrs in a row. That increases the danger. I've had times where I tripped for a month in row.

The danger gets exponential if you trip frequently and re-dose often.

Edited December 19, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Clarence]

@Leo Gura Will you teach us (maybe in the course) how to properly trip for 12-24 hours in a row?

Also, do you consider sharing with us details about your most dangerous experiences and other things you haven't yet talked about?

[shree]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

If you trip deep enough, even basic precautions will not be enough to keep you safe.

I often imagined building a small, soundproof room with padded walls, like in psychiatric wards, made for heavy trips.

There’s still a risk of doing something reckless, like poking your eye, but it would minimize harm and provide the feeling of safety when it gets deep.

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, shree said:

I often imagined building a small, soundproof room with padded walls, like in psychiatric wards, made for heavy trips.

There’s still a risk of doing something reckless, like poking your eye, but it would minimize harm and provide the feeling of safety when it gets deep.

You could turn a large closet into a tripping room.

[mmKay]

Make sure there is no mold hidden in the closet though 

[OBEler]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a dangerous and false idea.

The substance is irrelevant.

@Leo GuraI thank you so much for showing awareness to this danger. I am still a beginner so I never thought this would even happen to you. This is an very advanced insight thank you.

[shree]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You could turn a large closet into a tripping room.

I will probably do something like this in future.

[integration journey]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Deep tripping will unleash energies within you which you never even knew you had. All self-restraint and common sense will fly out the window. You won't be able to confine yourself to your bed or a room. You can get dangerous ideas and then act on them without your normal sober caution and better judgment. For example, you might get the idea to stab yourself in the eye with a pencil, just because.

So is there a point of deep tripping or taking higher doses? Any benefits from that? Or you recommend always sticking to lower doses? 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, integration journey said:

So is there a point of deep tripping or taking higher doses? Any benefits from that? Or you recommend always sticking to lower doses? 

There is much point. But counterbalanced by the risk.

Consciousness cannot be understood without deep trips.

Edited December 20, 2024 by Leo Gura

[IronFoot]

My protocol for high doses is the following:

 

1. Decide on the dose a few days ahead of time. If you want to redose or take a second substance, decide this ahead of time. These decisions should not be made while intoxicated or sporadically. (DMT while peaking on acid is super interesting. It is a lot though. Once was enough for me).

2. leading up to the trip, avoid other intoxicants, major dopamine kicks (cell phone usage, video games, porn).  I found I am able to go deeper if I do this. 

3. Remove any weapons, sharp objects, or anything that you feel would be a bad vibe or unsafe. Stick it in the trunk of your car. Plan to give your keys to your trip sitter and make a commitment to not touch your phone. Also, clean your room. There’s nothing worse than laying on the ground and noticing  dirt and crumbs everywhere. 
 

4. This should be a no brainer, but take a shit and piss before you dose. It’s crazy how much stress and anxiety not taking care of your bodily functions can cause when you are so fucked up you don’t even realize you need to go.

5. Have a friend or family member you trust come over to trip sit you. I use the term trip sit loosely.  I would generally isolate myself to a dark room in my home and maybe have some frequencies playing.  They just hang out in the living room. I don’t interact with them until I’m coming out of the trip.  
 

Every solo high dose experience I have had was set up like this. Having someone in the other room makes me have an easier time letting go. If I start having thoughts like “what if I hurt myself” or “what if something goes wrong”, I just remember I have a competent person in the other room that can handle an emergency if it occurs. This does the trick for me and I have had great experiences with this.  Honestly group trips and small dose solo experiences that don’t follow this protocol have felt more challenging and less safe.