Everything wrong with Stage green in a nutshell.

[Leo Gura]

Buddha should have run an ice cream stand.

#BuddhaFailed

[Consept]

@integral

Real talk though the people who have had the most positive impact on society throughout history are those that have either disregarded their opulent wealth completely or not used it. If you're talking about high consciousness individuals, which you are obviously it's hard to find one that wealth has been the main factor of their impact. Another way to look at it is how many people who had great wealth have actually been completely shackled by it and not been able to reach their potential high consciousness levels? As Jesus said its easier for the camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter heaven. I don't take this as a celebration of poverty and hatred of wealth, it's just a recognition of the unseen difficulties of having wealth and how it limits your spiritual growth. 

To reel off names of course Buddha, Jesus, Gandhi, Eckhart Tolle, Marcus Auelius is one of the most revered and remembered roman leaders because he didn't succumb to wealth and power and was able to be a leader in stoic thought centuries after his death. How many super rich people throughout history have increased societies consciousness? If anything most are just lessons in how wealth and power corrupt or excesses of wealth and many have actually brought a lot of suffering. I'm not saying money itself is evil but it's not the easy answer people believe it to be. 

[UnbornTao]

No vanilla, no problem

[integral]

If you build an AI that makes billions selling e-cigs, you can then give it the agenda to spend all its proceed building High Consciousness schools. 
 so what this AI is, is it takes profits from one industry and redirects it into another industry that is better for the whole. E-cig companies will exist whether you participate in it or not. So the right move is to create funnels that reallocated wealth in an intelligent way. Funneling wealth from one system into another system. 

This is already happening at scale all the time, in most scenarios we are funneling all of societies wealth into the pockets of a single human's bank account who is spiritually bankrupt. 

So far I have never seen a single wealthy person ever Target the root cause of systemic problems in society. For one they have no motive to do so, and even if they had the motive they don't see the problem. Because the problem benefited them, so it's not a problem from their perspective.

48 minutes ago, Consept said:

Real talk though the people who have had the most positive impact on society throughout history are those that have either disregarded their opulent wealth completely or not used it. 

How many super rich people throughout history have increased societies consciousness?

What changed Societies consciousness are certain technologies that were put into place. Government, science, religion, education, technology, economics, agriculture, and social structures. These things took us out of debilitating circumstances and put us into a Utopia of comfort that we're currently living in. Which completely changed culture and allowed people to grow to a higher stage of human development. Without science you would be throwing shit into the streets if you even had streets at all. Have you ever interacted with a boomer they grew up without the internet. Their level of a Consciousness is permanently Limited because they missed a crucial phase of human development, lack of exposure to a learning medium like the internet.

The Buddha and the likes had plenty of impact in influencing the development of Society but it's only one piece of the puzzle. Not everyone needs to be Buddha. We also need  people who understand consciousness to actually take position of power. Abraham Lincoln and the people surrounding his movement ended slavery through a coordinated effort. Would Donald Trump of ended slavery? We need the people who are more conscious to be in a position to affect change.

We need both, but for the love of God if you're given a billion dollars. You now have the responsibility to be a participant.
--
 We need writers and we need practical participators.

There has always been both in human history.

Edited December 13 by integral

[Consept]

4 minutes ago, integral said:

There has always been both in human history

True but we were talking about this Robbins guy, he wanted to make impact on the consciousness of people not just make money selling ice cream and not be burdened with unearned fortune. It could be argued that he made more impact with his books than he ever would've done with his fortune. 

I agree though technology and survival needs are important for society. However I would argue the balance currently is way off where we are completely focused on growth and innovation and the expansion of our collective consciousness is being hindered because of it. We can't actually handle the innovation, look at what has happened with social media, for all its good points it's caused chaos in terms of making sense of the world, as well as division. Throwing more fuel on the fire doesn't necessarily help consciousness grow 

[integral]

Imagine you had a family and you're struggling to survive, someone gives you a billion dollars, are you refusing out of some kind of moral principle? No you accept the money and you feed your family.

THE WORLD IS YOUR FAMILY. Take the money and feed YOUR FAMILY. 

It's a lack of perspective leading to a misunderstanding of what your responsibilities are. 

---
 And if you're smart you're not going to go to Africa and just give a bunch of people food until you run out of money. Instead you funnel the wealth from one system into another funneling an infinite supply of resources into a holistic agenda.

Hire people to write material, make high Consciousness movies that are engaging and fun, create far larger holistic organizations, you have so many resources to do so much. The possibilities are endless.

And you could still be a writer.

Edited December 14 by integral

[aurum]

1 hour ago, integral said:

THE WORLD IS YOUR FAMILY. Take the money and feed YOUR FAMILY.

That's not how it works.

I think there's space for life purpose and conscious people taking some action in the world. But why rationalize power / money seeking?

You don't need to save the world.

[integral]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

That's not how it works.

I think there's space for life purpose and conscious people taking some action in the world. But why rationalize power / money seeking?

You don't need to save the world.

The point of doing it in a half-assed way is that it's less effective than doing it in the most effective way possible. Instead of minimizing individual carbon footprints, one should use resources to build a system that is 1000 times more effective.

Look for efficient effective ways to accomplish goals.

The more power and money and influence you have the more efficient and effective of a system you can build.

---

Think of it as if you're playing the game civilization.

if you can save the world, save the world? Why not what else there to do? How else is going to do it?

Edited December 14 by integral

[ryoko]

You don't see how you're being used by the money, not the other way around. Do you see the karmic baggage that comes with it? Every dollar has the energy of a person behind it. The more people's imprint you take on, the more of a "politician" you become. Because now you're obliged to help those who actually worked to make the billion(the actual hands who worked and didn't get the money). The moment you take on the billion, you become a busy bird, doing this doing that, no time to do your own stuff. 

In a monetary system, you cannot channel it to create infinite value. You simply can't. There's too much overhead cost and a billion dollars is nothing to even things out. 

By the time, we get billions worth of value for free, we won't have a monetary system. And that's something I look forward to. 

But there are ways to make use of the billion. Donate it to Open Source development entirely/part by part. Both for softwares, infrastructure, and anything which is of higher value. Now it's about giving back to the world in a better way. But you're still doing your own thing, because you gave it all away already. 

You become free of it the moment you create the intention to give it away. Whether or not you wanna be involved in the process of giving it to the world depends on the individual. Depends on their nature. Just focus on creating your own value. And decide if you're doing it to accumulate wealth or to give wealth to the world. Because if you give to the world enough, the world will take care of you. No, wrong, you are taking care of yourself. See how beautiful this is. 

Remember, your life purpose was created in light of scarcity induced by the system, when there's no scarcity for you, there's no purpose either. 

And one more thing, you can't force a generation of people to just develop. Each and everyone have to put in the work to develop themselves (and not waste their potential by making money, because let's face it, majority can't follow their passion). And that's not feasible in a monetary society. Because of accumulation by the few and how the majority have to do useless circus just to get the money for basic stuff. That's absurd. 

Edited December 14 by ryoko

[aurum]

1 hour ago, integral said:

The more power and money and influence you have the more efficient and effective of a system you can build.

Good luck with that.

[Consept]

@integral

Why are you not solely focused on making money in the first place so that you can make the world a better place through resources? Maybe you are doing this I don't know, but if this is so effective in terms of saving the world, why dont you go down a career path that makes you crazy money and then use that money to accompish the ideas you lay out? You could do sales or create some course that people need. In theory if you're not trying to get rich then your not trying to feed your family. 

You think people who are disagreeing with you are idealistic and at stage green but you actually come across as idealistic and utopian in that you think a billionaire can just decide to raise the consciousness of the world and it would happen. 

[integral]

@Consept

That is my goal, I don’t see the difference between being a life coach as a goal or building a funneling system as a goal. They both seem perfectly fine life purposes. A life coach builds a system for the purpose of collective growth. But that could only scale so far. 

The government has been funnelling wealth this entire time it’s just called taxes. And they take all of the profits and incorporated them into government agenda. Real allocation of wealth from one system to another has been happening this entire time. It’s just that the government is mediocre at it. 

You guys are depicting what I’m saying as utopian and completely insane. When this technology has existed this entire time it’s called taxes. It’s called the government. And it’s one of the most important technologies ever made.

Funnelling wealth from one system to another is an intelligent thing to do. 
 

Edited December 14 by integral

[Consept]

2 hours ago, integral said:

It’s just that the government is mediocre at it. 

I agree, the reality is its hard to allocate wealth in a democratic society even if everyone has good intentions, let alone when you bring the inevitable corruption or people in the system having allegiances to their particular group. I would say the government has probably improved in allocation, currently its not great but over the last few hundred years people are definitely better off overall. 

2 hours ago, integral said:

You guys are depicting what I’m saying as utopian and completely insane.

I wasnt saying its insane but yes utopian. 

 

2 hours ago, integral said:

Funnelling wealth from one system to another is an intelligent thing to do. 

Essentially what it seems youre advocating for is that the individual when enriched with wealth, can do a better job then a government at allocating wealth. Its not impossible that one person could make better decisions but theres also the possibility of them making disastrous decisions even if they have good intentions or even worse decisions if they are actively trying to attain more money and power. Its almost like a monarchy but of rich, powerful people, an oligarchy if you will. Some would say we do live in this reality now, if you think about campaign donations, lobbying etc, rich peoples interests are the ones that are being met and they choose to spend their money however they want. Its even more of a reality with people like Musk who has been put in charge of government spending. 

The reason why your idea is utopian is because you're assuming that someone who only cares about the betterment of the human race and is high in consciousness, will get that money and power and then make amazin decisions that work out for society. You're not taking into account that in a society where in theory, anyone can get rich and powerful, most people will not be like this so you're opening the door for these people to make societal decisions. 

The government is specifically setup so that there are checks and balances in decisions and so its not one rich man that has all the power. In practice its definitely not perfect but I would make the argument that its better than just playing lucky dip with rich and powerful people allocating wealth.

 

[aurum]

2 hours ago, integral said:

The government has been funnelling wealth this entire time it’s just called taxes. And they take all of the profits and incorporated them into government agenda. Real allocation of wealth from one system to another has been happening this entire time. It’s just that the government is mediocre at it. 

You guys are depicting what I’m saying as utopian and completely insane. When this technology has existed this entire time it’s called taxes. It’s called the government. And it’s one of the most important technologies ever made.

Funnelling wealth from one system to another is an intelligent thing to do. 

And why should your vision for society matter more than someone who is less conscious?

What if I agree with how government currently allocates wealth? What if you're corrupt? 

Why do you get to be king?

A major function of government collecting taxes is to ensure that someone doesn't do exactly what you are describing. 

Government is a public entity, owned by no one and run by collectively elected officials with checks and balances. 

Edited December 14 by aurum

[integral]

23 minutes ago, aurum said:

And why should your vision for society matter more than someone who is less conscious?

What if I agree with how government currently allocates wealth? What if you're corrupt? 

Why do you get to be king?

A major function of government collecting taxes is to ensure that someone doesn't do exactly what you are describing. 

Government is a public entity, owned by no one and run by collectively elected officials with checks and balances. 

That's not at all what I mean. I wanted you to explain how funneling wealth is part of the intelligence of our economic system. Taxes are very important and useful for the government entity to function.

In the same way, you could have a business in an oil company that cuts throat to get ahead while then funneling all that wealth to something that benefits society. The government literally does this, they tax oil companies and then use it to benefit society.

Right now, all of the wealth is being funneled to the least conscious people because they provide big solutions like Amazon, private equity...

This Is The game everyone is playing so conscious people should be playing this game too, take responsibility of big companies and intelligently allocate that wealth.

[aurum]

26 minutes ago, integral said:

That's not at all what I mean. I wanted you to explain how funneling wealth is part of the intelligence of our economic system. Taxes are very important and useful for the government entity to function.

In the same way, you could have a business in an oil company that cuts throat to get ahead while then funneling all that wealth to something that benefits society. The government literally does this, they tax oil companies and then use it to benefit society.

Right now, all of the wealth is being funneled to the least conscious people because they provide big solutions like Amazon, private equity...

This Is The game everyone is playing so conscious people should be playing this game too, take responsibility of big companies and intelligently allocate that wealth.

But your analogy to government is not equivalent.

You are talking about starting a private company.

[Miguel1]

Just give me a bil, I’ll take it.

I’ll invest it into meditation centers and pay employees well etc.

[integral]

On 12/14/2024 at 11:26 AM, Consept said:

I agree, the reality is its hard to allocate wealth in a democratic society even if everyone has good intentions, let alone when you bring the inevitable corruption or people in the system having allegiances to their particular group. I would say the government has probably improved in allocation, currently its not great but over the last few hundred years people are definitely better off overall. 

I wasnt saying its insane but yes utopian. 

 

Essentially what it seems youre advocating for is that the individual when enriched with wealth, can do a better job then a government at allocating wealth. Its not impossible that one person could make better decisions but theres also the possibility of them making disastrous decisions even if they have good intentions or even worse decisions if they are actively trying to attain more money and power. Its almost like a monarchy but of rich, powerful people, an oligarchy if you will. Some would say we do live in this reality now, if you think about campaign donations, lobbying etc, rich peoples interests are the ones that are being met and they choose to spend their money however they want. Its even more of a reality with people like Musk who has been put in charge of government spending. 

The reason why your idea is utopian is because you're assuming that someone who only cares about the betterment of the human race and is high in consciousness, will get that money and power and then make amazin decisions that work out for society. You're not taking into account that in a society where in theory, anyone can get rich and powerful, most people will not be like this so you're opening the door for these people to make societal decisions. 

The government is specifically setup so that there are checks and balances in decisions and so its not one rich man that has all the power. In practice its definitely not perfect but I would make the argument that its better than just playing lucky dip with rich and powerful people allocating wealth.

Everything you're saying is exactly what I mean. It's supposed to be gritty, and you have to do many things that are not morally aligned as part of playing the game correctly. I don't want to give up my queen, but when the position calls for it, I need to sacrifice all my pieces to win.

The system is filled with people at many different stages of development, and part of your toolkit will involve "questionable activity" depending on which part of the system you're dealing with. In the end, you have to coordinate everything in the right direction like a conductor.

We are already in a situation where people are given all the wealth and power and are making despicable decisions with that money in disastrous ways. The disaster is already happening. It's not that if we put conscious people in charge they might make disastrous decisions; all of this is already happening.

Every politician has been bought, companies have more rights than people. We are funneling all our wealth to a select few who then use it unwisely.

Right now, the system is capitalism. Start an online gambling business, and then funnel the wealth to a different system, like conscious politics.

The government is already doing this, but as an individual, if you want to participate in effective altruism, the same strategy applies. You can start a business that appears on the surface to be stage green and up with conscious business in mind. Or if someone gives you a billion dollar ice cream company you could just funnel that wealth into another system and intelligently play the game. They both effectively do the same thing.

Edited December 15 by integral

[integral]

21 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

Just give me a bil, I’ll take it.

I’ll invest it into meditation centers and pay employees well etc.

FINNALY. But you don't want to pay the employees well , instead grow as large as possible and influence as many systems as possible within Society with your conscious agenda.

Funnel ice cream money into electing High Consciousness politicians.
Funnel ice cream money into building 100 new schools a year, that covered the topics people truly need in life.
 

Grok

Quote

- Funnel ice cream money into reforming campaign finance laws to reduce the influence of money in politics.
- Funnel ice cream money into systemic changes in education policy to address educational inequality and curriculum relevance.
- Funnel ice cream money into overhauling the criminal justice system to tackle systemic racism and mass incarceration.
- Funnel ice cream money into addressing systemic poverty through economic policy reform and wealth redistribution.
- Funnel ice cream money into restructuring healthcare systems to ensure universal access and reduce disparities.
- Funnel ice cream money into initiatives to dismantle systemic barriers to housing and promote affordable housing policies.
- Funnel ice cream money into combating systemic discrimination in employment practices and promoting equal pay.
- Funnel ice cream money into systemic changes in environmental policy to address climate change at its roots.
- Funnel ice cream money into reforming tax systems to close loopholes and ensure fair taxation.
- Funnel ice cream money into addressing systemic issues in food production and distribution to combat food deserts and insecurity.
- Funnel ice cream money into systemic changes in immigration policy to promote humane treatment and integration.
- Funnel ice cream money into tackling systemic corruption in government and institutions.
- Funnel ice cream money into systemic changes in media ownership to promote diversity of voices and reduce monopolies.
- Funnel ice cream money into addressing systemic issues in mental health care access and stigma reduction.
- Funnel ice cream money into systemic changes in land use and urban planning to promote sustainable development.
- Funnel ice cream money into reforming the financial sector to prevent systemic economic crises and predatory lending.
- Funnel ice cream money into systemic changes in energy policy to transition away from fossil fuels.
- Funnel ice cream money into addressing systemic issues in water rights and access to clean water.
- Funnel ice cream money into systemic changes in labor laws to protect workers' rights and prevent exploitation.
- Funnel ice cream money into tackling systemic issues in the foster care and child welfare systems.

The money has to be funneled into the root problem of society. And that will grow the biggest tree. 

Edited December 15 by integral

[Scholar]

The problem with stage green today is that it is mutating, thanks to social media, into a collectivist, almost stage blue perversion of itself. The most judgemental, hypocrtical and witchhunty people nowadays are stage green, which is very disappointing.

Stage green was supposed to transcend things like peer pressure and normalcy, but it is attempting to actually enforce such things. It lacks creativity, looseness, compassion. Deviants are demonized.

 

It's sad, I think Spiral dynamics predictions no longer hold because of what social media does to individuals.