Republicans are better at talking than Liberals

[integral]

Republicans strongest attribute is they're ability at polish shit so well that you want to buy it. 

Trudeau is such a weak speaker. And you see this across the board with every liberal politician. They don't know how to shit talk.

Shit talking is a vital skill that liberals have to learn how to do effectively. We have moved into a social media age, people only want to be emotionally stimulated by the talking point and have no interest in facts or policies or truth.

It is vital to teach the next conscientious leaders to be able to talk smack endlessly.

There's a betting Market where you could bet on who's going to win the election. And I will be betting for the opposition because Trudeau is being blamed for everything associated with the Canadian economy, because his opponent is a master at framing him to be a criminal. Canada will be ruled by Republicans for the next 12 years and it will become more and more like the US during that period.

The era of Republican Trump types is going to explode. Trump has taught Republicans how to win elections. And Liberals are just NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE.

Edited December 10 by integral

[aurum]

12 minutes ago, integral said:

Republicans strongest attribute is they're ability at polishing shit so well that you want to buy it. 

It's not so much that republicans have superior communication abilities.

It's that what they are selling is more accessible to the average person. And they are often more willing to play dirty.

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

It's not so much that republicans have superior communication abilities.

It's that what they are selling is more accessible to the average person. And they are often more willing to play dirty.

Part of what you’re saying is true, but OP is right.

Democrats have been terrible at messaging for decades. They used to be masters at it when the New Deal coalition was around.

Examples of top Democratic slogans back in those days were:

FDR’S New Deal

Truman’s Fair Deal

JFK’s New Frontier

LBJ’s Great Society

They also used the bully pulpit far more frequently to get their messages across much more consistently.

Actually, Bill Clinton’s Bridge into the 21st century slogan was strong. Though Clinton himself didn’t use the bully pulpit forcefully enough.

Obama’s Hope and Change fully resonated powerfully with Americans. Yet, he hardly used the bully pulpit to push his liberal agenda because he was too afraid of being perceived as being “too partisan.”

Biden couldn’t communicate well enough for obvious reasons. Not to mention that his slogan “Build Back Better” didn’t make sense and was boring.

Corporate Democrats and progressives still to this day can’t come up with a set of fiery cohesive messages that represent the party’s agenda.

Plus, Democrats for decades generally haven’t had as much of a spine as Republicans do, which is why Democrats are often too afraid to say anything that might sound too offensive or come off as “too far to the left” for any group of people within their coalition. Plus, the party has to cater to too many moderates who are just too disaffected to fight for what’s right for our country and Liberals/progressives sadly make up the smallest percentage of voters in the country.

Republicans have a much more homogeneous coalition of voters, most of whom are racist white Christians with intense religious dogma and are addicted to hyper-capitalism. That’s why virtually all of them firmly believe in protecting all white American traditions and the rich at all of costs out of fear of that “our country is dying because of those radical left commies are destroying it!” They no longer have to worry about winning over moderates because of how far to the right the whole GOP has gotten, which sadly is still working for them.

 

Edited December 10 by Hardkill

[What Am I]

1 hour ago, integral said:

Trudeau is such a weak speaker. And you see this across the board with every liberal politician. They don't know how to shit talk.

Also, he sits like this. I choose to believe there's a correlation.

[aurum]

19 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Corporate Democrats and progressives still to this day can’t come up with a set of fiery cohesive messages that represent the party’s agenda.

Plus, Democrats for decades generally haven’t had as much of a spine as Republicans do, which is why Democrats are often too afraid to say anything that might sound too offensive or come off as “too far to the left” for any group of people within their coalition.

I mostly don't agree with these narratives.

It's not that the democrats lack "spine". It's that the democrats play more by the book, which is not a bad thing.

People want the democrats to stoop to the level of republicans. 

[Inliytened1]

@integral just these guys and that's only because the last four years sucked so bad.  That's what makes Trump look so good.

Musk has a bad lisp and Trump slurs his words. 

Edited December 10 by Inliytened1

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

I mostly don't agree with these narratives.

It's not that the democrats lack "spine". It's that the democrats play more by the book, which is not a bad thing.

People want the democrats to stoop to the level of republicans. 

The point is that Democrats got to go back more to the old days when they played hardball. Look at how Lyndon Johnson, one of the most progressive Democrats in US History, used hardball tactics during his time:

 

 

Edited December 10 by Hardkill

[aurum]

10 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

The point is that Democrats got to go back more to the old days when they played hardball. Look at how Lyndon Johnson, one of the most progressive Democrats in US History, used hardball tactics during his time:

 

You are describing corruption.

This is what these "hardball" tactics amount to. You want the democrats to be more corrupt to get their agenda passed.

[Hardkill]

31 minutes ago, aurum said:

You are describing corruption.

This is what these "hardball" tactics amount to. You want the democrats to be more corrupt to get their agenda passed.

But it worked back then and it was all truly for the good of the country. Besides, think about one big reason why Trump won the presidency twice. Even though Trump is utterly incompetent and never truly cared at all about anybody but himself, he still effectively PORTRAYED himself as a fighter who is willing to break norms and defy the institutions of our country for the people. 

People in our country are starving for someone who won't just talk like Trump, but will also actually fight like hell for them, like LBJ did even that leader goes against certain principles or rules.

Being a big softie with honor doesn't work a lot of times. Sometimes you have to do whatever it takes to survive and thrive big, even if it means doing something that goes against your own morals:

 

Edited December 10 by Hardkill

[aurum]

6 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

But it worked back then and it was all truly for the good of the country. Besides, think about one big reason why Trump won the presidency twice. Even though Trump is utterly incompetent and never truly cared at all about anybody but himself, he still effectively PORTRAYED himself as a fighter who is willing to break norms and defy the institutions of our country for the people. 

People in our country are starving for someone who won't just talk like Trump, but will also actually fight like hell for them, like LBJ did even that leader goes against certain principles or rules.

Being a big softie with honor doesn't work a lot of times. Sometimes you have to do whatever it takes to survive and thrive big, even if it means doing something that goes against your own morals:

 

Yes, corruption can be extremely effective at getting your survival agenda accomplished. That's the whole reason it's so prevalent.

In actuality, we will have to judge ethical situations on a case-by-case basis. More minor forms of corruption are likely necessary and can potentially be overlooked. 

But be careful, because it's a slippery slope.

The absolute #1 trap of corruption is that you will attack your opponents corruption while overlooking / justifying your own. If you care about conscious politics, being mindful of this must be your priority.

All evil deeds are done in the name of extinguishing evil. 

[BlueOak]

No they just lie better.

I have had to accept that lying is required to win anything against a liar. So liberals need to embrace that and just run constant lies about republicans all day.

Just take what works, personal attacks, lies, populism and pressure. The soft era of liberals wrecked them. Denouncing populism wrecked them. Trying to be moral, good-natured, and cooperative, its all a waste of time.

But ego aside, this is just the natural progression of authoritarianism rising. That which embraces or mirrors it does better. The aspects of Trump that go against it will cause him problems, the other option is to reflect it while remaining liberal. Both leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Edited December 10 by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

3 hours ago, aurum said:

You are describing corruption.

This is what these "hardball" tactics amount to. You want the democrats to be more corrupt to get their agenda passed.

Yes. It is required right now. The US is corrupt. The new global order is corrupt. Utopian ideals are dead in the water, either people get in the mud or they constantly lose. 

[aurum]

6 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Yes. It is required right now. The US is corrupt. The new global order is corrupt. Utopian ideals are dead in the water, either people get in the mud or they constantly lose. 

Nothing solves corruption like more corruption, huh?

What could possibly go wrong?

[Hardkill]

34 minutes ago, aurum said:

Nothing solves corruption like more corruption, huh?

What could possibly go wrong?

This is war.

Right now, Democrats and progressives are losing the messaging war.

More importantly, millions of Americans are now going to be hurt so terribly and lose their rights.

[Leo Gura]

They are not better, they just pander to ignorant people and ignorance always sells better than intelligence.

It's easy to peddle bullshit to rubes.

Calling that "better" is sick. It's the difference between skating downhill vs skating uphill. Skating downhill is easier but it also leads you off a cliff. So it's not better.

Edited December 10 by Leo Gura

[aurum]

49 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

This is war.

Right now, Democrats and progressives are losing the messaging war.

More importantly, millions of Americans are now going to be hurt so terribly and lose their rights.

If you want war so bad, then don’t cry when Trump’s goons start raiding people’s houses in the middle of the night and throwing them in prison.

All is fair in war.

[Schizophonia]

In France, the best debaters are the far left, because they actually have a real intellectual avant-garde of Marxist intellectuals and influencers trained by them.

[Schizophonia]

15 hours ago, What Am I said:

Also, he sits like this. I choose to believe there's a correlation.

Trudeau is just a liberal immigrationist.

The plague and cholera 

[What Am I]

3 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Trudeau is just a liberal immigrationist.

The plague and cholera 

He seems to be a vessel for an overarching group of policies that transcend just Canada. Policies of which people are becoming very tired.

[Hardkill]

On 12/10/2024 at 9:20 AM, Leo Gura said:

They are not better, they just pander to ignorant people and ignorance always sells better than intelligence.

It's easy to peddle bullshit to rubes.

Calling that "better" is sick. It's the difference between skating downhill vs skating uphill. Skating downhill is easier but it also leads you off a cliff. So it's not better.

What's your take on Democrats needing to use the same kind of hardball tactics as that of the Johnson Treatment like during the days of FDR, Truman, and Johnson?

Yes, it is indeed easier to pander to people's ignorance, fear, and hatred than to persuade them through rationality and compassion for others who aren't like them. However, you can't convincingly argue that Democrats and progressives don't need to work on seriously changing their messaging strategies, which have become less effective since the early 2000s compared to the more impactful messaging of the past, particularly during the progressive era of the early 20th century.

Plus, Democrats have to get rid of all of the useless elite consulting class that for decades has cost Democrats way too many elections from the local level to the national level. I really think that these so called top Dem strategists like Axelrod, Carville, and Jen O'malley Dillon are all through. We need fresh new vigorous blood with a thirst for no-holds barred fighting in the political arena and are much more tech savvy with all of the new Age digital communication out there.

The DNC chair needs a fresh new liberal warrior to run the committee.

Edited December 11 by Hardkill