Breaking news: Syria has been liberated from Assad’s dictatorship

[integration journey]

27 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

If Islamists take over Syria they will probably bring it back to the middle (or dark) ages. No science. No progress.

Assad already too Syria back before the dark ages. You have a distorted picture of Islamists. 
look at Turkey. It’s 99% percent Muslim and it has booming industries and amazing opportunities for work and school. That’s what Syria will head towards too god willing 

[integration journey]

@PurpleTree if this isn’t the dark ages then I don’t know what is. This was litterly a slaughterhouse prison 

Edited December 9 by integration journey
Clarity

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, integration journey said:

Assad already too Syria back before the dark ages. You have a distorted picture of Islamists. 
look at Turkey. It’s 99% percent Muslim and it has booming industries and amazing opportunities for work and school. That’s what Syria will head towards too god willing 

Because of Atatürk.

"What reforms did Atatürk make?

The leading legal reforms instituted included a secular constitution (laïcité) with the complete separation of government and religious affairs, the replacement of Islamic courts and Islamic canon law with a secular civil code based on the Swiss Civil Code, and a penal code based on that of Italy (1924–37)"

Abolished the arab script 

More womens rights

closer to Europe

and so on

[Raze]

19 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea but i’m talking about in the last 150 yrs.

The golden age of Islam is over 800 yrs ago.

Yea Egypt was really developed bro. Yea 3000 yrs ago 🥲

That’s not just because of religion, there are geopolitical and economic factors that are more relevant, Saudi Arabia is even more religiously extreme than Iran, yet is more developed. 

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

That’s not just because of religion, there are geopolitical and economic factors that are more relevant, Saudi Arabia is even more religiously extreme than Iran, yet is more developed. 

Is it? Is there a lot of science coming from Saudis a lot of Nobel price laureates?

Saudi is very backwards culturally imo.

Yea they have a lot of good infrastructure and such because of oil money. But was it Saudis who designed and built the burj Khakifa? Nope it was American architects and probably Indian workers.

In Saudi Arabia only like last year women were allowed to drive. 100s of people executed every year 🥲

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/09/saudi-arabia-highest-execution-toll-in-decades-as-authorities-put-to-death-198-people/

Edited December 9 by PurpleTree
Lol

[gambler]

11 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Is it? Is there a lot of science coming from Saudis a lot of Nobel price laureates?

Saudi is very backwards culturally imo.

Yea have a lot of good infrastructure and such because of oil money. But was it Saudis who designed and built the burj Khakifa? Nope it was americ architects and probably indian workers

You need to get on the case of Sub-Saharan Blacks.

But I'll say this, the reason why Saudis aren't architects isn't because of their religion.
The men all had free education, paid in full, for any university they can get into in any parts of the world. They can't use the excuse of religion.
I think the interesting part is that no Arab country from the peninsula has an innovative past.
Anything from ancient Yemen or North Saudi was learned from their neighbors or beyond, and the barriers to entry to learning and applying these new technologies was low, since it was rather primitive.
These guys descend from long lines of poor shepherds who were thugs before there was even an Islam.
They don't descend from artisans or farmers. You know, lineages that come from a history of doing intellectually demanding tasks.

Edited December 10 by gambler

[PurpleTree]

8 minutes ago, gambler said:

You need to get on the case of Sub-Saharan Blacks.

But I'll say this, the reason why Saudis aren't architects isn't because of their religion.
The men all had free education, paid in full, for any university they can get into in any parts of the world. They can't use the excuse of religion.
I think the interesting part is that no Arab country from the peninsula has an innovative past.
Anything from ancient Yemen or North Saudi was learned from their neighbors or beyond, and the barriers to entry to learning and applying these new technologies was low, since it was rather primitive.
These guys descend from long lines of poor shepherds who were thugs before there was even an Islam.
They don't descend from artisans or farmers. You know, lineages that come from a history of doing intellectually demanding tasks.

Yea Iran has much more potential and interesting history better womens rights etc.

 

Personally i don’t care what Saudi Arabia does. If they want to have less womens rights and more religious (imo backwards) more authoritarian etc it’s totally fine. Maybe their system suits them better. Also i’m not saying western is always better but miss me with “they are developed”

[integration journey]

[Mohammad]

Many of the current events in the middle east are the direct result of the weakening of IRGC and Iran's ruling system. Khamenei is getting hammered. If Hezbollah, Asad, Hamas, did not have the support and the money of Iran, they would have been destroyed many years ago. Iran is literally the richest country in the middle east, it is not just about oil production which Saudis are better at. And now the tables are turning. They are weakened, and major changes will happen in the coming years or maybe months! 

And you guys that are living in the west should know that Iranian people are suffering from the stupidity of their leaders, but they are also happy! They like how the game is changing. You have no idea how undeveloped these mullas and their proxies are. Lower stage Blue/stage red mentality.

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, Mohammad said:

And you guys that are living in the west should know that Iranian people are suffering from the stupidity of their leaders, but they are also happy! They like how the game is changing. You have no idea how undeveloped these mullas and their proxies are. Lower stage Blue/stage red mentality.

That’s nice.

There are three main problems imo.

Resources.
 

Too many outside forces that have interests and strong militaries, connections, secret services. Turkey, US, Israel, Russia, Iran etc.(bad neighbourhood)

And Islam/Islamists.

(also tribalism)

Those things make it really hard to have a free democratic or progressive society.

Edited December 10 by PurpleTree

[PurpleTree]

12 hours ago, integration journey said:

@PurpleTree if this isn’t the dark ages then I don’t know what is. This was litterly a slaughterhouse prison 

Yea but what comes after? If Islamists take over It’s like if Hitler was toppled by crazy violent (backwards imo) religious people who believe in millennia old fairy tales. And don’t believe in progress and womens rights, science etc.
Which obviously didn’t happen.

[zazen]

Of course it isn't available on CNN any more: https://edition.cnn.com/videos/international/2012/07/11/exp-amanpour-assad-2005.cnn

There are many hands involved in Syria. US / Israel didn't topple Assad by mind controlling every single Syrian into doing something they didn't want to - there was a genuine grass roots cause there. It's more like a table with different outside players sitting around it - with the Syrian people on the table itself.

The outsides players tilt the table enough to be able to move the situation to desired outcomes - the Syrians themselves flipped the table. Some players align on the same goals and decide to tilt the table in the same direction ie Turkey / Qatar can now have the Gas pipeline instead of Iran which Assad was leaning towards, and Turkey can return many Syrians from Turkey to Syria which was causing tensions within Turkey.

US baked the cake, rebels blew the candles - seems to be a good description. Without the level of intervention and sanctions applied to Syria affecting the people and brewing resentment to a tipping point that made even Assad’s army backdown. They must have also viewed the situation as not worth salvaging.

Another big part of why Russia and Iran didn’t do much beside being busy themselves was because they can’t fight for Assads army who were visibly standing down - so why get involved in a fight the Syrian army didn’t want to fight. Assad’s time was up, good riddance. This was the will of the people - that just so happens to align with the Western establishments goals.

How the situation plays out now is anyone’s guess.

Edited December 10 by zazen

[Raze]

6 hours ago, Mohammad said:

Many of the current events in the middle east are the direct result of the weakening of IRGC and Iran's ruling system. Khamenei is getting hammered. If Hezbollah, Asad, Hamas, did not have the support and the money of Iran, they would have been destroyed many years ago. Iran is literally the richest country in the middle east, it is not just about oil production which Saudis are better at. And now the tables are turning. They are weakened, and major changes will happen in the coming years or maybe months! 

And you guys that are living in the west should know that Iranian people are suffering from the stupidity of their leaders, but they are also happy! They like how the game is changing. You have no idea how undeveloped these mullas and their proxies are. Lower stage Blue/stage red mentality.

If Iran goes that won’t solve the underlying issue of subjugated populations, probably Sunni extremists would just take over in the vacuum. There were resistance organizations long before Iran was funding them.

Also Iran going down could mean millions of civilians dying.

Edited December 10 by Raze

[Raze]

What I think will happen is Iran will feel its proxies are too weakened and this will cause it to be targeted next, so they’ll develop nuclear weapons to try and stay standing like North Korea has. This will cause the Sunni states that view Iran as a threat to develop their own nuclear weapons. At the same time the state structure of the Middle East is failing so Sunni extremists will stage revolts, probably many were radicalized by the Gaza onslaught, keep in mind many of the revolutions and major attacks like 9/11 or the Muslim brotherhood coups were headed by people who themselves said the oppression of Palestinians radicalized them, since the Palestinians have faced more brutality then ever before and it’s all on video this will increase.

At the same time Israel relies on US support both militarily and diplomatically, but polls find younger age groups are less pro Israel and more liberal in the US, so slowly over time that support will reduce. Israel however is becoming more right wing as secular Israelis are moving out and messianic Israelis who believe Israel must reconquer greater Israel to bring the messiah have a higher fertility rate. So they will keep being militarily aggressive but with declining US support have to rely on their nuclear weapons. Eventually there will probably be a regional war and Israel will use the Samson option.

[trenton]

@integration journey I recognize that you are frustrated by outsiders who don't understand your circumstances and situation. I have researched the Assad regime before and I needed a review to refresh my memory. I will try to understand your point of view.

the Syrian civil war was sparked by a combination of drought, economic collapse, and political oppression. Initially the pro democracy groups protested peacefully, but the Assad regime responded with brutal force which included chemical weapons, torture, and imprisonment which included children. Assad was willing to destroy his own country and people to maintain power even if it meant bombing hospitals and schools deliberately. He created a constant atmosphere of fear by recruiting secret police to pay on civilians who were opposed to his actions. In response to this brutal oppression, the Syrian rebels began to respond violently against the regime.

However, the western media is bombarding us complete bull crap constantly. The media is labeling all of the factions as Jihadists. This leads people on this forum to comparing your cause to Al-Qaeda. Some countries have labeled the Syrian rebels as terrorists, which oversimplified the goals, motives, and context behind this conflict. The rebels included military leaders who abandoned the Assad regime after seeing his oppression.

Your goal is not extremism like ISIS. Your goal was to establish basic human rights. You probably feel insulted by Americans brainwashed by simplistic media narratives which delegitimize your cause.

Am I understanding your perspective and your struggle?

[Scholar]

17 hours ago, integration journey said:

@PurpleTree if this isn’t the dark ages then I don’t know what is. This was litterly a slaughterhouse prison 

We have these all over the world, in every single western country.

[integration journey]

5 hours ago, trenton said:

@integration journey I recognize that you are frustrated by outsiders who don't understand your circumstances and situation. I have researched the Assad regime before and I needed a review to refresh my memory. I will try to understand your point of view.

the Syrian civil war was sparked by a combination of drought, economic collapse, and political oppression. Initially the pro democracy groups protested peacefully, but the Assad regime responded with brutal force which included chemical weapons, torture, and imprisonment which included children. Assad was willing to destroy his own country and people to maintain power even if it meant bombing hospitals and schools deliberately. He created a constant atmosphere of fear by recruiting secret police to pay on civilians who were opposed to his actions. In response to this brutal oppression, the Syrian rebels began to respond violently against the regime.

However, the western media is bombarding us complete bull crap constantly. The media is labeling all of the factions as Jihadists. This leads people on this forum to comparing your cause to Al-Qaeda. Some countries have labeled the Syrian rebels as terrorists, which oversimplified the goals, motives, and context behind this conflict. The rebels included military leaders who abandoned the Assad regime after seeing his oppression.

Your goal is not extremism like ISIS. Your goal was to establish basic human rights. You probably feel insulted by Americans brainwashed by simplistic media narratives which delegitimize your cause.

Am I understanding your perspective and your struggle?

Yes, I appreciate you🤍

[integration journey]

5 hours ago, Scholar said:

We have these all over the world, in every single western country.

Yeah let’s be so nonchalant about it.

[Lyubov]

12 hours ago, Scholar said:

We have these all over the world, in every single western country.

No we don’t. Such comparisons are ridiculous, “buh buh buh both sides.” We have for profit prisons and our own corrupt issues for sure, but to equate western prisons with concentration camps is ridiculous. 

Edited December 11 by Lyubov

[Mohammad]

18 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

That’s nice.

There are three main problems imo.

Resources.
 

Too many outside forces that have interests and strong militaries, connections, secret services. Turkey, US, Israel, Russia, Iran etc.(bad neighbourhood)

And Islam/Islamists.

(also tribalism)

Those things make it really hard to have a free democratic or progressive society.

That is completely true.

Any form of ruling system that would be established in Iran must have some degree of autocracy, that is how it works, not just because of the stuff that you mentioned, but also the psyche of the nation. Democracy is not for everyone, and this is not necessarily a bad thing. Democracy works for a society who have reached a certain degree of development, which not the case for Iran, at least not yet. So we need kind of an iron fist for now, but not idiots like mullahs.

 

13 hours ago, Raze said:

If Iran goes that won’t solve the underlying issue of subjugated populations, probably Sunni extremists would just take over in the vacuum. There were resistance organizations long before Iran was funding them.

Also Iran going down could mean millions of civilians dying.

I don't think that's the case. Sunni extremists have no base in Iran,

And no, Islamic republic going down does not mean millions dying, would probably bring about a better ruling party in Iran and that will benefit the hole middle east. Islamic republic have basically destroyed the lives of millions of Iranians already by helping their proxies in other countries. Iran has different political dynamics from arab countries, with a very different culture and population, but Islamic republic has made the country similar to other islamic states in the region. Go look at Iran 50 years ago, you will see what I am talking about. But as I said the most important thing is the difference between the population, difference between Iranian people and extremist groups n the region. Not the same at all, just in a same neighborhood.

13 hours ago, Raze said:

What I think will happen is Iran will feel its proxies are too weakened and this will cause it to be targeted next, so they’ll develop nuclear weapons to try and stay standing like North Korea has. This will cause the Sunni states that view Iran as a threat to develop their own nuclear weapons. At the same time the state structure of the Middle East is failing so Sunni extremists will stage revolts, probably many were radicalized by the Gaza onslaught, keep in mind many of the revolutions and major attacks like 9/11 or the Muslim brotherhood coups were headed by people who themselves said the oppression of Palestinians radicalized them, since the Palestinians have faced more brutality then ever before and it’s all on video this will increase.

At the same time Israel relies on US support both militarily and diplomatically, but polls find younger age groups are less pro Israel and more liberal in the US, so slowly over time that support will reduce. Israel however is becoming more right wing as secular Israelis are moving out and messianic Israelis who believe Israel must reconquer greater Israel to bring the messiah have a higher fertility rate. So they will keep being militarily aggressive but with declining US support have to rely on their nuclear weapons. Eventually there will probably be a regional war and Israel will use the Samson option.

Iran will never develop nuclear weapons. These are just news headlines. Even if they wanted to, they cannot. Mullahs are masters of deceit. They have many internal struggles, which are not talked about in the news, but if you live here you will see the signs everywhere. These idiots cannot even build a normal missile or gun without the help or russia or china. They will never get nuclear weapons, they know if the do so, they have just accelerated their own doom.

I think Israel, US and rich arabs have developed a plan for years to come. Which is smart. And I believe everything will turn out for the best. The government in Iran ill change, don't know when, but it will change. Hopefully for the better.