Breaking news: Syria has been liberated from Assad’s dictatorship

[Raze]

1 hour ago, integration journey said:

Syria was not a good place to live with Assad in charge. Millions fled, thousands died of his bombing, thousands in prison. Women and kids in prison. Fuck him 

That was during the civil war, prior to that the living standard was much better 

[Scholar]

47 minutes ago, gambler said:

As a middle eastern, I'm done with this secular farce. Secularism isn't going to save us.

What we need is decentralization of authority and power. We need economic prosperity. We need a Middle East free of bad actors, namely a certain blue and white country subjugating the natives because of muh book and muh ancestors from 2000 years before present. Free from America's no-skin-in-the-game foreign policy. Free from the west's cultural hegemony. You have your culture, let us have ours. These things are more important than setting up a constitution that no one will respect.

That's speculation. The path to prosperity and progress could have been more rapid under a transition from Assad to whoever would be his heir.

In general, regime changes like this don't simply improve the situation, because they decentralize power. Without strong institutions, decentralization of power will just lead to a conflict around who wants to be the ruler.

A state needs an absolute monopoly on power within it's own borders, that is the only way to ensure stability and the evolution of institutions. In europe this occured in a very long and bloody process.

[gambler]

48 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea because it’s much better with Russian, Saudi and Iranian, Turkish influence?

I mean in a perfect world there wouldn’t be any bad outside influence. But that’s seemingly just not realistic.

Hot take: Saudi Arabia aside. All those countries are infinitely better than American influence.
Neither of them have wronged Palestinians.
Neither of them have wronged Lebanon.
Neither of them have wronged Iraq.
Neither of them propelled the Arab spring that brought us a Syria with a million dead, thousands raped, hundred thousand imprisoned, and a government that Bibi just called terrorists.
If you remove American influence, the Russians and Iran would've put an end to the civil war extremely early.
I'm sorry but I don't believe it's worth it to sacrifice a million people's lives and millions more to suffer, just so you can free yourself from a dictator that BEFORE the war imprisoned ten thousand unlawfully and was a shitter when it came to providing economic prosperity.

Edited December 9, 2024 by gambler

[Raze]

Just now, gambler said:

Hot take: All those countries are infinitely better than American influence.
Neither of them have wronged Palestinians.
Neither of them have wronged Lebanon.
Neither of them propelled the Arab spring that brought us a Syria with a million dead, thousands raped, hundred thousand imprisoned, and a government that Bibi just called terrorists.
If you remove American influence, the Russians and Iran would've put an end to the civil war extremely early.
I'm sorry but I don't believe it's worth it to sacrifice a million people's lives and millions more to suffer, just so you can free yourself from a dictator that BEFORE the war imprisoned ten thousand unlawfully and was a shitter when it came to providing economic prosperity.

Russia wrecked Afghanistan and Syria from direct intervention, and Iran and Saudi Arabia supported different sides of wars in Syria and Yemen dramatically expanding them

[gambler]

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

Russia wrecked Afghanistan and Syria from direct intervention, and Iran and Saudi Arabia supported different sides of wars in Syria and Yemen dramatically expanding them

America wrecked Afghanistan too.
Without American influence, the civil war would've ended early in Syria.
Also America allowed Saudi Arabia to carept bomb Yemen.

Edited December 9, 2024 by gambler

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, gambler said:

I'm sorry

Ok 👌 

But you don’t need to be sorry. It’s just your opinion. 

[zazen]

Israel’s secured its position of dominance whilst distracted, in a day. With Israel on one side and US still occupying the other, they can literally sandwich the country and encroach on it slowly if chaotic in-fighting allows them to.

If the media machine so wills it they could overnight justify this encroachment to “stabilise” the country. The pretext is already set waiting to be utilised - the “Al Qaeda origins” of the leadership deeming them villains destabilising the country and needing an American helping hand in bringing order.

Not that they will do this or have the appetite for it, but it’s an option on the table whereas before it wasn’t. This would allow them to carve up plenty of land.

 

Multiple things can be true at the same time. That Assad was a brutal dictator. That Syrians have agency and that it’s popular opinion to have Assad overthrown. And that foreign powers meddled greatly in Syria’s affairs for their own ends.

I read an interesting analogy for the situation: The West baked the cake, the rebels blew out the candles.

Edited December 9, 2024 by zazen

[integration journey]

[gambler]

34 minutes ago, Scholar said:

That's speculation. The path to prosperity and progress could have been more rapid under a transition from Assad to whoever would be his heir.

In general, regime changes like this don't simply improve the situation, because they decentralize power. Without strong institutions, decentralization of power will just lead to a conflict around who wants to be the ruler.

A state needs an absolute monopoly on power within it's own borders, that is the only way to ensure stability and the evolution of institutions. In europe this occured in a very long and bloody process.

I agree with everything you wrote.

To clarify, what I meant by decentralization of authority and power is nested within the centralization of what you described. So not having a regime that holds power for decades straight. But a power structure where newly elected leaders from an actual pool of candidates can be brought in. Where changes that can happen at the provincial and other levels isn't bottle necked because of centralization of the state's power on all affairs.

Edited December 9, 2024 by gambler

[Inliytened1]

On 12/7/2024 at 11:12 PM, Leo Gura said:

But what comes next?

Probably to blame Israel.

@zazen and as i read further, as i predicted, here it comes.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Inliytened1

[gambler]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Probably to blame Israel.

@zazen and as i read further, as i predicted, here it comes.

Tough for you. Israel is a part of the equation and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, gambler said:

Tough for you. Israel is a part of the equation and there's nothing you can do about it.

As if it's some Master plan.  Israel is just defending it's own.  Albeit sometimes too much.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Inliytened1

[gambler]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

As if it's some Master plan.  Israel is just defending it's own.

Why would America want the Shia crescent to fall if not to safeguard Israel's interest? This is the primary priority.

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, gambler said:

Why would America want the Shia crescent to fall if not to safeguard Israel's interest? This is the primary priority.

Want is the keyword.   If they're just going to give it to them don't act like Israel orchestrated it.  Yeah they're in a better position now but it wasn't something they orchestrated so let us be clear.  To say otherwise implies some type of conspiracy theory.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Inliytened1

[PurpleTree]

If Islamists take over Syria they will probably bring it back to the middle (or dark) ages. No science. No progress.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

 

My Grandfather, on the Russian side of my family, actually worked in Syria as an aircraft engineer under the presidency of Hafez Al-Assad.

The Soviet Union and Ba’athist Syria were huge allies and so the Soviet Union actually stationed engineers in Syria.

He would be devastated by these recent developments. He loved Palmyra (city in Syria), worked in Homs (another city), and had huge respect for the Assad family. 

[gambler]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

If Islamists take over Syria they will probably bring it back to the middle (or dark) ages. No science. No progress.

Even if it remains secular, I doubt there'd be any science or REAL progress.
Like becoming a formidable first world nation that can give Israel a slap on the wrist for mistreating their poor brethren in Palestine.
It'd just be another Egypt. Another Jordan. Another Lebanon.
Poor and underwhelmingly mediocre.
Twerking for America and Israel while they don't give two shits about the dignity of people like them.

[PurpleTree]

11 minutes ago, gambler said:

Even if it remains secular, I doubt there'd be any science or REAL progress.
Like becoming a formidable first world nation that can give Israel a slap on the wrist for mistreating their poor brethren in Palestine.
It'd just be another Egypt. Another Jordan. Another Lebanon.
Poor and underwhelmingly mediocre.
Twerking for America and Israel while they don't give two shits about the dignity of people like them.

Yea Islam seemingly really holds countries back and makes them easier to divide. Turkey is doing alright with science and tech it seems.

[Raze]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea Islam seemingly really holds countries back and makes them easier to divide. Turkey is doing alright with science and tech it seems.

Islam and Islamists are not the same, Islamic countries at one point had a lot of scientific development during the golden age.

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

Islam and Islamists are not the same, Islamic countries at one point had a lot of scientific development during the golden age.

Yea but i’m talking about in the last 150 yrs.

The golden age of Islam is over 800 yrs ago.

Yea Egypt was really developed bro. Yea 3000 yrs ago 🥲

Edited December 9, 2024 by PurpleTree