How do you contemplate on psychedelics?

[What Am I]

@Tristan12 Gotcha. Your situation may be beyond my abilities to give helpful, applicable advice. I think you're correct to practice extreme caution if your mental health is generally precarious.

If you do pick up some DMT in its pure form, it could be nice to use pharmahuasca. Just make sure you keep the doses low and only inch higher as you feel comfortable. Here's a thread that goes into some detail. Feel free to ask any questions if it's unclear.

 

[Tristan12]

@What Am I Thanks for the info

[RendHeaven]

Contemplation comes so naturally for me that it has never occurred to me "how" to do so.

In fact, I'm always shocked and dumbfounded time and time again when my "normie" friends take something like LSD and merely report "cool colors and moving objects" where I would draw hyper-dimensional interconnections on half the dose
(which I fondly call "the webs," i.e. the beholding of consciousness by consciousness, admiring the precise intelligence of its current form, recognizing that there is no difference between what is and what could be, but seeing how and why it must be this way)

3 hours ago, Tristan12 said:

@What Am I yeah. I have a ton of emotional pain stored within me, I've been suffering with extreme mental health issues for years, and I'm finally starting to use psychedelics to try and heal them. Because of that, my ego is very fragile, fearful and attached, and so I'm trying to be very cautious with psychedelics as to not terrify and traumatize myself even more, because I know that could easily happen with my condition.

I got back from an ayahuasca retreat almost a month ago, and I did the natural version of 5-meo-dmt there, which I enjoyed. Because of that I was comfortable trying the synthetic version, but the synthetic version feels stronger, and I feel like I could easily be pushed towards ego death and get traumatized if I take too much, so I stick with very small doses, and I'm going to do the same with malt.

I tried mescaline recently and I absolutely loved it, it feels perfect for me, but now the problem i'm facing is that all the healing i've been getting doesn't last. I did 5 weeks of ayahausca (16 ceremonies + 6 Bufo), left totally transformed, then a few days later I was back to my normal self. The mescaline trip I did about a week ago also helped me a ton, but two days later I was back to how I was before.

I think there is a part of me that is resisting the integration, that doesn't want to heal for some reason. I think doing parts work would be a good idea, so i'm going to work on doing that, but I was hoping I could also get some insight into what is causing this from psychedelics. I will be getting mushrooms and DMT next week so I've been thinking of working with small doses of those, but I am a little nervous to do so considering that they are not as gentle.

But I'd appreciate people's advice here both on how to contemplate on psychedelics, and also with what psychedelics they suggest for me given my situation.

This agenda to "heal" most certainly blocks pure contemplation. You're unable to admire the selfless uselessness of beings and objects unrelated to your healing. You also don't dare to dive into the abyss beyond death, the formless Origin where sheer, blinding, majesty reigns and no humans are allowed to exist.

I don't have any answers for you, whatever works for you, you must figure out for yourself. However it may be worth it to trip without any agenda at all. Pretend for a second that you have nothing to heal, and become curious and interested in what lies beyond. Consciousness responds to desire. If your contemplation attempts are fruitless, it's likely a lack of desire.

As for the substance, I would recommend a medium-high dose of MALT. It will absolutely obliterate you, but that is precisely the love you crave. We spend our whole lives running from the one thing we want more than anything. We're so silly for that.

[Tristan12]

@RendHeaven I don't think going deep into spirituality or ego-death would be a good idea for me right now. I did 5-MeO-DMT today, and I always do a very light dose (I have a vape pen and I only do half of one pull). I'm okay with that amount, but there is still resistance at times, and sometimes when I get anxious, I get to the point where no matter how much I tell myself to surrender or let go, it won't happen, because my ego is very afraid and it's resisting at too deep of a level for my words or suggestions to make any difference. I'm fine with these low doses because the substance doesn't push me too hard, so it doesn't turn into a bad trip, it's just a bit uncomfortable at times, but I think being forced into an ego death would traumatize me.

The main questions I have about contemplation on psychedelics is how do you think clearly when you are on a substance, and is it even a good idea to intentionally be thinking, because isn't it better to surrender and let go? It's not even that my contemplation attempts are fruitless, it's that it doesn't feel natural or right to be contemplating (I feel like my thoughts pull me away from the trip), so I just stop doing it, and I'm wondering if there is a certain way to contemplate on psychedelics?

I do think it is probably the substance, I think I should try it on something like mescaline or mushrooms, but still, it feels weird to intentionally be thinking on a trip when I've always heard that you're supposed to calm your thoughts and surrender to the experience

[RendHeaven]

5 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

@RendHeaven I don't think going deep into spirituality or ego-death would be a good idea for me right now.

Understandable

11 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

I always do a very light dose (I have a vape pen and I only do half of one pull). I'm okay with that amount, but there is still resistance at times, and sometimes when I get anxious, I get to the point where no matter how much I tell myself to surrender or let go, it won't happen, because my ego is very afraid and it's resisting at too deep of a level for my words or suggestions to make any difference. I'm fine with these low doses because the substance doesn't push me too hard, so it doesn't turn into a bad trip, it's just a bit uncomfortable at times, but I think being forced into an ego death would traumatize me.

Just remember that there is no real healing without a real threat to your ego.

12 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

The main questions I have about contemplation on psychedelics is how do you think clearly when you are on a substance,

What stops you from thinking clearly? It's really no different than everyday thinking IMO.

For example I can think about my mom on MALT just as well as I can think about her right now in a "sober waking state."

The only difference is that on MALT the ramifications are supercharged. "Mom" has infinitely more unreality and interconnections on MALT, but the core thought is the same.

26 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

and is it even a good idea to intentionally be thinking

If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't. No good or bad

27 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

because isn't it better to surrender and let go?

Not mutually exclusive. I love to think and surrender/let go at the same time

27 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

it's that it doesn't feel natural or right to be contemplating (I feel like my thoughts pull me away from the trip),

Don't force it. The juiciest contemplations are instant and effortless. They will come spontaneously with more consciousness and less agenda. i.e. up your dose and stop trying to heal. But if you're not willing to do that, then just don't worry about "contemplation"

32 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

it feels weird to intentionally be thinking on a trip when I've always heard that you're supposed to calm your thoughts and surrender to the experience

they say that because most humans have erratic, fear-based thoughts. So it's better to just dissolve those and chill.

But once you are advanced, there are higher-order thoughts you could have. But again, don't worry about that for now

[Jodistrict]

I have found cannabis to be the best for contemplation.  

[MaDoubt]

On 12/8/2024 at 3:09 AM, Tristan12 said:

@What Am I yeah. I have a ton of emotional pain stored within me, I've been suffering with extreme mental health issues for years, and I'm finally starting to use psychedelics to try and heal them. Because of that, my ego is very fragile, fearful and attached, and so I'm trying to be very cautious with psychedelics as to not terrify and traumatize myself even more, because I know that could easily happen with my condition.

I got back from an ayahuasca retreat almost a month ago, and I did the natural version of 5-meo-dmt there, which I enjoyed. Because of that I was comfortable trying the synthetic version, but the synthetic version feels stronger, and I feel like I could easily be pushed towards ego death and get traumatized if I take too much, so I stick with very small doses, and I'm going to do the same with malt.

I tried mescaline recently and I absolutely loved it, it feels perfect for me, but now the problem i'm facing is that all the healing i've been getting doesn't last. I did 5 weeks of ayahausca (16 ceremonies + 6 Bufo), left totally transformed, then a few days later I was back to my normal self. The mescaline trip I did about a week ago also helped me a ton, but two days later I was back to how I was before.

I think there is a part of me that is resisting the integration, that doesn't want to heal for some reason. I think doing parts work would be a good idea, so i'm going to work on doing that, but I was hoping I could also get some insight into what is causing this from psychedelics. I will be getting mushrooms and DMT next week so I've been thinking of working with small doses of those, but I am a little nervous to do so considering that they are not as gentle.

But I'd appreciate people's advice here both on how to contemplate on psychedelics, and also with what psychedelics they suggest for me given my situation.

 

What about giving Iboga a try? It seems to have the biggest potential of them all to release traumas and deep-rooted emotional pain and not just temporary. That's why it heals addictions in one go as all addictions are trauma based, the drug is just a cover up for the pain.

You can also microdose Iboga to get a feel (which is not actually microdosing as you can clearly feel it, but mini-dosing). Some people report good results with microdosing it.

Ma

[Tristan12]

@MaDoubt Potentially, but the fact that I've spent so much time with ayahuasca (known for being one of the best healing psychedelics out there) and I'm still not any better, it makes me hesitant to spend more time and money on other retreats. But I'll keep iboga in mind, thanks

[Tristan12]

@RendHeaven All of that is helpful, thanks

[MaDoubt]

On 12/10/2024 at 2:30 AM, Tristan12 said:

@MaDoubt Potentially, but the fact that I've spent so much time with ayahuasca (known for being one of the best healing psychedelics out there) and I'm still not any better, it makes me hesitant to spend more time and money on other retreats. But I'll keep iboga in mind, thanks

You can try Iboga minidosing at home (for flood doses this is not really recommended if you never worked with Iboga).

Ma