On power & success

[LordFall]

Reading this post by brother @Leo Gura I somewhat agree but doesn't the overall sentiment fall into being an epistemic blunder? 

https://www.actualized.org/insights/the-corruption-of-success

You talked about gurus blissing out in a cave as being delusional because they don't impact humanity. Isn't that what anybody that doesn't have success and more importantly than that pure power falling into that same trap?

I would define power as having control and influence over reality and if you don't do that then aren't any theories of self-development just that; theories?

What is true is truth and if you can't affect reality with your knowledge than it must be false by definition. Not saying by default powerful people are not corrupt but also hippies meditating and taking psychedelics thinking they're better than them are also corrupt.

I think it needs to be fleshed out more. A great example is politicians. However corrupt they are they are honestly putting themselves on the line to rule and affect society. And they are at least somewhat selfless because of that. 

If ideas cannot affect society then they are by definition weak and lack power and I would argue are also bathed in falsehood since they cannot interact with reality and only live in the mind. 

Edited December 6 by LordFall

[Princess Arabia]

I agree with Leo's post Totally agree. Not from an outside in perspective but more inside out. What he outlined is pretty much how the ego got corrupted and misled. The more it got what it wanted, the more delusional it got. The more it saw that it was right about something, the more it got strengthened. The more it lived in society amongst other egos that swore they were in control and  saw how other's were living and became comparative, the more competitive it became at strengthening itself. 

Point is, this is all contagious stuff and the more we get what we want, is the more we want, and the more we want, is the more corrupt we get and the more corrupt we get is the more delusional we become, and the more delusional we become is the further away it takes us from the truth, and the cycle then turns backwards and spawns into a loop where the more disconnected from truth you are, us the more you want - repeat the cycle I just outlined. It starts to repeat itself and that's why the rich wants to get richer and greed is prevalent. It's a never-ending cycle. 

P.S. I'm not referring to people who strictly use their success for the good of humanity and who got lost in the endless cycle. There are successful people, who aren't attached to their success and who understands it's not who they are and are living in truth. Those are far and wide between, though. 

 

Edited December 6 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, LordFall said:

A great example is politicians. However corrupt they are they are honestly putting themselves on the line to rule and affect society. And they are at least somewhat selfless because of that.

This is so far from the truth, I'm surprised at how you've deceived yourself into believing this. Selfless? This is how they get delusional followers because they have managed to trick the public into them believing they have the public's best interest in mind. Not all, but most. The bad outweighs the good so the good gets eaten alive. 

"Rule and affect society" can be a powerful tool for the ego to use to unknowingly corrupt itself some more.

Edited December 6 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, LordFall said:

What is true is truth and if you can't affect reality with your knowledge than it must be false by definition.

This statement is false by interpretation. We can be effective and change the trajectory of society by just being at home. As long as we're relating to other people, we are affecting humanity in one way or another. It's energetic. People just by being on this forum alone, are changing lives, even by being in a hospital bed. The limited mind can't see past it's limitations, but Reality isn't separate, and everything is in relation to something else. Also ideas can be communicated telepathically and can be effective or affect the world just by appearing in the mind of another.

[Razard86]

The only corruption is thinking that accomplishments like money and social status equals your worth. This is the biggest issue in the human world and is the reason God as all of these humans struggles to feel like it belongs. The secret why you matter? Cause you are the only one here. Existence, Life, is a miracle which means you are a miracle. The path to a healthy mindset is to realize that you are so valuable that nothing you do can add to your value because your value is Infinity. Understanding this and accepting this isn't ego, what is ego is believing that your value is more important than some part of creation.

Competition inherently produces ego which is why human society is an ego creation machine.

[LifeEnjoyer]

23 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The only corruption is thinking that accomplishments like money and social status equals your worth. This is the biggest issue in the human world and is the reason God as all of these humans struggles to feel like it belongs. The secret why you matter? Cause you are the only one here. Existence, Life, is a miracle which means you are a miracle. The path to a healthy mindset is to realize that you are so valuable that nothing you do can add to your value because your value is Infinity. Understanding this and accepting this isn't ego, what is ego is believing that your value is more important than some part of creation.

Competition inherently produces ego which is why human society is an ego creation machine.

This comment is so powerful it gave me another awakening.

[Princess Arabia]

42 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The only corruption is thinking that accomplishments like money and social status equals your worth. This is the biggest issue in the human world and is the reason God as all of these humans struggles to feel like it belongs. The secret why you matter? Cause you are the only one here. Existence, Life, is a miracle which means you are a miracle. The path to a healthy mindset is to realize that you are so valuable that nothing you do can add to your value because your value is Infinity. Understanding this and accepting this isn't ego, what is ego is believing that your value is more important than some part of creation.

Competition inherently produces ego which is why human society is an ego creation machine.

Well said. So powerful. 

[EternalForest]

You're right in the sense that famous and highly successful people have to go through so many ego-challenging rejections and failures, and put in so much hard work, that by the end they are probably more "selfless" in terms of how they view the relationship between themselves and their work. In a way, their work is bigger than themselves, and they can see the impact it has on all their followers. They were willing to sacrifice comfort and pleasure to get where they are. Leo is also correct however, that once they're there, that success will be guarded with their life and anything that threatens it will be avoided, even the truth.

[Razard86]

2 minutes ago, EternalForest said:

You're right in the sense that famous and highly successful people have to go through so many ego-challenging rejections and failures, and put in so much hard work, that by the end they are probably more "selfless" in terms of how they view the relationship between themselves and their work. In a way, their work is bigger than themselves, and they can see the impact it has on all their followers. They were willing to sacrifice comfort and pleasure to get where they are. Leo is also correct however, that once they're there, that success will be guarded with their life and anything that threatens it will be avoided, even the truth.

You are correct, but the funniest thing and I am telling you when you find this out you will laugh. Those people are literally YOU living another life. So the absolute truth is whatever they do or anybody does for that matter is exactly what you would do if you were them. As humans the only separation is the emotional interpretation of our life story we are always carrying which is the birth of our mindset, and the experience of our physical body. This is the birth of the I am a person. This person is only asleep as different when they are disconnected from heart, from their love for themselves and all of creation.

The desire for all of creation to thrive, is the love that unites us all.

[ryoko]

@LordFall

Corruption is simply, deviation from Truth. 

Yogis attaining bliss (wherever), will have effects on the humanity, whether you like it or not. Every single thing, have an effect. And I'd rather not spoil it for you. 

And it's not "gurus blissing out in a cave". 

----

Truth is not what you see, out there in the world. Truth is

---

It's not that ideas "cannot" have an effect, it's that ideas which doesn't effect humanity yet. Those are bathed in vision, not falsehood. You need to think long term, thousands of Centuries years into the future. 

[LordFall]

On 12/6/2024 at 3:49 PM, Princess Arabia said:

This statement is false by interpretation. We can be effective and change the trajectory of society by just being at home. As long as we're relating to other people, we are affecting humanity in one way or another. It's energetic. People just by being on this forum alone, are changing lives, even by being in a hospital bed. The limited mind can't see past it's limitations, but Reality isn't separate, and everything is in relation to something else. Also ideas can be communicated telepathically and can be effective or affect the world just by appearing in the mind of another.

How do you quantify that? People have different impact. Ants have impact on the world just a ridiculously tiny one. Same as your person being at home.

 

On 12/6/2024 at 3:44 PM, Princess Arabia said:

This is so far from the truth, I'm surprised at how you've deceived yourself into believing this. Selfless? This is how they get delusional followers because they have managed to trick the public into them believing they have the public's best interest in mind. Not all, but most. The bad outweighs the good so the good gets eaten alive. 

"Rule and affect society" can be a powerful tool for the ego to use to unknowingly corrupt itself some more.

Perhaps selfless is not fully the right word but courageous certainly. It's easy to write poetic things on a forum or on social media but to take your ideas to the public and stand behind them in front of scrutiny and personal attack is a whole other thing. Even most people won't dare just post a video on their social media let alone run for office and try to change the world. 

 

On 12/6/2024 at 4:33 PM, Razard86 said:

The only corruption is thinking that accomplishments like money and social status equals your worth. This is the biggest issue in the human world and is the reason God as all of these humans struggles to feel like it belongs. The secret why you matter? Cause you are the only one here. Existence, Life, is a miracle which means you are a miracle. The path to a healthy mindset is to realize that you are so valuable that nothing you do can add to your value because your value is Infinity. Understanding this and accepting this isn't ego, what is ego is believing that your value is more important than some part of creation.

Competition inherently produces ego which is why human society is an ego creation machine.

Sure that's a nice theory but we all live in cities, countries and societies right? So we all matter sure existentially but a very limited amount of us actually have a significant impact on reality. 

 

On 12/6/2024 at 7:32 PM, ryoko said:

@LordFall

Corruption is simply, deviation from Truth. 

Yogis attaining bliss (wherever), will have effects on the humanity, whether you like it or not. Every single thing, have an effect. And I'd rather not spoil it for you. 

And it's not "gurus blissing out in a cave". 

----

Truth is not what you see, out there in the world. Truth is

---

It's not that ideas "cannot" have an effect, it's that ideas which doesn't effect humanity yet. Those are bathed in vision, not falsehood. You need to think long term, thousands of Centuries years into the future. 

I mean once again sure but the issue is in quantification. You can pretty simply measure the impact that reach that each individual human has on the greater whole and obviously some have lesser or bigger impact; for better or for worse. That's the quote that Leo had in one of his political videos" The danger of ignoring politics is you end up being governed by your lesser." 

[Princess Arabia]

57 minutes ago, LordFall said:

but a very limited amount of us actually have a significant impact on reality. 

The man cleaning the hotel toilet has a huge impact on society, it's just your limited mind can't see it. So does the liar, the thief and the drug addict. Your limited mind can't compute this. The Universe is already balanced and is a self-correcting code. What's happening is what "should" be happening or it would be some other way. All you're coming up with are stories and ideas and you have misunderstandings In your beliefs about what the world should be like. BTW, so does everyone else or most individuals. It's pretty obvious to me that this is the case, because life doesn't make mistakes and it is what it is. It really doesn't matter what I say either.

Edited December 9 by Princess Arabia

[hyruga]

The more you have success in something, the more confidence you get at it.

For example, the more sales you do or you visit a certain country before, the more confidence you will be in that area when someone asked you about them. So you can climb your way to the top or to success whatever you define it. 

However, things will come crashing down when you have illness or is about to die. All will die one day. There's no need to be egoistic and laugh at someone for not knowing this or not being able to close sales. Time is Life.

[ryoko]

8 hours ago, LordFall said:

we all matter sure existentially but a very limited amount of us actually have a significant impact on reality

There's a fundamental flaw in your argument. You define reality as what "you" experience everyday. You're very invested in the Materialistic paradigm, and you're locked there, not able to see beyond, not able to be a part of it yet. The whole reason why psychedelics have appeal is because of the materialistic society. The appeal for psychedelics itself is a strong stage orange bias. But I understand, you do need external help, and nothing to be ashamed of. Me personally, I don't use any substance to feel high or have awakenings. I do realize, if I am part of this "reality" you're in, I will also need some external help if I'm not insanely stubborn as I am right now.
 

8 hours ago, LordFall said:

I mean once again sure but the issue is in quantification. You can pretty simply measure the impact that reach that each individual human has on the greater whole and obviously some have lesser or bigger impact; for better or for worse

Yes, we agree on the first part, it's an issue of quantification. How do you quantify? The money they accumulated? Fine, the wealth accumulation is one way to measure impact, but wealth itself is a false concept. Wealth is not even a equal across all over the world, meaning, having $100/month and a home, you're poor in America, but in a tropical region, it's more than enough to lead a luxurious life. See what I mean?
 

Whether you like it or not, everyone and everything have the "same" impact, you just don't see it yet. That's the whole thing about realizing oneness. And one beautiful thing about this is, you can't change it no matter what you do.

 

8 hours ago, LordFall said:

The danger of ignoring politics is you end up being governed by your lesser

You're always free, free to rebel. It's just a matter of your temperament. And the statement itself is false, if you think you're being governed, then that's exactly what's happening, because you so desperately want your "reality" to be so. Have it your way.

Edited December 9 by ryoko

[LordFall]

19 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

The man cleaning the hotel toilet has a huge impact on society, it's just your limited mind can't see it. So does the liar, the thief and the drug addict. Your limited mind can't compute this. The Universe is already balanced and is a self-correcting code. What's happening is what "should" be happening or it would be some other way. All you're coming up with are stories and ideas and you have misunderstandings In your beliefs about what the world should be like. BTW, so does everyone else or most individuals.

He does not have a huge impact on society. He keeps the toilets of one hotel in one city clean. And not by himself usually these housekeeping teams have 5-20 people so he can't do that limited job by himself. He has a certain quantifiable impact just like every other human being does. 

I don't understand your point, you're literally talking about being powerness to the changes in the universe. The universe is a certain way and changes daily. You can impact and affect that and people do so in different ways. That's what power is. 

 

@ryoko I don't understand your points, can you simplify it? You are indeed correct that money is generally the best form of quantification but is an incomplete one. Globalization is evening out economics accross the globe though so it's getting closer to it. 

[Princess Arabia]

24 minutes ago, LordFall said:

He does not have a huge impact on society. He keeps the toilets of one hotel in one city clean. And not by himself usually these housekeeping teams have 5-20 people so he can't do that limited job by himself. He has a certain quantifiable impact just like every other human being does. 

The people that do the "dirty work" or "cheap labor" are saving time and energy for the ones who are making a direct big impact to do their work without having to worry about the small details. If there was no one to clean the White House toilet and do the house work and the President had to do that work all by himself, do you think he'd have the time to run the country and be impactful to millions? That one small team of service workers cleaning and scrubbing etc are indirectly  impacting millions of lives just by being service workers. Please try to see beyond what i'm referring to as I could use numerous other examples in this case.

I'll use another. AI has the potential of saving lots of time, money and resources. The people that worked hard on building that type of technology probably used the services of a janitor or a deliveryman or some type of low income servicer to aid in their journey of building such a huge technology. If it weren't for the help of the behind the scenes workers that you know nothing about and were probably low wage AI would probably still be in the making. 

Bottomline is the people in the forefront are using the services of the people in the backend to advance and make huge impacts and if it weren't for the low ended people it wouldn't have been possible or would delay the process tremendously. Those factory workers in Indonesia and China are having huge impacts in the world behind the scenes - I don't have to explain to you how as you can use the same explanation that I used above. Never underestimate the impact everyone is making to make this world go round and not collapse. Everyone is playing their part in some way or another, you're just noticing the millionaires and the people in the limelight. 

 

[ryoko]

@LordFall you got me all wrong buddy. I was saying money is a very inefficient way to quantify. We're better off avoiding money all together from the equation. And globalisation is a joke, it's against the very root of money. It won't happen unless money disappears. 

And I can't simplify my points any further. I have butchered it enough already to explain it to you, in the second post. On the first, I was deliberate on not spoiling it. 

Edited December 10 by ryoko

[LordFall]

On 12/9/2024 at 3:39 PM, Princess Arabia said:

The people that do the "dirty work" or "cheap labor" are saving time and energy for the ones who are making a direct big impact to do their work without having to worry about the small details. If there was no one to clean the White House toilet and do the house work and the President had to do that work all by himself, do you think he'd have the time to run the country and be impactful to millions? That one small team of service workers cleaning and scrubbing etc are indirectly  impacting millions of lives just by being service workers. Please try to see beyond what i'm referring to as I could use numerous other examples in this case.

I'll use another. AI has the potential of saving lots of time, money and resources. The people that worked hard on building that type of technology probably used the services of a janitor or a deliveryman or some type of low income servicer to aid in their journey of building such a huge technology. If it weren't for the help of the behind the scenes workers that you know nothing about and were probably low wage AI would probably still be in the making. 

Bottomline is the people in the forefront are using the services of the people in the backend to advance and make huge impacts and if it weren't for the low ended people it wouldn't have been possible or would delay the process tremendously. Those factory workers in Indonesia and China are having huge impacts in the world behind the scenes - I don't have to explain to you how as you can use the same explanation that I used above. Never underestimate the impact everyone is making to make this world go round and not collapse. Everyone is playing their part in some way or another, you're just noticing the millionaires and the people in the limelight. 

 

That's a good point. I don't understand fundamentally your point though. You're saying everyone has the same impact or that everyone has an impact or something else? Or just that one human isn't more valuable than another type thing? 

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, LordFall said:

That's a good point. I don't understand fundamentally your point though. You're saying everyone has the same impact or that everyone has an impact or something else? Or just that one human isn't more valuable than another type thing? 

Everyone has an impact. How big or small is relative. The person that seems to have a big impact couldn't have done it without the lesser impact, so that's why it's relative and depending on how you look at it. Leo couldn't have done this without us, and Mother Theresa couldn't have been a humanitarian without the appearance of the "lesser humans". The humans that we deem valuable are nothing without the steps that brought them there and included in those steps are people of a seemingly lesser value and so everyone in some way shape or form is allowing for the whole to be the whole. You have conjured up in your mind, what is more valuable and that actually means nothing in the big scheme of things because nothing stands alone. Hope we have made this clear this time. Lol Much Love.

[ryoko]

Everyone having the same impact/same intensity of life experience, these are things you realise if you put in the work.

This is why, you are "the same" as anyone else. There's a oneness, a sort of equality and it's absolute. No matter how stark a difference may be, it's pointless. Also, you'll be equal to everyone no matter how much you change/grow. This is where compassion arises from.

Spirituality is not about going into a cave to isolate yourself, as people often mistake. If a monk is staying in a cave after realising this, it's precisely because he knows "his" impact clearly. And that impact is the exact same as any other person. No one human is one up than another. Deviation from these inadvertently harms others in the process. 

Just think about this in terms of your life cycle. Do you personally care about what happens a thousand years later? Not unless your sense of time is non linear, or you've experienced certain things. Same goes with impact, you've no clue what happens after you're dead, or what is the karmic imprint of your current actions(what's making your current actions possible). 

People often act with no regard for future generations and other humans in the present, because unconsciously they don't care if the world ends after they're dead. World stagnating with low conscious values and agendas is none of their concern if they get to accumulate more "from" others. And this sure isn't a way to measure impact. And I'd gladly call this a failure. 😂

 

P.S - Whether or not you can afford this truth is an entirely different story. Realising these truths doesn't help you get filthy rich in the world. That becomes a lot harder if you haven't already built up your career from the same higher values. Yeah basically, you deliberately do more, give more to the world, and get less because the world is skewed. This is why most people stay Orange primarily. They can't afford the extra work. 

Edited December 12 by ryoko