CEO of United Health gunned down

[Hardkill]

15 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

TRT?

 

15 hours ago, What Am I said:

Muscle can come and go pretty quickly depending on his current routine and/or testosterone injections.

That being said, who could say for sure whether it's actually the same guy.

I just found out that it was because his body has been out of commission for weightlifting. He has been suffering from very serious back problems including having had back surgery and frequent moments of moderate to severe back-related pain.

[What Am I]

7 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

I just found out that it was because his body has been out of commission for weightlifting. He has been suffering from very serious back problems including having had back surgery and frequent moments of moderate to severe back-related pain.

Yeah, that certainly makes sense. People aren't prone to heavy weight lifting in the midst of severe back issues. That one pic where he was larger is probably from further in the past.

Either that or it's not the same guy, lol.

Edited December 10 by What Am I

[Hardkill]

4 minutes ago, What Am I said:

Yeah, that certainly makes sense. People aren't prone to heavy weight lifting in the midst of severe back issues. That one pic when he was larger is probably from further in the past.

Either that or it's not the same guy, lol.

I mean, there have been some athletes or bodybuilders who have had to temporarily stop lifting heavy and intense for several months from back-related injuries, but even most of them have been able to get back to lifting as heavy and intense as they did before because their back injury was only temporary in the grand scheme of things. 

I think Luigi's back pain was quite chronic and intense and had been lasting for years if I am not mistaken.

Edited December 10 by Hardkill

[Something Funny]

3 hours ago, Raze said:

But then it will be outcompeted by the companies that do maximize profit 

Outcompeted in what? Profits?

If by outcompeted you mean losing business and going bankrupt than why would that be the case? 

If united health offered the best insurance for its money and wasn't actively trying to screw people out of coverage as opposed to milking people for every last penny, it would outcompete everyone else and only get more customers. Sure, shareholders and CEOs wouldn't be earning as much, but they would totally be doing better as a company.

[Something Funny]

@Raze imagine if they started offering health insurance literally at a cost of running business. Charging just enough to cover the expenses and pay everyone a decent salary. Literally all of America would switch to them, purely from the market domination perspective - they would outcompete everyone else.

But that won't happen because shareholders and CEOs need their billions.

[Spiral Wizard]

4 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

His manifesto:

Source? 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

26 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Source? 

https://defenderofbasic.github.io/luigi-mangione-storyline/manifesto.html

[Basman]

8 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

Looking at this from outside the US, it seems that this is a cathartic response coming from masses of people who have been fcked over by the insurance companies. It's probably very hard for anyone (including me) to fully relate who hasn't been in that situation themselves. 

Also, I think people are surprised and energized by recognizing how little they care about the death of a health insurance CEO. Maybe there is a conscious or unconscious recognition of the underlying systemic violence that has been killing people and causing suffering to countless people in the name of profits and growth.

In that context, if we recognize that systemic forms of violence do exist, they usually go under the radar, and that there are people who are responsible for such violence, then it is more understandable that people would have this kind of reaction. In 100-200 years, if the US healthcare system develops, this act might just seem ethically equivalent to someone killing a slave owner in the 1800's . 

If that systemic violence truly is so widespread and the rule of law is not capable of recognizing that form of violence and bringing justice, then this is what can happen, as the frustration brews enough. People will resort to beheadings and mass killing if necessary to bring a sense of justice, but it is ugly and likely no good changes will come quickly. It's more about a release of emotions and recognition of injustices, so maybe that can fuel some political changes in the long run. 

Personally, I have no strong feelings about this. The death of a CEO holds no special significance in my heart compared to anyone else who is murdered or killed any day of the week around the globe. But I also won't celebrate or rejoice in this, maybe because I haven't personally experienced the injustice of the US healthcare system. 

 

It think this is a really fair assessment of the situation.

For there to really be any change there will have to be a change in how the governments runs society. Hopefully this is a wake-up call. The US is quiet a barbaric country for a first world nation in a lot of ways in my opinion.

[Basman]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Oh please. Assasinating a CEO is not a just cause.

No, you are probably right. Mario seemed to be lashing out bit like a school shooter would, "burning the village for warmth" type shit. And the killing isn't likely to change the system, so its effectively wasteful unlike a just war.

[kamwalker]

5 hours ago, What Am I said:

By definition, murder is the unjust killing of one person by another. The word you're probably looking for is "killing."

 

Quote

In your mind you think I'm trying to come across as some enlightened being. I don't even know what that has to do with an opinion. Legitimate self-defense is not murder and I wasn't referring to the death penalty. You have used arguable explanations of murder to come at me to justify your disagreement and for your rebuttal. In the case of what was shown here in this video of the man being shot from behind, it is obviously murder and need not be disputed as such. I never said there is no just cause for what may or not be interpreted as murder. In the case of self-defense and the death penalty and casualties of war, these cases are arguable as to whether they are murder or not. Shooting someone from behind in cold blood is murder and not only murder, but cold blooded murder. I don't care what the person did or even if it was me that committed the act, it is still fucking murder and and has no justifiable cause except in one's own mind and to suit their own agenda and biases. I can be the same way with myself and say I had no justifiable cause to shoot that man, because even if I don't like the health care policies murder is not the answer and I was being just as evil, if not even worse by taking the life of another and I would go do my time. 

It really is semantics because if you take the definition of murder as killing unjustly or without reason then one can always find a reason to justify it based on their set of beliefs. And depending on the context you will find that many people will be OK with murder. A person who just raped a child and proceeds to walk away and gets gunned down by someone who saw it happen would garner a lot of sympathy in the public eye and I wager would not want them prosecuted. I'm not here to debate what is worse, a healthcare CEO getting rich off killing people vs some other evil act, but the point is that everyone has a tipping point. It's easy to sit here and try to straddle the line during internet post discussions because it makes you come across as less biased (when in reality all humans are biased no matter how hard you try), but when shit hits the fan and one of these situations applies to your life I guarantee every single one of you will be a lot less confident with your declarations.

[Princess Arabia]

23 minutes ago, kamwalker said:

 

It really is semantics because if you take the definition of murder as killing unjustly or without reason then one can always find a reason to justify it based on their set of beliefs. And depending on the context you will find that many people will be OK with murder. A person who just raped a child and proceeds to walk away and gets gunned down by someone who saw it happen would garner a lot of sympathy in the public eye and I wager would not want them prosecuted. I'm not here to debate what is worse, a healthcare CEO getting rich off killing people vs some other evil act, but the point is that everyone has a tipping point. It's easy to sit here and try to straddle the line during internet post discussions because it makes you come across as less biased (when in reality all humans are biased no matter how hard you try), but when shit hits the fan and one of these situations applies to your life I guarantee every single one of you will be a lot less confident with your declarations.

Just because I said there's no just cause for murder, doesn't mean I probably wouldn't go murder someone that raped my baby girl. You have put words into my mouth this whole time and keep telling me what you think I'm saying about myself. If i went and murdered someone for any reason, I would not tell myself it was for a just cause. I would say it was wrong and go suffer the consequences. I never said I had no biases, YOU SAID IT MAKES ME COME OFF AS ONE WITHOUT BIASES. You are totally seeing what I said in your own eyes and interpreting it how you feel like. I have biases. That does not excuse murder, even if it's my own child. You have built stories upon stories from what I said initially and now in your mind you have ideas about me and what you THINK about me. Alli said was there is no just cause for murder. If my own child was raped and I went and murdered for it, I wouldn't be saying it was for a just cause, I would maybe try to fight it under an insanity plea, but i wouldn't tell myself the murder I committed was justified. 

[What Am I]

34 minutes ago, kamwalker said:

 

It really is semantics because if you take the definition of murder as killing unjustly or without reason then one can always find a reason to justify it based on their set of beliefs. And depending on the context you will find that many people will be OK with murder. A person who just raped a child and proceeds to walk away and gets gunned down by someone who saw it happen would garner a lot of sympathy in the public eye and I wager would not want them prosecuted. I'm not here to debate what is worse, a healthcare CEO getting rich off killing people vs some other evil act, but the point is that everyone has a tipping point. It's easy to sit here and try to straddle the line during internet post discussions because it makes you come across as less biased (when in reality all humans are biased no matter how hard you try), but when shit hits the fan and one of these situations applies to your life I guarantee every single one of you will be a lot less confident with your declarations.

It is semantics, but it still seems worth it to be aware of the precise definitions of the words in question. It's my understanding that the label of "murder" implies amorality by default. Killing, on the other hand, can be justified in many different scenarios.

[Raze]

apparently he had really bad back pain

perhaps he blamed insurance industry for trouble in getting treatment for it?

I wonder if they will give him the treatment in prison, then he might be better off there 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

What’s immensely sad about this situation is how much he had and how he threw it all away. He had a Masters and Bachelors both from UPenn at only 26 years old, a resume and a LinkedIn profile which screamed success.

Incredibly handsome and fit young guy, and he threw it all away.

For what? If you have such a problem with the American Healthcare system, move to a country with Universal healthcare, such as Italy. With his Ivy League degrees, this was certainly possible for him.

[Jodistrict]

Everyone has a killer underneath that will come out if you scratch the surface.  That’s why this case has given so many permission to vicariously participate in murder with their approval.  This is why Buddhist monks meditate day and night to uproot the three poisons.  Sorry, but psychedelics won't help us in doing the real work.  It takes great effort.

[ricachica]

19 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Everyone has a killer underneath that will come out if you scratch the surface.  That’s why this case has given so many permission to vicariously participate in murder with their approval.  This is why Buddhist monks meditate day and night to uproot the three poisons.  Sorry, but psychedelics won't help us in doing the real work.  It takes great effort.

He supposedly did psychedelics as well. He has books on shrooms saved in his GoodReads profile.

[ricachica]

59 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

What’s immensely sad about this situation is how much he had and how he threw it all away. He had a Masters and Bachelors both from UPenn at only 26 years old, a resume and a LinkedIn profile which screamed success.

Incredibly handsome and fit young guy, and he threw it all away.

For what? If you have such a problem with the American Healthcare system, move to a country with Universal healthcare, such as Italy. With his Ivy League degrees, this was certainly possible for him.

Seems pretty shortsighted to simply leave. Extremely unlikely for most people to completely uproot and leave a society, family, and friends etc. they built their entire lives around. Moving doesn’t solve his broader scale griefs of societies peril at the hands of insurance companies either. That would just solve it on a really personal level.

No one should have to move to a whole other country just for healthcare.

[Frylock]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

What’s immensely sad about this situation is how much he had and how he threw it all away. He had a Masters and Bachelors both from UPenn at only 26 years old, a resume and a LinkedIn profile which screamed success.

Incredibly handsome and fit young guy, and he threw it all away.

For what? If you have such a problem with the American Healthcare system, move to a country with Universal healthcare, such as Italy. With his Ivy League degrees, this was certainly possible for him.

While it doesn't excuse his actions because lots of other people are suffering and don't murder, I'm sure his excruciating physical back pain had an effect on his mental health. By all accounts, he was a normally functioning dude for most of his life. He cared about his studies and making a positive impact on the world with his privilege, which was admirable.

But somewhere along the way, and likely attributed to his mental and physical trauma, he became corrupt and sought revenge to alleviate the pain.

He seemed to have quite a high IQ, and sometimes those people can be deadly when they funnel their rage and intelligence into one chaotic package. There's a reason he admired the unabomber, who also had a very high IQ.

[Thewritersunion]

@Frylock from what I’m aware he had back issues for a year and they fucked with his insurance. 

[Princess Arabia]

The irony is, McDonald's food causes health issues.