44% of Ukrainians wants to negotiate peace

[Basman]

https://kyivindependent.com/44-of-ukrainians-believe-its-time-to-start-official-peace-talks-with-russia-survey-finds/

44% from 23% in May 2023 indicates a growing war fatigue among Ukrainians. The war might not last that much longer, especially with Trump aiming to brute force a peace deal.

It might even end within 1-3 years depending from now, with large parts of eastern Ukraine falling to Russia most likely. We're not quiet there yet.

 

 

[Bobby_2021]

This is what I was saying right from feb of 2022. You are not going to win against Russia. The sooner you take the deal, the more land you can keep.

[Basman]

Ugh, I probably should have posted this in Ukraine thread instead.

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

This is what I was saying right from feb of 2022. You are not going to win against Russia. The sooner you take the deal, the more land you can keep.

I think putting up a good fight lets them set better terms. It shows that invading Ukraine comes with a heavy price. It is too soon yet to start negotiating.

Once peace eventually befalls the region, I can see Ukraine getting nukes depending on how the final terms go and whether or not they join NATO.

[Bobby_2021]

48 minutes ago, Basman said:

It shows that invading Ukraine comes with a heavy price.

People don't acknowledge existential security threats of Russia. They had to pay a heavy price to secure their ass.

48 minutes ago, Basman said:

think putting up a good fight lets them set better terms

NATO backed Ukraine will lose and that would be disastrous for them. 

49 minutes ago, Basman said:

Once peace eventually befalls the region, I can see Ukraine getting nukes depending on how the final terms go and whether or not they join NATO.

This got to be a joke right? Russia can give security guarantee to Ukraine given they take a non aligned stance.

Ukraine wanting NATO is what got us into this mess in the first place.

[Basman]

@Bobby_2021 Finland recently joined NATO and Russia hasn't acted on that in a material way that signals escalation with NATO.

NATO is not a security threat to Russia. It is however a threat to Russian imperialism. Russia gets way more upset when former Soviet countries want to join NATO.

[Basman]

12 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Ukraine wanting NATO is what got us into this mess in the first place.

I'd wager that imperialist ambition was on the forefront of Putin's mind when he decided to invade, thinking it would be another Crimea. Ukraine has valuable resources and sea ports and is geographically strategic relative to a invasion into Russia.

I bet if he knew how much this war would've cost he wouldn't have invaded. Invading Ukraine has resulted in his western enemies bolstering their militaries and becoming stronger. Finland and Sweden have joined NATO as well.

Edited Friday at 06:55 PM by Basman

[Bobby_2021]

10 hours ago, Basman said:

@Bobby_2021 Finland recently joined NATO and Russia hasn't acted on that in a material way that signals escalation with NATO.

NATO is not a security threat to Russia. It is however a threat to Russian imperialism. Russia gets way more upset when former Soviet countries want to join NATO.

1) Finland isn't Ukraine. Different geography different geopolitical situation.

Having NATO missiles in Ukraine that could reach Moscow in a few seconds isn't a security threat enough for you?

This is historically wrong. Check the Munroe doctrine. Cuban Missile crisis. 

Same parallels are happening again.

2) There is no Russian imperialism. This is the bottom of the barrel western propaganda that is so ridiculous, defying all common sense that you cannot even counter it. 

Russia could not even administer the land they have already and you think they want to conquer more land?

There are legit security threats to Russia considering the regime change operations the west has been involved in and it all changed to wasteland since.

[Bobby_2021]

10 hours ago, Basman said:

I'd wager that imperialist ambition was on the forefront of Putin's mind when he decided to invade, thinking it would be another Crimea. Ukraine has valuable resources and sea ports and is geographically strategic relative to a invasion into Russia.

I bet if he knew how much this war would've cost he wouldn't have invaded. Invading Ukraine has resulted in his western enemies bolstering their militaries and becoming stronger. Finland and Sweden have joined NATO as well.

It was not an imperialist ambition. He simply wanted a non hostile mutually beneficial trade partner instead to western hegemonic power near him. 

He could have had all the benefits of ports simply by having a good relationship with Ukraine similar to how the US and Canada are related. US doesn't need to invade Canada because those are friendly nations devoid of foreign interference and US has been upfront about it. 

Similar relations with Ukraine was enough for Russia. But of course once the west gets involved they will do everything in their power to choke Russia even by using the Ukrainian ports.

[Breakingthewall]

14 hours ago, Basman said:

@Bobby_2021 Finland recently joined NATO and Russia hasn't acted on that in a material way that signals escalation with NATO.

NATO is not a security threat to Russia. It is however a threat to Russian imperialism. Russia gets way more upset when former Soviet countries want to join NATO.

You, like most, surprisingly have no idea what this conflict is. It is a proxy war planned for more than a decade by the US.

In Ukraine there was violent nationalism and strong anti-Russian sentiment. breeding ground for the violence that the US, like a vulture, has smelled and promoted. It has supported a coup d'état, supported a war, armed an army, and when that army was enormous in number , it has built 5 virus laboratories near military bases, and finally it has begun the process of delivering nuclear arsenal to that army.

In short, it has made inevitable a war that the stupid Ukrainians, stupid like any nationalist, have enthusiastically supported, when it was obvious that the result was the destruction of their country.

two architects, biden and nuland. two victims, Ukraine and Germany. a winner, the United States that has postponed a deep crisis. and a loser who in the end will be the main winner: Russia, which has united as a nation and has established itself as an undisputed military power.

Edited Saturday at 08:52 AM by Breakingthewall

[BlueOak]

On 06/12/2024 at 6:50 PM, Basman said:

I'd wager that imperialist ambition was on the forefront of Putin's mind when he decided to invade, thinking it would be another Crimea. Ukraine has valuable resources and sea ports and is geographically strategic relative to a invasion into Russia.

I bet if he knew how much this war would've cost he wouldn't have invaded. Invading Ukraine has resulted in his western enemies bolstering their militaries and becoming stronger. Finland and Sweden have joined NATO as well.

People are only able to see their perspective. Maybe I am just lucky that I can see both, or more willing to look through both.

In Russia and their allies they are showing this as a great victory.
In England for example, Russia is seen as a shell of its former self.
In Ukraine its a fight against their oppressor and a malicious tyrant.
In Countries near Russia they see this as a way to keep this as far away from themselves as possible.
Certain BRICS countries see it as a way to dent American imperialism, and a few to establish their own brand of it, China for example.
France sees it as a way to kick back at Russian Africa's influence.
Certain countries see it as an opportune way to expand their own influence, for example in central Asia and also now Syria.

If we wanted 'truth' it would have to include all of these. People don't want truth though, they want something that backs up their own opinion.