No Free Will?

[Daryn]

I loved the video on free will.  I think this is  Leo's best piece of work.  I think it's important to recognize what is opens up for us when we recognize we really don't have free will while thinking we do.  What opens up is we become more at ease with things, more light hearted.  Like "enjoy getting the ride" rather than resisting.  With this relationships and life in general are easier and just flow.  It's good very good stuff.

[so here we are]

 

 

 

[DizIzMikey]

@Leo Gura Is it possible that truth can be obtained externally? 

[TruthSeeker]

what does that even mean?

[Clay]

On 2/15/2016 at 9:44 PM, TruthSeeker said:

Whats is the basis for saying there is no free will?

You make decisions based on what your brain decides to do. Your brain is composed of neurons, which are composed of cells, which are composed of atoms. At a low level, your brain is making decisions based on the predictable routes the atoms within your body decide to move. You don't have control over the individual atoms that make your brain function, they have control over you.

That is the technical scientific answer. Does this mean we shouldn't lock up criminals? Not necessarily, because we can still purposely define free will at the level of an individual's brain-made decisions, so that they are held accountable for their actions and society can remain stable. It comes down to how want to define free will, which is an unwinnable philosophical debate based on subjectivity, kind of like debating the stage at which terminating a newly formed human becomes immoral.

Then, of course, there is Leo's transcendental answer which leaps over the debate of definitions.

[fdrakely]

One way to not be upset over not having free will is to think (not freely)...it never existed in the first place. And if free will doesn't exist, that means anything you say in objection, isn't free will. Any argument against free will, isn't free will. You can do jumping jacks and sing kum-ba-yah, but it wasn't by choice. Although it may have APPEARED to be choice. But that's an ILLUSION, just how "ME" is an illusion. It means, there is no YOU (mental idea of self) and there never has been. It also means things happen. Thoughts, emotions, actions, conversations, opinions, HAPPEN. Everything which makes up life, just happens. Think about that. But remember nobody is thinking - rather the thinking is simply HAPPENING. 

[fdrakely]

My not-so-scientific proof against free will...look at these penguins. Would you say they have free will? Is it plausible to think each one collaborated and in an orderly fashion they schemed this ingenious tactic to keep warm? Or could we say, the nothingness/energy which makes up EVERYTHING, including US, is at work? If the penguins don't have free will, why would we?

Why does man consider himself separate and special vs the rest of nature? We aren't separate in reality. Only in our minds, which is why we don't realize we don't actually exist. That is the illusion. Not having free will is okay because, we never had it in the first place. Just like once someone becomes enlightened, they realize they never existed. 

Again, nothing I wrote here was by MY choice. Although it seems like it, in reality, it just happens. It arises from nothingness. 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2016 by fdrakely

[Daryn]

Here is some good food for thought on freewill from the Bhagavad Gita...

https://auromere.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/gita-chapter-18-verse-60-61-illusion-of-free-will/

[TruthSeeker]

My claim is that Free will exists just as much as my nose exists. If your going with the train of thought that your nose doesn't exist (because obviously it doesn't exist...nothing exists) then your right free will doesn't exist. But in as much as one would claim that his nose exists...then free will exists.

Just like to some extent and SOMEHOW there IS this ILLUSION of DUALITY which APPEARS to us as REAL (like our nose), so too FREE WILL.

[Guest]

 

@TruthSeeker

[TruthSeeker]

I cant watch videos...you can summarize the video if you want

[Guest]

Nope. Watch it if you want to understand.

[TruthSeeker]

I cant!

[Guest]

I simply don't have the time to summarize it..The guy makes a genuine logical argument not based on you existing or not, your choice...
Besides...how do you watch Leo's videos then?

[DizIzMikey]

On 2/15/2016 at 6:50 PM, jjer94 said:

Check out Leo's video on free will.

The most fundamental basis is that free will requires an agent of will, and when you look in our experience, you can't find one. 

Here's another article explaining the problems with free will better than I can ever explain it:

http://www.uncoveringlife.com/free-will/

Just because you cannot find an agent for experience, doesn't mean there is not one. 

[Daryn]

When I consider this issue I am not sure that I want to get wrapped up in the debate, so much.  I don't think anyone would disagree that we don't have 100% freewill.

What is important is what the last paragraph the in the article on the link on the previous post suggests:

When you realize this—that nothing could be different than it is—the habit of incessantly worrying about past and future decisions can finally come to an end. Thoughts surrounding the notions of selection and choice need not to occupy our consciousness anymore; instead, their absence signifies a newfound freedom: anything but constant perfection is starting to become unthinkable. In the absence of these thoughts surrounding the notion of “free will,” we can at last rest assured that everything is always unfolding exactly as it should.

As Leo suggests in his video if you assume you have 100% control you will live in a kind of hell.  When I reflect on this in my own life I see truth in this.  

I think this is why I love this video so much and it has been so transformational for me.  When I accept the idea that I may not be in control 100% and let situations unfold my level of anxiety with respect to events and situations is reduced significantly and I am much more effective in the moment.  I have experienced a sense of liberation with this which is huge.

Can't thank Leo enough for this one...

 

[jjer94]

10 hours ago, DizIzMikey said:

Just because you cannot find an agent for experience, doesn't mean there is not one. 

That's like saying, just because you haven't found Santa Clause yet doesn't mean he doesn't exist, so you'll keep believing in him. I mean, if you want to keep believing in his existence, go for it. Nothing wrong with that.

[MaxBlank]

There is no free will.

We don't choose when we come out of the womb, that is decided for us; thus begins the life in this "matrix". All choices and decisions are based on the circumstances at hand. That is all there is. This is true from deciding what you eat for your next meal, to what you decide for your career. This continues until the moment of death, which we also have not control over.

Have a nice day!

Edited March 3, 2016 by WarPants

[Daryn]

and enjoy the ride...

[TruthSeeker]

15 hours ago, TwoDays said:

I simply don't have the time to summarize it..The guy makes a genuine logical argument not based on you existing or not, your choice...
Besides...how do you watch Leo's videos then?

mp3