No Free Will?

[Dhana Choko]

I think this is just so simple. You have no Free Will because everything you are is based on what you have learned and you cannot choose beyond your own thoughts and experiences. That is why you don't have a free will. You have a very limited selection of choices in each choice scenario in your life, because it is all based on who you think you are, what you think you have lived, what you think is a good life, what you believe is possible for you etc. Even if you would change the thoughts of how you view yourself as and what you think is possible for you, you are still again bound by your thoughts. So you can never truly "choose" from a completely clear plate. And the more you Awaken, the more you realize the how little you ever had any sorts of "free will" and the more you realize your true nature, You Do Not Even Want a Free Will.  

 

[Sen]

As I see it there is no personal Free Will because we operate drawn to what it makes us feel good even though we think that we do whatever we want. It takes a lot of awareness to realize how unconsciousness our behaviors are. Observe your action and question them.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Sen

[Guest]

@TruthSeeker

All actions can be classified as either material world actions or non self-serving. Some material world actions can be self serving actions all cause bad karma to build up, causing further self-serving thoughts and further self-serving actions, all helping to build up the ego and cage you in. Non-self serving actions are the opposite. Other material world actions are those like what ice-cream flavor..meaningless.

In a sense, we HAVE TO have free will to take one action over the other, otherwise the concept of karma would be random, and meaningless. But it's not the same kind of free will which you are talking about, and most people are talking about on this thread. Non-self serving actions point us towards the idea and revelation of no-self, towards the rejection of material wealthand worldy desires and the embracing of love and oneness. Self-serving actions cause bad karma etc..(watch Leo's video on karma). Essentially we also therefore have to have free will in order for enlightenment not to be just another random experience...The mind doesn't have control over it's thoughts, but it seems to me that the mind has some sort of non-self type of free will to veto thoughts before they become actions...whether this cones through you frm  the true self or what.. i dont know...I cannot name it as I do not fully know it.

Most people however, DONT have free will, they are caught in their material world and desires, unable to see the path due to their selfishness. It's not a cut and dry case...

Also to look up "right view, right intention, Right action, right speech, right livelihood" the Gautama Buddha laid it all out true in my opinion, and that's not a conclusion that I came to through blind belief...

 

Actions perpetuate thought which perpetuate actions.

Edited February 16, 2016 by tryingforfreedom

[TruthSeeker]

@tryingforfreedom Wow the first post in this thread that actually makes some sense to me...I'll comment on what you said later! Thanks!

 

 

[Dhana Choko]

2 hours ago, tryingforfreedom said:

 

In a sense, we HAVE TO have free will to take one action over the other, otherwise the concept of karma would be random, and meaningless.

Well some teachers seem to think that indeed there is no such thing as "karma" and that it is meaningless. Some say that the only "karma" you can have of your actions, is living in a mind that would choose something that is bad for others - that in itself is the "karma" of the chosen "negative" action. 

[Guest Kingkong123]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It makes a huge difference if you actually believe you have any control over reality. If you do, from this one belief comes all your emotional suffering in life. The next time you experience a sharp pain or disappointment or fear about the future of your life, remind yourself that you have no control over it and notice how differently you relate to the pain or fear than if you believed you did have control over it.

Believing you have control over something which you actually have no control over is literally insane. And it's ruining your life.

Perhaps my comment was not percise enough... I do understand and have experienced ego death. While you are correct, my point was that you may be (IMHO) taking this theory too far. You said  "...from this one belief comes all your emotional suffering in life..." Taking this to an extreme for some people may ultimately lead to the very thing you are trying to prevent; nihilism, lack of ambition, depression etc.  This is analogous to religious beliefs In a way. When I lost my faith (Christianity) long ago I fell into severe depression and nothing mattered. Everything was dark. I subsequently realized the value of the 'illusion'. It was like a catastrophic ripening; I knew too much too soon. Anyway ultimately you may be right you may not... If quantum physics has taught us anything, its that even the laws of physics are not concrete, just statstical laws. But just because that's the case doesn't mean we must renounce them,this would not in anyway help us scientifically, on the contrantry. Personally I stand in the middle, as I do with religion. The answer is neither yes or no, but simply 'we don't know'. Anyone who claims otherwise is dogmatic and biased.

My only question to you is how do know? Could your standpoint perhaps be the illusion? Moreover this can also be used as a 'get out of jail free card' rendering any active pursuit of anything (including watch you videos, much less applying your advice) FUTILE. In closing I do not understand how you can embrace this idea 100%, much less positively.

 

[Guest Kingkong123]

ANNOUNCEMENT:

For those pondering over this very difficult question, I believe theoretical truth (free will vs determinism) is really void of the more important subtext, namely the nature of our existence. I have found that either extreme is a dogmatic bias, the former towards the 'ego' delusion, the latter towards ultimate nihilism (in a general sense). Like justifying being a seriel killer by one theory, or a terrorist by the other . Both are bad . Thus we must content ourselves with not, at present having a sufficient answer and therefore, for all practical purposes, cherry pick the positives from this plethora of information. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Dhana Choko said:

Well some teachers seem to think that indeed there is no such thing as "karma" and that it is meaningless. Some say that the only "karma" you can have of your actions, is living in a mind that would choose something that is bad for others - that in itself is the "karma" of the chosen "negative" action. 

Yes..karma only exists if you aren't "enlightened".

Essentially believing in karma means believing in the material world. Which is why we shouldn't properly answer the question of whether the mind/self has free will or not. (for the unenlightened anyway)

This is all getting really complicated for me to explain...there is no such thing as karma, only applicable as a concept  to those who are not free.

Hellsgunz100 is basically saying the same thing..

Edited February 17, 2016 by tryingforfreedom

[Amplituda]

If material world, You and free will doesn't exist, how can One become enlightened? Does enlightment experience exist and if so who is to experience it? someone who doesn't exist?

 

[TruthSeeker]

6 minutes ago, Amplituda said:

If material world, You and free will doesn't exist, how can One become enlightened? Does enlightment experience exist and if so who is to experience it? someone who doesn't exist?

 

The material world exists...you exist...and we have free will. Period. 

 

 

 

[Amplituda]

TruthSeeker, you finally found THE TRUTH! Good job

 

[TruthSeeker]

No, Im constantly searching. Just because someone knows the truth doesn't mean he's experiencing it. Or living it. Every day is a challenge and every day is a quest. Never let your guard down. Always dig deeper and deeper...this world if very deep and no one has even scratched the surface.

[TruthSeeker]

He who created it

Edited February 18, 2016 by TruthSeeker

[TruthSeeker]

Its not a physical seeing...its a realization that when I'm eating an apple...I realize "Oh wow God is creating right now and willing this apple into existence for my pleasure...Thank you so much God for willing this apple into existence for my pleasure"

It's a realization when I wake up in the morning and I can breath with my lungs and see with my eyes that God is willing that those things should happen every second. 

The challenge and the search is to constantly realize that these things are being done for me. The lower-self / ego wants to ignore that these things are being granted to him, because then he would have to admit that someone is doing something for him and we like to be independent and not have to depend on anyone for anything. 

The search is to see God in the world. To realize that he is constantly creating everything...every second for our benefit. 

This is the scratching that I speak of and thats what it looks like....thank you for asking  

[TruthSeeker]

Who created the food you ate today? Did it make itself? Just curious...

[jjer94]

@TruthSeeker What were you before you were born? Did you make yourself? Just curious... 

[abrakamowse]

It's better to go to and do the mindfulness meditation to see the reality and find it by ourselves, right?

 

Just saying.

[TruthSeeker]

11 minutes ago, jjer94 said:

@TruthSeeker What were you before you were born? Did you make yourself? Just curious... 

No, the Creator of the universe and all of reality is graciously willing me into existence at every moment. 

40 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

What if the ego actually does not like to be independent. What if ego is so dependent that it has created your idea of god and that's exactly what prevents you from finding.

My ego has not created "my idea of God" its logical. Things cant make themselves...they have to me made by someone....If you saw a watermill in the desert...wouldn't you assume that someone made it....you would find it absurd if someone said that the water mill made itself...same thing with all the complex things in this world...there must be someone who is running the show and creating everything constantly. Pure logic

Edited February 18, 2016 by TruthSeeker

[TruthSeeker]

2 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

So if god created your idea of god, then your idea of god is not god. That's what I'm trying to say, ego's dependence causes you to mistake the image of god for god, so you won't find god only an image. Technically that's idolatry.

I will never find God...God is infinite and has no limits...he somehow (in ways that I don't know) created beings (us)  to think there exists things besides himself. My goal isn't to find God. My goal it to constantly at every moment in my life realize I am in a world that he created and realize that he is willing me into existence. If I don't recognize this, it is tantamount to someone giving me a new iPhone and me just ignoring that person...not recognizing that he gave it to me and not thanking him. Or someone helping me carry my bags and then just walking away without looking at that person or thanking them... Its rude. Eating food and not recognizing that every ounce of pleasure you get from every bite is being given to you by he who created the very idea of pleasure is rude. We need to recognize that everything is being created for our benefit and pleasure and give thanks to he who created it. Simple as that.

 No idolatry here . 

[TruthSeeker]

God is infinite. 

The next time you eat...right before you put the food in your mouth, think "Who created this food". How did the world get here...Did it create itself? Did this food create itself? Recognize who created it and thank your creator. Its the least you can do. Think of all the things he does for you...every time your heart beats its because he's willing it to beat every second. Every breath you take...every move you make!!! Its all him willing it into existence and giving you the ability....Thank him