Leo, you are making me confused again 😅

[wellbranding]

Hello, @Leo Gura, I could write this in private, but maybe it will be useful for others.

So to give some context, I have a computer programming degree, started coding at 15 (I am 25), and started watching Leo at around 14-15. Leo made a huge impact on me. Starting with Life purpose and following other spiritual explorations.

Now I take C level position at a local SaaS, whom I joined at the early stages and together we managed to make it a success and employ 50+ people. I made a fortune myself, but during all this time I was doing a lot myself, doing it very passionately and seeing a complexity and beauty in software, design and building robust ecosystems. I always had this negative reaction towards hiring people and making them work as slaves, I don't know where that came from, maybe my natural inclination towards independence (at least independence of the tasks, thoughts). 

2 years ago I have also co-founded a DeFi startup (crypto, blockchain, yea I know) and from what I saw you have a negative stance on that, labeling it as a scam industry. Bro, why can't you see a beauty in DeFi? Having your own private keys, contributing to liquidity pools. Just check projects like uniswap, aave protocol, look at how interchangeable they are, it is similar to your videos about holons. Also, you keep always talking about social contructs, etc. Well, what is money? A total social construct, it's laughable. Especially value, which is intangible thing and vastly relative, depending on many factors. Now I made a success again in terms of financial aspect.

But here is my internal struggle appears or perhaps it always was. If you actually check, you will see that I have messaged you like 7 years ago, asking on career direction. Now, look - I did archieve what I always dreamed and loved (I imagine you also love game design in a similar way). My struggle is that, your posts on your blog and also in forum make it look like that success is evil. I do get, and to be honest I do agree, how delusional in some aspects I have also become. But still I feel purpose is essential, and what is wrong with building software or blockchain projects which don't even need marketing. People use them themselves. And I do know about the scams, but some protocols are already 5+ years in and actually growing in adoption and value. And believe me, people there understand all the dirty stuff of traditional finance, etc.

Now it got into a point where I am constantly negative, reduced my socialization even more, having depressed moods. I do exercise and play tennis at a competitive level, but have 0 success finding girlfriend. I could use money to get more fame, build bigger social circle, but I don't want to. If people don't value my work ethic, my character- why should I try to bribe them? It is beyond disgusting. Also, who knows, maybe I look like a child for females, still have to learn a lot.

So yeah, my point of being is that I am very very confused on how to make a distinction between your life purpose, doing it consciously and not being a corrupted.

And also, for all these 7 years I always had a hinge that you seem to miss how evil and manipulative people are. Especially in business. I saw a post where you also concluded it, so I am happy for you. And that is also kinda my approach - to understand manipuliations, understand greed and try to remind yourself that. But also try to love others.

One more thing. I am more sensitive than others from the childhood. I think that played a part in me being to depressed about the state of the world. And now it feels to me that you became complete nihilistic which leads nowhere or just harming yourself.

 

And yes I did mushrooms, meditate, had profound realizations and try to continue to do so. Also saw your video on solipsism. What it did - was to distance myself from the people even more.

Edited November 30 by wellbranding

[RightHand]

1 hour ago, wellbranding said:

 And yes I did mushrooms

Do more 

[wellbranding]

24 minutes ago, RightHand said:

Do more 

One trip in the nature induced a major panic attack. 2-3 months was feeling less grounded and "out of body".

I think I need more integration, not new experiences - I already have a vivid imagination 😅

[wellbranding]

@Leo Gurabringing again 👌

[Leo Gura]

You have to be careful about how you interpret things I say. You might think I said something which I didn't say.

For example, I didn't say that you should not socialize, not have friends, not pursue money or business, or not work on a technology related to crypto.

I say a lot of things generally, in the abstract. That doesn't mean all of it applies to you or that what you're doing is even what I'm talking about.

Obviously the crypto field is full of scams and nonsense. But saying so does not mean that there is zero legit use of that technology. Maybe you are working in a niche which isn't a scam. Then again, maybe you are fooling yourself about the usefulness of your work. You shouldn't rely on me to determine that. You gotta think for yourself. I speak in generalizations and abstractions. It's up to you to figure how and where these generalizations apply and where they do not.

Much of how humans achieve success IS evil and corrupt. But, again, not everything. There are better and worse ways of doing business and making money. Obviously I'm not against doing legitimate business in alignment with your values. Again, I cannot know whether your business is legit or not, or how corrupt it is.

Corruption is a serious problem that afflicts all of mankind in various ways. Much of it is even unavoidable. Then again, much of it is so excessive that it is avoidable and unnecessary. It just all depends on your specific situation. When I speak of corruption I make broad general claims and explain the principles by which corruption works. It is then up to you to decide what kind of values you wanna live by and how much corruption you're willing to stomach. I have a complex view of corruption. I don't believe that all corruption can be avoided, because it's entangled with your very existence and survival. So I'm realistic about it. I don't expect moral purity from humans.

Becoming conscious of mankind's corruption IS psychologically challenging. That's not a mistake. But you have to be careful not to dwell too much in cynicism because in the end that becomes counter-productive, dysfunctional, and untruthful. You have to find a way to integrate it, not just moralize about it. Blaming everyone for being evil and selfish is not high development. Moralizing is its own trap. Then again, living by higher values is possible.

As I came to understand the extent of mankind's corruption and untruthfulness, yes, I did blackpill/disillusion myself somewhat. That's part of what happens with deep understanding. There's good reason why humans do not do this work. But also, I'm keenly aware that becoming too cynical and blackpilled would be a trap. So this requires balance. I go through phases where I'm more negative and then phases where I'm more positive. It's part of the development process. Especially over the last year I've been through some dark realizations. But that doesn't mean that's some permanent position I occupy. But I have shed many illusions in the last year especially as my understanding of things deepens and becomes more realistic.

It's confusing because actual growth and understanding is happening. This means old views have to be reconsidered and changed. It's easy to not be confused just by not doing any serious expansion of your understanding of reality. That's what most people do. Confusion is a sign that you're actually rethinking things and changing your mind.

Life purpose is still valid and valuable. Corruption is that which will veer you off your highest purpose. So there's a deep connection between these two topics.

Be careful with the "distance yourself from people" thing. That's not something I recommend.

I am not against:

• Business
• Money
• Sex
• Dating
• Socialization

These things have their place and are necessary for most people in their development. Especially young people. Skipping or avoiding these things out of a sense of moral purity is more likely to lead to problems than something great. If I'm negative about these things it's because I've done them and seen through the illusion that they are. Which is different from not doing them out of fear, laziness, discomfort, or whatever.

Edited December 9 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura what were your dark realizations? I mean that people in power mostly will do corruption if nobody no law Etc stops them , is obvious.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura what were your dark realizations? I mean that people in power mostly will do corruption if nobody no law Etc stops them , is obvious.

It's much deeper and more nuanced than that.

I've had profound insights into the workings of mankind, society, civilization, culture, politics, social hierarchies, etc. I understand the fantasies and illusions that govern all of mankind's ignorance and behavior. That's no light thing to stomach.

I want to make some videos about it but I'm also careful not to blackpill you guys. I haven't even released videos on this topic yet and you guys already saying I'm too negative and cynical. If I actually laid it all out, you guys would get super bummed out.

Edited December 9 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

want to make some videos about it but I'm also careful not to blackpill you guys. I haven't even released videos on this topic yet and you guys already saying I'm too negative and cynical. If I actually laid it all out, you guys would get super bummed out.

Package it into a course as some advance insights or something. 

Or pay a small fee so that the people who complain won't ruin it for everyone.

The more people complain the more valuable it is, very generally speaking.

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Package it into a course as some advance insights or something. 

Or pay a small fee so that the people who complain won't ruin it for everyone.

The more people complain the more valuable it is, very generally speaking.

That doesn't solve the problem of bumming people out and making them depressed and hopeless.

Edited December 9 by Leo Gura

[RightHand]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's much deeper and more nuanced than that.

I've had profound insights into the workings of mankind, society, civilization, culture, politics, social hierarchies, etc. I understand the fantasies and illusions that govern all of mankind's ignorance and behavior. That's no light thing to stomach.

I want to make some videos about it but I'm also careful not to blackpill you guys. I haven't even released videos on this topic yet and you guys already saying I'm too negative and cynical. If I actually laid it all out, you guys would get super bummed out.

Your blog post about PFAS pollution was hard to stomach. I understand your worries.

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, RightHand said:

Your blog post about PFAS pollution was hard to stomach. I understand your worries.

That's a very mild example.

Edited December 9 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I want to make some videos about it but I'm also careful not to blackpill you guys. I haven't even released videos on this topic yet and you guys already saying I'm too negative and cynical. If I actually laid it all out, you guys would get super bummed out.

I could intuit that, not everyone can take it. It's all about how you frame it and leave the door open for hope and improvement. I feel you could be totally ruthless while inspiring the audience and leaving a good taste.

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That doesn't solve the problem of bumming people out and making them depressed and hopeless.

Making me depressed and hopeless because of some harsh truth is a valuable thing. I would appreciate that very much because I would come closer to reality. But not all people are like me.

If you make such an video for example the pollution etc you could do some counterexamples that there is still hope so that you don't left your audience with negativity. And there is always hope (, technological advancement etc).

I would really appreciate to be black pilled and I feel I am not alone. 

 

 

 

Edited December 9 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Making me depressed and hopeless because of some harsh truth is a valuable thing. I would appreciate that very much

Not necessarily. Lots of room for misunderstanding.

[Terell Kirby]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I want to make some videos about it but I'm also careful not to blackpill you guys. I haven't even released videos on this topic yet and you guys already saying I'm too negative and cynical. If I actually laid it all out, you guys would get super bummed out.

I’d personally like to see more in depth videos on human corruption and depravity, not to moralize but to deepen my understanding

I think a lot of us actually do understand that what you are talking about isn’t moralization, rather it’s helping us be able to see one’s level of epistemic corruption as it relates to being further or closer to Truth. Corruption is on a spectrum, and no human can maintain its survival without some degree of corruption.

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

So I'm realistic about it. I don't expect moral purity from humans.

I think a lot of your audience wants to connect with you on a human level (me included)-maybe you can talk a little bit more about your personal experience with corruption, ways in which you have been corrupted by your own survival and the challenges you’ve had to face. I commend you for your post, but it’s the first time that we’re really hearing about how your insights have been psychologically taxing on you (since starting the topic of corruption and being epistemically perverted).
 

Edited December 9 by Terell Kirby

[RendHeaven]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Especially over the last year I've been through some dark realizations. But that doesn't mean that's some permanent position I occupy. But I have shed many illusions in the last year especially as my understanding of things deepens and becomes more realistic.

It's confusing because actual growth and understanding is happening. This means old views have to be reconsidered and changed. It's easy to not be confused just by not doing any serious expansion of your understanding of reality. That's what most people do. Confusion is a sign that you're actually rethinking things and changing your mind.

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If I actually laid it all out, you guys would get super bummed out.

I can take it please share

(insert spongebob begging gif)

[lostingenosmaze]

31 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

I think a lot of us actually do understand that what you are talking about isn’t moralization

Not at all, not even here on this forum I'd argue, but especially not his YouTube viewerbase. Otherwise Leo's Solipsism video would still be up, he did took that down saying viewers are too immature to understand it. And I'd imagine his Blackpill video would be taken much more worse if he's not too careful about it

[Thought Art]

Honestly, I’m dealing with some black pill stuff atm.

Edited December 9 by Thought Art

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Honestly, I’m dealing with some black pill stuff atm.

Do share

[Lyubov]

Life keeps coming, doesn’t it? I can relate. I mean I have little income, what I want or dream of I’m not sure will align with money, it could (YouTuber / content creator) and one destabilizing event could really affect my life, and I have no one to turn to for help. No family will take me in, nor would I ask this. Would I start to live in a dishonest way to avoid this? I mean, I would tempt myself for sure if it meant not starving or living on street or couch. We have to be flexible when living life so we may have to adapt to all sorts of challenges we face and I know we all are wanting to do our best. Clearly you are doing well. Just ask yourself. “In what ways am I living life dishonestly” and actually fucking listen and answer honestly. Speaking truthfully and clear intuitive answers come when you speak truthfully. If you are afraid of the answers that come and resist them then you will be confused and not trust yourself which creates a downward spiral.
 

I’ve been on this journey with Leo for a while now too. I started watching Leo in 2016/17. What I can say on this is that we have to form our own world view and realize your pursuit of truth, mine, Leo’s, it’s all different. Spirituality is personal to you as it is to me. To be aligned with truth is to show you how to live in a balanced way. I think Leo is a little nihilistic about this because he puts a lot of energy into case studies and politics. The thing is it’s easy to feel this way when looking out into the world and finding evidence of “corruption” yet ignore every other bit of evidence in one’s own life which points towards truth, speaks to you being on the right path. We are living in the unknown, things are always uncertain to some degree. We all want to survive and thrive. I believe we can for ourselves do well if we live balanced. I believe we can partake in business and do well and find peace and wellbeing even in hard times and even know when our direction is off. 
 

if you want answers to your questions that are true, look within and be honest with yourself. Maybe it will be hard because maybe some of the business dealings you have taken part in required you to be dishonest? But even this can be resolved and does resolve quite smoothly and  easily for your personally if you are actually willing to align with truth. The challenges may still be there on how to be more honest and what you need to do to live in flow and harmony but continue to let go and if you trust in this higher guidance you won’t have any doubts or regrets about what you’re doing for money. 
 

Good luck on your journey and resolving this issue for yourself.