Enlightenment

[Breakingthewall]

48 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I get that but still- for you to function, to work and hold a job -  to do anything and function as a human in society, there is a sense of you in there.  That sense of you is what dissolves with awakening.  You believe you are whatever you believe you are and don't tell me that you just walk around existing and the body just moves for you because then you are going to sound just like these neo-advaitan morons who have twisted everything around and didn't actually awaken.  There is a sense of self there whether you want to admit that to me or not.  The opposite is something called Depersonalization disorder which is actually almost identical to awakening.  Do you have that?  No.

Let's see, obviously I know that I'm a man, that I need money, that I can be sick and that of someone hits me with an iron bar is bad for me, but we are talking in metaphisical sense. What are you ultimately. Then, ultimately it's beyond the conceptual dimension, anything that you could say conceptual has a limit, for example: I'm a man, that is a dimension of life after a lot of evolution, that is a dimension of the matter , that is a dimension of the energy, that is something that happens in the cosmos and that organizes itself in complex patterns. Ok, well, all this is conceptual. Then I could say: and this energy is a manifestation of the divine power that arises from nothingness because there are not limits and want to experience itself. But all that is not what you are, what you are is here and now, a reality beyond any concept, right? Then, can you, or anyone open yourself totally to realize what you really are? Then you can say all that conceptual thing, but really open to yourself, really, the absolute, is something different, it's just absolute, impossible to say. And it's not, ah ok, I'm conciousness, no, it's absolute and real, it's what existence is. It's nothing like obvious, or normal, or eureka moment, it's open a door that is closed . What closes is the movement, the experience 

Edited December 6 by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Let's see, obviously I know that I'm a man, that I need money, that I can be sick and that of someone hits me with an iron bar is bad for me, but we are talking in metaphisical sense. What are you ultimately. Then, ultimately it's beyond the conceptual dimension, anything that you could say conceptual has a limit, for example: I'm a man, that is a dimension of life after a lot of evolution, that is a dimension of the matter , that is a dimension of the energy, that is something that happens in the cosmos and that organizes itself in complex patterns. Ok, well, all this is conceptual. Then I could say: and this energy is a manifestation of the divine power that arises from nothingness because there are not limits and want to experience itself. But all that is not what you are, what you are is here and now, a reality beyond any concept, right? Then, can you, or anyone open yourself totally to realize what you really are? Then you can say all that conceptual thing, but really open to yourself, really, the absolute, is something different, it's just absolute, impossible to say. 

Humor me here because I want to do a little self inquiry.   Don't just dismiss and say you are a man but now let's think of the metaphysical sense.  No.  Don't just skip over that because in that is actual awakening.  You're conceptualizing by browsing over it.  No.  Sit down in meditation and dispel the notion that you are a man.  What is a man?  What does it mean?  Does it mean someone with a penis or is it an idea in your mind of a masculine entity.   Is it an entity behind the eyes that's masculine vs feminine?  For me I thought I was this, this entity behind the eyes.  A soul.  But when I realized that this was an idea or a thought it hit me that the me was a total illusion.  This spawned enlightenment.   So don't brush over this.  Enlightenment is not conceptual as you are explaining it to be.  It will be actual.

Edited December 6 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Humor me here because I want to do a little self inquiry.   Don't just dismiss and say you are a man but now let's think of the metaphysical sense.  No.  Don't just skip over that because in that is actual awakening.  You're conceptualizing by browsing over it.  No.  Sit down in meditation and dispel the notion that you are a man.  What is a man?  What does it mean?  Does it mean someone with a penis or is it an idea in your mind of a masculine entity.   Is it an entity behind the eyes that's masculine vs feminine?  For me I thought I was this, this entity behind the eyes.  A soul.  But when I realized that this was an idea or a thought it hit me that the me was a total illusion.  This spawned enlightenment.   So don't brush over this.  Enlightenment is not conceptual as you are explaining it to be.  It will be actual.

I can sit and totally stop thinking very easily because I do every single day. Then I don't think if I'm a man or any entity, there is empty mind and flow of life. But this is not enlightenment. Enlightenment is opening the experience and the manifestation of the absolute. Nothing else could be said. Being with totally empty mind is experience. A cat in the sofa has empty mind and it's an experience, and it's not enlightened, it can't be open to the absolute because it doesn't want to see and to open. It want to be the experience and be happy being a cat, nothing else. It's different. The absolute is what everything is beyond the experience, it's everything, and nothing, bla BLA, because it's no thing, no dimension, no perception, no experience, but it's everything. Just absolute. It is not even infinity, because infinity implies big without end. It's not big or small, it is absolute, that's it, and you are that, everything is that

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I can sit and totally stop thinking very easily because I do every single day. Then I don't think if I'm a man or any entity, there is empty mind and flow of life. But this is not enlightenment.

 

That is where you want to be but you haven't done it long enough for enlightenment.   For you it could take years of doing this and not leaving this state.  Many monks have sit and tried for decades.   I was lucky.  

Edited December 6 by Inliytened1

[JoshB]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I was lucky.  

Same 

[James123]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

That is where you want to be but you haven't done it long enough for enlightenment.   For you it could take years of doing this and not leaving this state.  Many monks have sit and tried for decades.   I was lucky.  

It can take dedicated 6 months to a year in darkness and silence retreat.

[Inliytened1]

37 minutes ago, JoshB said:

Same 

Haha.  Love that.  You are the buddah.  So when you see him on the side of the road spare him.  Hes you.  

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, James123 said:

It can take dedicated 6 months to a year in darkness and silence retreat.

Agreed 

[JoshB]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Haha.  Love that.  You are the buddah.  So when you see him on the side of the road spare him.  Hes you.  

If you meet the buddha on the road, kiss him

[Breakingthewall]

50 minutes ago, James123 said:

It can take dedicated 6 months to a year in darkness and silence retreat.

Your dick is so big. Oh my god.

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

That is where you want to be but you haven't done it long enough for enlightenment.   For you it could take years of doing this and not leaving this state.  Many monks have sit and tried for decades.   I was lucky.  

Oh my fuckin god 

🤣

[WritingHands]

[Javfly33]

On 12/6/2024 at 5:58 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Being with totally empty mind is experience. A cat in the sofa has empty mind and it's an experience, and it's not enlightened, it can't be open to the absolute because it doesn't want to see and to open. It want to be the experience and be happy being a cat, nothing else.

Exactly. We really need to start diferenciating between awareness and just empty mind. Just because mind is empty doesn't necessarily mean awareness is there. An awareness can be there even with an active mind. 

You could drink a bottle of vodka and have a peaceful empty mind. Does that mean enlightment? No, in fact you are even further from enlightment than sober, you are less conscious, less emphatic, less aware of reality. But you have empty mind, at least you are not suffering. But you are not alive either. 

Edited December 14 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Exactly. We really need to start diferenciating between awareness and just empty mind. Just because mind is empty doesn't necessarily mean awareness is there. An awareness can be there even with an active mind. 

You could drink a bottle of vodka and have a peaceful empty mind. Does that mean enlightment? No, in fact you are even further from enlightment than sober, you are less conscious, less emphatic, less aware of reality. But you have empty mind, at least you are not suffering. But you are not alive either. 

For me enlightenment is being open to the absolute, that's a reality, and it doesn't depends exactly of your level of consciousness. It is rather the rupture of a pattern of perception, the pattern involves perceiving as a "happening", as a chain of events.

You can have a very high level of consciousness of what your experience is, but you cannot get out of the experience. the absolute is not experience, this is very difficult to see but it is obvious. What is an experience? something that happens, that goes from point A to B.

The absolute is dimensionless, therefore it does not occur, it does not move, it is immutable. Imagine that your experience is always exactly the same, would it be an experience? would it be something? For reality to appear as something must change and any change is relative. Openness to the absolute is not perceiving the absolute because perceiving requires change, you cannot perceive nothingness, or deep sleep, or death, which are simply absence of change, you can be open to it, because you really are that. Everything become nothing, infinity and zero are the same in the sense of absence of "happening", and absolute potential. In infinity nothing happens because it encompass any possibile happening, it already happened infinite times, then, it's the same than no happening. There is not movement, any movement is just apparent, relative to a reference point, but not real, then it's homogeneous and immutable, same than the nothingness. Nothingness is everything, everything is nothingness, and this is the absolute, that is, you. 

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

For me enlightenment is being open to the absolute, that's a reality, and it doesn't depends exactly of your level of consciousness. It is rather the rupture of a pattern of perception, the pattern involves perceiving as a "happening", as a chain of events.

You can have a very high level of consciousness of what your experience is, but you cannot get out of the experience. the absolute is not experience, this is very difficult to see but it is obvious. What is an experience? something that happens, that goes from point A to B.

The absolute is dimensionless, therefore it does not occur, it does not move, it is immutable. Imagine that your experience is always exactly the same, would it be an experience? would it be something? For reality to appear as something must change and any change is relative. Openness to the absolute is not perceiving the absolute because perceiving requires change, you cannot perceive nothingness, or deep sleep, or death, which are simply absence of change, you can be open to it, because you really are that. Everything become nothing, infinity and zero are the same in the sense of absence of "happening", and absolute potential. In infinity nothing happens because it encompass any possibile happening, it already happened infinite times, then, it's the same than no happening. There is not movement, any movement is just apparent, relative to a reference point, but not real, then it's homogeneous and immutable, same than the nothingness. Nothingness is everything, everything is nothingness, and this is the absolute, that is, you. 

In every moment, there exists both the changeful and the changeless. The changeful is the realm of form, movement, and illusion - this is what the ego’s eyes perceive. The changeless, by contrast, is the realm of truth, the eternal, and the unchanging reality that lies beyond appearances.

The ego’s perception focuses entirely on the changeful, and overlooks the changeless. It fixates on the shifting forms of the world, including the much loved face that appears in the mirror, reinforcing the illusion that this here is all there is. This deeply entrenched survival mechanism is what makes it so challenging to turn our attention away from the transient and toward the timeless.

The work, I suggest, is to mindfully practice looking at the illusion of the changeful as if it simply doesn't exist, in order to facilitate recognizing the changeless. All this here is smoke and mirrors and drifting dust in the wind. This ushers in a hard-won shift in perception - an unflagging alertness to see through what the physical eyes show us. By holding in mind this new enlightened perspective until it sticks naturally, we keep ourselves permanently open to the absolute reality that lies beyond it and sits before us.

As we practice this, something profound kicks in: physical sight dims, and true vision enters. Sight, which is rooted in the ego, shows us a fragmented and temporary world. Vision, on the other hand, which is rooted in truth, illuminates the eternal wholeness that has always been present.

Edited December 14 by gettoefl

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

In every moment, there exists both the changeful and the changeless. The changeful is the realm of form, movement, and illusion - this is what the ego’s eyes perceive. The changeless, by contrast, is the realm of truth, the eternal, and the unchanging reality that lies beyond appearances.

The ego’s perception focuses entirely on the changeful, and overlooks the changeless. It fixates on the shifting forms of the world, including the much loved face that appears in the mirror, reinforcing the illusion that this here is all there is. This deeply entrenched survival mechanism is what makes it so challenging to turn our attention away from the transient and toward the timeless.

The work, I suggest, is to mindfully practice looking at the illusion of the changeful as if it simply doesn't exist, in order to facilitate recognizing the changeless. All this here is smoke and mirrors and drifting dust in the wind. This ushers in a hard-won shift in perception - an unflagging alertness to see through what the physical eyes show us. By holding in mind this new enlightened perspective until it sticks naturally, we keep ourselves permanently open to the absolute reality that lies beyond it and sits before us.

As we practice this, something profound kicks in: physical sight dims, and true vision enters. Sight, which is rooted in the ego, shows us a fragmented and temporary world. Vision, on the other hand, which is rooted in truth, illuminates the eternal wholeness that has always been present.

Well said, so simple and so difficult. 

the movement that occurs is relative. Relative means not real absolutely, but real in relation to a reference. From a broader vision, so broad that it has no limits, there are no references, and therefore there is no movement. Without movement absolute reality manifests itself. The movement is the door that closes, since it only allows us to see the movement, or form, since both are equivalent, relative.

In a moment you acquire the ability to change perspective at will, since you can open your mind by erasing its limits. In a mind without limits there are no references, therefore the absolute manifests itself

[gettoefl]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well said, so simple and so difficult. 

the movement that occurs is relative. Relative means not real absolutely, but real in relation to a reference. From a broader vision, so broad that it has no limits, there are no references, and therefore there is no movement. Without movement absolute reality manifests itself. The movement is the door that closes, since it only allows us to see the movement, or form, since both are equivalent, relative.

In a moment you acquire the ability to change perspective at will, since you can open your mind by erasing its limits. In a mind without limits there are no references, therefore the absolute manifests itself

Couldn't agree more!

[CoolDreamThanks]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

In every moment, there exists both the changeful and the changeless. The changeful is the realm of form, movement, and illusion - this is what the ego’s eyes perceive. The changeless, by contrast, is the realm of truth, the eternal, and the unchanging reality that lies beyond appearances.

The ego’s perception focuses entirely on the changeful, and overlooks the changeless. It fixates on the shifting forms of the world, including the much loved face that appears in the mirror, reinforcing the illusion that this here is all there is. This deeply entrenched survival mechanism is what makes it so challenging to turn our attention away from the transient and toward the timeless.

The work, I suggest, is to mindfully practice looking at the illusion of the changeful as if it simply doesn't exist, in order to facilitate recognizing the changeless. All this here is smoke and mirrors and drifting dust in the wind. This ushers in a hard-won shift in perception - an unflagging alertness to see through what the physical eyes show us. By holding in mind this new enlightened perspective until it sticks naturally, we keep ourselves permanently open to the absolute reality that lies beyond it and sits before us.

As we practice this, something profound kicks in: physical sight dims, and true vision enters. Sight, which is rooted in the ego, shows us a fragmented and temporary world. Vision, on the other hand, which is rooted in truth, illuminates the eternal wholeness that has always been present.

Beautiful! 

[Princess Arabia]

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Exactly. We really need to start diferenciating between awareness and just empty mind. Just because mind is empty doesn't necessarily mean awareness is there.

Duh! What do you think is aware of that empty mind A. W. A. R. E. N. E. S. S.

[Javfly33]

26 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Duh! What do you think is aware of that empty mind A. W. A. R. E. N. E. S. S.

@Princess Arabia It depends.

Awareness is always there, but Awareness lost in identification, creates the appearance or feeling that awareness is not there, and only the mind is there (ego-thought, creation of "I")

When there is identification with mind, you apparently become the thought. This process of identification, we call it unawareness, or lack of awareness.

Why? Because if Awareness was really there, you wouldn´t have identified with the mind in the first place. 

Edited December 14 by Javfly33

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@Princess Arabia It depends.

Awareness is always there, but Awareness lost in identification, creates the appearance or feeling that awareness is not there, and only the mind is there (ego-thought, creation of "I")

When there is identification with mind, you apparently become the thought. This process of identification, we call it unawareness, or lack of awareness.

Why? Because if Awareness was really there, you wouldn´t have identified with the mind in the first place. 

You're not getting it. Something is aware that you're identified with the mind. Depends? Have you ever not been aware of something

 Everything you're mentioning needs awareness for it even being a thing. Awareness is never lost in identification. Something is also aware of awareness being lost in identification. There is no such thing as lack of awareness. Maybe degree of awareness, but awareness can NOT be anything but aware. That's its nature. 

"If awareness was really there, you wouldn't have identified with the mind in the first place". What's noticing you have identified with the mind?..... AWARENESS..... YOU CANT ESCAPE WHO YOU ARE. There are no depends here. You have identified as a person and that's where your confusion lies. Drop the egoic mind identity, the human and the false persona, what remains is who you truly are. There are no depends here. You are, but not depending on anything. How can you be but only if.....drop all that, you are the light of awareness and there is nothing else and no others. You refuse to understand this and you will be always in mind identification if you don't drop personhood. Especially when communicating these things. No problem saying you're human and living the life etc, but understand that it doesn't exist but only within awareness. Even the human personality is being witnessed by awareness. There is no separation and not two. 

Edited December 15 by Princess Arabia