insights on genocide, gaza,veganism, evil and God.

[Majed]

People who think the genocide in gaza is evil but don’t care about the animal genocide that is happening in factory farms are hypocritical. You’re either against animal genocide and the genocide in gaza or a hypocrite. Or you can understand that God is infinite hence he is infinite experience hence what we call evil is just part of God’s infinity.

For the past couple of years i was suffering with going beyond veganism, to go beyond the vegan worldview requires understanding what is happening from an existential perspective. Most vegans are deluded by materialism, they think reality is material and in this context suffering is real. However when you understand that God is mind, you understand that suffering is imagined by God. And at the end whatever you do doesn't matter, what matters is coming to terms with evil by coming to peace with it through understanding and accepting it.

Edited November 28 by Majed

[Scholar]

4 hours ago, Majed said:

People who think the genocide in gaza is evil but don’t care about the animal genocide that is happening in factory farms are hypocritical. You’re either against animal genocide and the genocide in gaza or a hypocrite. Or you can understand that God is infinite hence he is infinite experience hence what we call evil is just part of God’s infinity.

For the past couple of years i was suffering with going beyond veganism, to go beyond the vegan worldview requires understanding what is happening from an existential perspective. Most vegans are deluded by materialism, they think reality is material and in this context suffering is real. However when you understand that God is mind, you understand that suffering is imagined by God. And at the end whatever you do doesn't matter, what matters is coming to terms with evil by coming to peace with it through understanding and accepting it.

People are not simply hypocrites, they are fundamentally not moral agents in the sense that you think of them. If you go through life questioning ethics and morality, you will very quickly realize that human beings are almost entirely shaped by their social groups. Their sense of morality is nothing but their sense of what the group deems acceptable. 

 

The story of "suffering is imagined by God" is also imagined by God. Imagination is not real, by definition, therefore everything is simply reality. There is nothing but realness. It seems to me that this story, the way you employ it, is mostly just a way for your psyche to cope with the very real suffering that exist in the very real world. Yes, it is temporary, but in the end that will not change anything. You will forget your understanding and acceptance, because only a very small part of infinity gets to be at peace.

One day you will wake up as a pig who is gassed to death, and you will not even remember you ever had any realizations about anything other than the terror and pain you will be experiencing in that moment. No amount of understanding or acceptance will change that.

 

When you seek to overcome evil by understanding and accepting it, notice how that is a pure survival construct. You want to accept evil, and ironically, you do not do so. You deny it's existence, pretending it doesnt exist (and I don't mean this in a moral sense). This is a delusion, a very human delusion, for the sake of giving you temporary peace and solace.

You cannot deny your humanity.

 

Existence is acceptance. You cannot not accept things, that is an illusion. When the pig suffers, there is a perfect acceptance of that suffering. What that means is, that the suffering will be experienced as suffering, as genuine and very real suffering. That is ultimate acceptance, and that only God is capable of.

You on the other hand are like a child trying to accept suffering by making it go away. Your way of acceptance means that you don't really suffer any longer. That you aren't bothered by it anymore. But that is no longer suffering. You have precisely not accepted suffering, you have circumvented it through dissolving certain egoic structures.

Accepting suffering is an oxymoron, because suffering is resistance, metaphysically speaking. By accepting, you kill suffering. You deem it as lesser, you destroy it's purity. And does God do that? No. That's something you do as a human.

You want to be okay with suffering, because you fear it. You want to be superhuman, beyond your nature. This is not acceptance, of course, it is avoidance. God does not need that, that is why he can birth himself into ignorance and experience suffering in it's true form.

In the end, there is nothing you need to do, but be what you are. And no matter what you will ever do, that is precisely the only thing you can do. What happened here is that, you are a human, and suffering is fundamentally self-destructive. It's very nature is a will to end it's own existence, therefore, suffering naturally does exactly that, it ceases itself. Your entire psyche has been guided by it, and this is the result.

Edited November 29 by Scholar

[DieFree]

Suffering is "imagined by God" and you are a hapless passenger, roving like a madman between Safwa and Marwa on banal animal cruelty (AKA KFC) moralism and genocide in Gaza? 

Arabs! Arabs! What have you become???? 

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

People are not simply hypocrites, they are fundamentally not moral agents in the sense that you think of them. If you go through life questioning ethics and morality, you will very quickly realize that human beings are almost entirely shaped by their social groups. Their sense of morality is nothing but their sense of what the group deems acceptable. 

 

The story of "suffering is imagined by God" is also imagined by God. Imagination is not real, by definition, therefore everything is simply reality. There is nothing but realness. It seems to me that this story, the way you employ it, is mostly just a way for your psyche to cope with the very real suffering that exist in the very real world. Yes, it is temporary, but in the end that will not change anything. You will forget your understanding and acceptance, because only a very small part of infinity gets to be at peace.

One day you will wake up as a pig who is gassed to death, and you will not even remember you ever had any realizations about anything other than the terror and pain you will be experiencing in that moment. No amount of understanding or acceptance will change that.

 

When you seek to overcome evil by understanding and accepting it, notice how that is a pure survival construct. You want to accept evil, and ironically, you do not do so. You deny it's existence, pretending it doesnt exist (and I don't mean this in a moral sense). This is a delusion, a very human delusion, for the sake of giving you temporary peace and solace.

You cannot deny your humanity.

 

Existence is acceptance. You cannot not accept things, that is an illusion. When the pig suffers, there is a perfect acceptance of that suffering. What that means is, that the suffering will be experienced as suffering, as genuine and very real suffering. That is ultimate acceptance, and that only God is capable of.

You on the other hand are like a child trying to accept suffering by making it go away. Your way of acceptance means that you don't really suffer any longer. That you aren't bothered by it anymore. But that is no longer suffering. You have precisely not accepted suffering, you have circumvented it through dissolving certain egoic structures.

Accepting suffering is an oxymoron, because suffering is resistance, metaphysically speaking. By accepting, you kill suffering. You deem it as lesser, you destroy it's purity. And does God do that? No. That's something you do as a human.

You want to be okay with suffering, because you fear it. You want to be superhuman, beyond your nature. This is not acceptance, of course, it is avoidance. God does not need that, that is why he can birth himself into ignorance and experience suffering in it's true form.

In the end, there is nothing you need to do, but be what you are. And no matter what you will ever do, that is precisely the only thing you can do. What happened here is that, you are a human, and suffering is fundamentally self-destructive. It's very nature is a will to end it's own existence, therefore, suffering naturally does exactly that, it ceases itself. Your entire psyche has been guided by it, and this is the result.

Oh my! That was a mouthpiece. Great explanation!

[BlueOak]

@Scholar

I could say they are god and their want to do something about suffering is a perfectly natural part of their existence/consciousness which has developed to this point. Easing suffering is something all humans do for themselves and many for each other; it's one of the primary things that drives human development. In this scenario acceptance of the result of that action is where acceptance comes in, not only a passive acceptance of the status quo.

Ex: You decided to reply, that was an action for a result. Instead, you could have passively accepted the reply above; both would be acceptance if you accept the result.

@All

Consciousness develops in different forms. This needs more study, the process of it, rather than accepting it at face value. The connections between forms of consciousness always needs contemplation and is the primary way we understand anything, but the collective development aspect has relatively little time devoted to it.

I am a vegan. I understand suffering is suffering.

I still kill pests in my house, and some of them suffer.

What is a pest? I defined that, or at least accepted others' definition of this. Why is it a pest? because I decided it or accepted it. This to me isn't enough, it's a poor answer, and doesn't take into account the effect pests have on others around me for example, or those I interact with. I show this to hopefully get people to think collectively.

 

Edited December 1 by BlueOak

[Ishanga]

Life is the Expression of Absolute, its Potential being played out in real time here so its a game of sorts, with Free Will access, choose how to experience Life (BEINGNESS), then go out and perform Action (Doing) and get results (Having), but nobody does it this way, the usually DO to HAVE to get some sort of sense of BEING, but it never works like that, so one continues to search (Gather/Accumulate) ppl, places and things to feel complete and whole but this is just ego and survival mode seeming different somehow, not real Spirituality in any sort of way! 

So we have what we have today, you have Normals which is ppl that go out and work and have families and live a simple sort of Survival Life, or then You have the Crazies that cannot live the Normals life and go nuts, some are in great positions of Power and use it to their own advantage, causing massive suffering to millions, they are unconscious of Reality and care only of what they want, this is very very anti Spirituality, its not close to Human Nature level, its below Animal Nature Level..

[Basman]

Its not possible or even desirable arguably to take altruism (what veganism essentially is) to its logical extreme. Many vegans when pressed with the suffering and value of non-mammalian beings like plants, insects or microorganisms either dismiss it or turn to utilitarianism, that veganism seeks to minimize harm rather than eliminate it fully. By extension of that logic they must accept a certain degree of suffering/destruction.

"Break in case of a logical dead-end: utilitarianism"