I want to leave Ukraine, but is it worth the risk?

[AION]

53 minutes ago, Nemra said:

I have been living extremely near to it for years.

You don't understand the psychological toll it has on people.

Ok let’s say god forbid a war breaks out in your country.  You, the other refugees of your country, and the refugees of your neighbors country all flee to another safe country. But the men in that safe country do the same. And you all run away to a new country. And the men in that country do the same. What do you think will happen?

 

47 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Says a guy who has ignored most of my points.

I didn't quote a part about Zelenskyi because I don't see how it is relevant to the argument I am making.

Although Zelenskyy is the cause of the war. He doesn’t run away. And if he is a man he will do the necessary steps to establish peace. Which part of that you want clarification about?

Edited November 28 by AION

[Something Funny]

8 minutes ago, AION said:

Although Zelenskyy is the cause of the war. He doesn’t run away. And if he is a man he will do the necessary steps to establish peace. Which part of that you want clarification about?

I didn't ask for a clarification.I am saying that this has nothing to do with your argument about duty.

I also don't agree that Zelenskyi is the cause of war, this is just your nutjob opinion, but that's not the point..

 

[Nemra]

4 minutes ago, AION said:

Ok let’s say god forbid a war breaks out in your country.  You, the other refugees of your country, and the refugees of your neighbors country all flee to another safe country. But the men in that safe country do the same. And you all run away to a new country. And the men in that country do the same. What do you think will happen?

In the past maybe you couldn't run away, and now you can. Not running away isn't good either.

Are the people in the safe country being attacked? No.

It depends on when the world gets in a dire situation.

And also, this depends on your values and development.

If you are a liberal, you won't like living in a more corrupt and conservative country.

If you aren't nationalistic, then you won't care.

[AION]

30 minutes ago, Nemra said:

In the past maybe you couldn't run away, and now you can. Not running away isn't good either.

Are the people in the safe country being attacked? No.

It depends on when the world gets in a dire situation.

And also, this depends on your values and development.

If you are a liberal, you won't like living in a more corrupt and conservative country.

If you aren't nationalistic, then you won't care.

What makes a safe country a safe country? There are men who are willing to stand their ground. 

A safe country is not an arbitrary thing. Like poof, the US is a safe country. 💨 

If everybody ran away from their responsibilities, the world would be a jungle. That is what would happen. 

And some people say that if everybody ran away from responsibility the world would be a safe place. I don’t even know how to respond to that. I’ve tried to answer some thought provoking questions.😭

 

Edited November 28 by AION

[Nemra]

@AION, I see that you are great at gaslighting.

No one said here to not have people defend the country by enrolling in the military.

You are living in a relatively safe country while preaching others to fight who live in or near a warzone, regardless of their situation. Think about that.

Now, you can say that until you have some experience, and then you'll throw your moralizations out of the window. You are kidding yourself if you think you aren't or won't be afraid of war.

Edited November 28 by Nemra

[Nemra]

@AION, I was just responding to your gross generalizations. But let's agree to disagree.

[WritingHands]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If the risk of leaving is 60/40, that is not good odds. You are better off staying. Don't gamble your life on a coin flip. Especially as the situation could change dramatically in 6 months.

Your current situation doesn't seem too bad. Remember, things could get much worse for you if you do something risky.

But you can plan to leave if there is a ceasefire. Be careful because a ceasefire might be temporary. Putin could easily re-invade, so use that opportunity to leave if it comes.

How exactly is this risky? Things are gonna get worse here and hell I might die in it cuz Im a agoraphobic jobless misanthropic neet.

There might be war during winter here. I'd get away elsewhere if I was able to.

 

[WritingHands]

1 hour ago, AION said:

 

If everybody ran away from their responsibilities, the world would be a jungle. That is what would happen. 

And some people say that if everybody ran away from responsibility the world would be a safe place. I don’t even know how to respond to that. I’ve tried to answer some thought provoking questions.

 

I do that

[Spiral Wizard]

3 hours ago, AION said:

Ok let’s say god forbid a war breaks out in your country.  You, the other refugees of your country, and the refugees of your neighbors country all flee to another safe country. But the men in that safe country do the same. And you all run away to a new country. And the men in that country do the same. What do you think will happen?

 

Although Zelenskyy is the cause of the war. He doesn’t run away. And if he is a man he will do the necessary steps to establish peace. Which part of that you want clarification about?

@AION you're making some interesting points. I haven't thought about it like this. 

If I were in the Ukraine I would have probably fled as a refugee on day one because I don't feel an obligation to my country. That being said, I appreciate your perspective. It definitely adds to my understanding.

You raised the US as an example. I personally don't feel safe in the US exactly because it's a super power. Same goes for the capital of Germany: Berlin. If there ever was an nuclear attack, big cities of major countries would be the first to be targeted.

I feel safest in countries that are far off, which are of little interested to the global super powers, countries in South America, South East Asia, etc. for example. 

Note that these countries usually do not have strong militaries.

Also, if everyone escaped the Ukraine, I doubt Russia would keep crusading, taking over the next country. There are particular reasons they are attacking the Ukrainian.

What's your perspective on that?

[Raze]

8 hours ago, AION said:

It is not my country

Doesn’t matter, plenty of people defend countries that aren’t there’s.

If you don’t want to go ask yourself why those reasons shouldn’t apply to someone who lives there.

[Hardkill]

21 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

If you can hold out a few months, Trump says he is going to end the Ukraine war.  The inauguration is January 20, 2025.   Gonzalo Lira tried to escape over the Ukraine border.  He was caught and ended up in prison where he died. 

You really are so naive, aren’t you? You actually believe that Trump is going to put an end to the war himself?

Only, Russia and Ukraine will decide when the war will end.

[AION]

4 hours ago, Spiral Wizard said:

@AION you're making some interesting points. I haven't thought about it like this. 

If I were in the Ukraine I would have probably fled as a refugee on day one because I don't feel an obligation to my country. That being said, I appreciate your perspective. It definitely adds to my understanding.

You raised the US as an example. I personally don't feel safe in the US exactly because it's a super power. Same goes for the capital of Germany: Berlin. If there ever was an nuclear attack, big cities of major countries would be the first to be targeted.

I feel safest in countries that are far off, which are of little interested to the global super powers, countries in South America, South East Asia, etc. for example. 

Note that these countries usually do not have strong militaries.

Also, if everyone escaped the Ukraine, I doubt Russia would keep crusading, taking over the next country. There are particular reasons they are attacking the Ukrainian.

What's your perspective on that?

If a country is safe it is because there are men that put their ass on the line and are willing to die to serve and protect the ones they love.

You will only fight for what you love and love for what you are willing to fight for. So as a man you have to ask yourself, am I willing to fight for what I love or will I just pack my bag and go to a country where there are men who are willing to protect me? Because if you don't protect yourself, you are looking for a country with men who will do it for you.

So it doesn't matter if it is Russia or another country. There will always hostile people out there who have eyes on your wealth and women. I believe Russia is out to conquer more countries but that is just my opinion but it doesn't change what I said about safety.

Safety is not a given like some people are talking about it here. The modus operandi is no safety. Human kind has only known world wide peace since WW2, before WW2 humankind was in continuous war with each other.

 

Edited November 28 by AION

[Karmadhi]

On 27/11/2024 at 7:39 PM, porque said:

The large-scale war has been a part of my life for almost three years now, and I’m starting to feel like I’ve had enough of it. I’m looking for ways to leave the country.

Right now, the only options are: to pay a huge bribe to get my documents fixed so I can cross the border, or to find shady people involved in human trafficking across the border. Both options are extremely risky. If I get caught, I’d go straight to the frontline.

I have a cool apartment and a well-paid job aligned with my life purpose. But society here is filled with anger, despair, and pain. We have a curfew, drones and rockets attack the city every other night, and recruitment patrols walk around constantly, so I don’t feel free at all. I don’t feel like I’m meant to live here, but the risks of leaving the country hold me back, leaving me to wait and see how the conflict unfolds.

The problem is, I have no idea when the war will end, and I don’t want to spend all of my 30s in a country at war.

What would you do?

Where in Ukraine do you live? Unless there is a high chance of the front coming to where you live, I would stick it out for a bit longer.

Trump will come to office, and there is a good chance it will lead to the war ending or at least a long ceasefire.

Perhaps you can leave then.

If you held on for 3 years you can handle a few more months.

[porque]

10 hours ago, AION said:

You will only fight for what you love and love for what you are willing to fight for. So as a man you have to ask yourself, am I willing to fight for what I love or will I just pack my bag and go to a country where there are men who are willing to protect me? Because if you don't protect yourself, you are looking for a country with men who will do it for you.

Would you want to defend a country where a drunk judge kills someone in a car accident and, after a few months, is released from jail like nothing happened?
Would you defend a country where, every day, you see posts about corrupt politicians making millions from the war, buying villas in Spain, and sending their sons abroad?
Imagine volunteering, and on your first mission, your incompetent captain orders you to capture a territory that can't be taken, leading to your death. Stupid deaths in the army happen all the time.
Would you want to live among people who watch videos of human bodies being blown apart, with pieces of flesh flying in all directions, and actually laugh and cheer because it’s the enemy?
Our government allowed women to cross the border, and as a result, hundreds of thousands of families were ruined. Where is justice in that? How can I love a country like this?

You know nothing about how to live here.

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, porque said:

Would you want to defend a country where a drunk judge kills someone in a car accident and, after a few months, is released from jail like nothing happened?

 

I am not familiar with this story, can you expand more?

[porque]

@Hardkill It doesn’t seem like Trump has any significant leverage over putin, but he does over Zelenskyy. The ceasefire wouldn't happen because Trump convinces putin but because Ukraine might agree to a losing peace deal. The ceasefire could last during Trump’s time in office, but I’m not sure our government would let men leave the country. If they did, a lot of men will leave, which will leave Ukraine very underpopulated and an easy target. 

[AION]

@porque war is a dirty business. Doesn't matter if it is in the Ukrainian army or US army or somewhere else. If there is corruption that need to be fixed but I don't get why you resent women and children leaving a war zone.

Edited November 29 by AION

[porque]

@Yimpa  If you are interested, you can find more information and similar cases here https://hromadske.ua/posts/suddi-kermo-alkogol-chi-realno-pokarati-slug-femidi-za-pyani-dtp

[Jodistrict]

20 hours ago, Hardkill said:

You really are so naive, aren’t you? You actually believe that Trump is going to put an end to the war himself?

Only, Russia and Ukraine will decide when the war will end.

How is Ukraine going to fight without  US weapons and money?  Even Zelensky has admitted they need US support.    It is now possible to end the war because both Putin and Trump are willing to negotiate.  The democrats and their neocons want a continued war to wear down Russian and are willing to fight to the last Ukrainian  This is an immoral position.  With Kamala Harris there would have been no hope of peace and the slaughter would continue.  Trump is a sharp policy change and gives real hope of a ceasefire.

Edited November 29 by Jodistrict

[nerdspeak]

Most of my Ukrainian friends have gone back