Logic Is Part And Parcel To Enlightenment

[Russell Parr]

18 hours ago, Ayla said:

I would replace logic with maturity. Logic can be so dependent on intellect level, etc.. You can also use self-honesty as a better concept. 

Maturity, responsability and clarity are the only ways one can see truth from shit. Now it remains to be seen how much self-honesty goes around its tail like this... Your mind will never be able to discern truth, but somehow You will know truth once you are being VERY VERY honest with yourself

Maturity, responsibility, clarity are indeed key, but without logic, there is no knowledge. Logic is what holds knowledge together, and makes it coherent.

 

15 hours ago, SOUL said:

Thinking and believing one knows the truth is a delusion.

Is this a truthful statement?

 

14 hours ago, Dingus said:

@Russell Parr You are trying to derive the absolute from the relative.

It just doesn't hold up.

You're trying to uphold consciousness, a thing, which only exists when perceived, as the absolute. It just doesn't hold up.

Emptiness simply reveals the ultimate truth about existence. Don't get hung up on it.

[SOUL]

40 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

Is this a truthful statement?

[Prabhaker]

58 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

but without logic, there is no knowledge

All knowledge of enlightenment, mysticism is without logic that's why it is not recognized by science , mainstream society.

On 5/10/2017 at 0:03 AM, Russell Parr said:

On 5/9/2017 at 5:51 AM, Prabhaker said:

Why do you believe this ?

Because it's in the name. Enlighten - lighten, to overcome darkness, delusion; to gain insight, to enable consciousness to be the crystal clear light it is intended to be

The Enlightenment is the period in the history of western thought and culture, stretching roughly from the mid-decades of the seventeenth century through the eighteenth century, characterized by dramatic revolutions in science, philosophy, society and politics. 

What enlightenment you are talking about ? There is no evidence of type of enlightenment you are describing, ever happened in any human being, it is a myth propagated by some delusioned so called spiritualists, it is a big business these days.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Prabhaker
a spelling mistake

[Russell Parr]

32 minutes ago, SOUL said:

 

28 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

All knowledge of enlightenment, mysticism is without logic that's why it is not recognized by science , mainstream society.

How can knowledge be without logic? Can you give me an example?

I'm not really into mysticism.

29 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

What enlightenment you are talking about ? There is no evidence of type of enlightenment you are describing, ever happened in any human being, it is a myth propagated by some delusioned so called spiritualists, it is a big business these days.

Enlightenment can't be measured any more than any thought can. It can only be determined by logical inquiry.

What is enlightenment to you? Do you find any value in it or the idea of it?

[Prabhaker]

2 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

Enlightenment can't be measured any more than any thought can.

The enlightenment you are describing never happens, so it can't be measured. 

3 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

It can only be determined by logical inquiry.

Nobody has ever determined it.

4 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

What is enlightenment to you?

The Enlightenment is the period in the history of western thought and culture, stretching roughly from the mid-decades of the seventeenth century through the eighteenth century, characterized by dramatic revolutions in science, philosophy, society and politics. 

5 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

Do you find any value in it or the idea of it?

Spiritual enlightenment , though it is non-existent, has a value. If you learn to talk about it cleverly, you can do good business by becoming a spiritual teacher.

[Prabhaker]

On 5/6/2017 at 8:11 AM, Russell Parr said:

"Logic can't help you." This is why I started this thread.

Logic can help. It helps in debunking myth of spiritual enlightenment. 

[Russell Parr]

The old "there is no enlightenment" spiritual teaching. Nice  

[Prabhaker]

2 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

The old "there is no enlightenment" spiritual teaching. Nice  

"there is no enlightenment" is a valuable spiritual teaching, it can save people from wasting their life, and can help gullible people from unnecessary trouble and suffering.

[Russell Parr]

16 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

"there is no enlightenment" is a valuable spiritual teaching, it can save people from wasting their life, and can help gullible people from unnecessary trouble and suffering.

It is only valuable for those that are already on the spiritual path, in pursuit of enlightenment. The rest, on the other hand, need convincing of its existence.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Russell Parr

[Prabhaker]

Just now, Russell Parr said:

It is only valuable for those that are already on the spiritual path

I live in India, I have seen hundreds of people on the spiritual path, nobody has ever reached enlightenment. Nobody on this forum is reported that he is enlightened. We all know the deeds of so called enlightened masters, some of them are in jail for their crimes.

[Prabhaker]

@Russell Parr

ONCE AGAIN Swami nityananda and Ranjitha romance video is out

Swami Nithyananda says his body is not 'capable of indulging in a sexual act'

 

[Russell Parr]

@Prabhaker Only nature is perfect. Enlightenment doesn't entail a complete, permanent absence of the ego, but of a wisdom that is absent of delusion. 

[Prabhaker]

Just now, Russell Parr said:

Enlightenment doesn't entail a complete, permanent absence of the ego, but of a wisdom that is absent of delusion. 

Who told you ?

[Russell Parr]

11 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Who told you ?

Experience.

Who told you what enlightenment is?

[SOUL]

Is it any surprise the mind is under the ideological delusion that removing ideological delusion is the way to spiritual awakening?

Spiritual awakening isn't just transcending the "false" in our mind, it's transcending all of it, including the "truth" in our mind.

What confounds the mind about spiritual awakening is that it's not a process of the mind, it's transcending the processes of the mind.

[Prabhaker]

5 hours ago, Russell Parr said:

Experience.

Your personal experience, are you enlightened ? 

5 hours ago, Russell Parr said:

Who told you what enlightenment is?

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Encyclopedia Britannica

Edited May 15, 2017 by Prabhaker

[Natasha]

10 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

"there is no enlightenment" is a valuable spiritual teaching, it can save people from wasting their life, and can help gullible people from unnecessary trouble and suffering.

If Leo would've read this 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Natasha

[Prabhaker]

23 minutes ago, Natasha said:

If Leo would've read this

Read my posts from the beginning of thread to understand the context. 

[Natasha]

@Prabhaker I see. 'Enlightenment' is just a term, a label. There are more enlightened/awakened people around than one might think (even on this site), they just won't reveal it.

If you have shifted to dis-illusionment of who 'you' are (self-realization) and there is permanence to that realization, that's IT. It could happen to anyone anytime, with or without meditating even...from a yogi to a drunk on the way home from a pub. It's unpredictable, sudden, simple, yet profound. After the initial seeing, there is usually a process of deepening that can take the remainder of one's lifespan. 

Self-inquiry is a good way to help trigger the shift (there is logic involved in self-inquiry, btw). I had mine while doing a guided self-inquiry meditation in one of Leo's Enlightenment videos. Life just went on as usual afterwards. Before chop wood, carry water...

It's also true when they say that once it happens, you just know. 

Peace

 

  

Edited May 15, 2017 by Natasha

[SOUL]

There are plenty of people who position themselves as teachers but instead of clarifying it they obscure what is actually quite simple in an effort to sustain their status.

This can lead many who are seeking liberation from their self imposed suffering to be even more disillusioned and they may eventually become embittered and doubtful.

Then some of these disillusioned ones may try to coddle their own suffering minds by dissuading and distracting others from seeking what they themselves do not have.

If they weren't suffering and instead were fulfilled in their life they wouldn't seek to discourage anyone else from seeking it for themselves regardless of the way it is found.