Logic Is Part And Parcel To Enlightenment

[Russell Parr]

@SOUL If there are no incorrect thoughts then how are you to disagree with me?

[SOUL]

@Russell Parr

I didn't say there are no incorrect thoughts, I just said I don't think it.

Our thoughts....or emotions aren't responsible for enlightenment.

Logic is just the way the mind frames it's ideas and concepts in a paradigm that it views as coherent.

A person will psychologically trust their mind's paradigm and believe it to be "true".

This isn't spiritual enlightenment any more or less than emotional outpourings are responsible for it.

Thoughts and emotions may lead us to an idea of enlightenment or away from it but regardless it still cannot be it.

Awareness is responsible for spiritual enlightenment, exercising our awareness to be present is what spiritual enlightenment is.

[Dodo]

37 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

@SOUL If there are no incorrect thoughts then how are you to disagree with me?

Here are the options:

1) Be silent

2) Agree

3) Disagree

Now you see how it is possible that someone disagrees with what you are saying.

[SOUL]

3 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

Here are the options:

1) Be silent

2) Agree

3) Disagree

Now you see how it is possible that someone disagrees with what you are saying.

There is another option, speak our peace and let it be what it will be.

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, SOUL said:

There is another option, speak our peace and let it be what it will be.

There's also option to ask a question (man, there are so many hidden options!):

5) With whom am I disagreeing? Have you checked that one, is it there? As whom are you speaking? Eh? @Russell Parr

Edited May 9, 2017 by Dodoster

[SOUL]

Just now, Dodoster said:

There's also option to ask a question (man, there are so many hidden options!):

With whom am I disagreeing? Have you checked that one, is it there? As whom are you speaking? Eh? @Russell Parr

Undoubtedly there are infinite options since there is infinite potential, I just offered the one I exercise.

[Dodo]

Just now, SOUL said:

Undoubtedly there are infinite options since there is infinite potential, I just offered the one I exercise.

All paths are valid!

[Russell Parr]

4 minutes ago, SOUL said:

I didn't say there are no incorrect thoughts, I just said I don't think it.

You don't think it.. "it" being what exactly? That there are incorrect thoughts?

7 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Logic is just the way the mind frames it's ideas and concepts in a paradigm that it views as coherent.

A person will psychologically trust their mind's paradigm and believe it to be "true".

Ok, good so far.

16 minutes ago, SOUL said:

This isn't spiritual enlightenment any more or less than emotional outpourings are responsible for it.

Thoughts and emotions may lead us to an idea of enlightenment or away from it but regardless it still cannot be it.

Enlightenment is the awakening of consciousness from delusional thoughts and perspectives. It is the transformation from one way of thinking to another. You don't just give up thought due to enlightenment.

But yes, thoughts and emotions aren't enlightenment in the sense that they are different things than enlightenment.

23 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Awareness is responsible for spiritual enlightenment, exercising our awareness to be present is what spiritual enlightenment is.

Awareness is not enough. If one does not accumulate the adequate wisdom required for enlightenment or doesn't do enough to fully assimilate such wisdom, enlightenment cannot be had or sustained.

[SOUL]

Just now, Dodoster said:

All paths are valid!

Paths to enlightenment isn't enlightenment itself, it seems that is the point lost on people seeking paths to enlightenment.

Our paths don't equate to spiritual enlightenment, our spiritual path is as individual as there are individuals to be on a spiritual path.

What is often called 'presence', us being aware of being in the present moment, is what happens when we leave behind our paths.

[Russell Parr]

8 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

All paths are valid!

Oh BS You wouldn't be here if you believed that.

[Russell Parr]

Causality as is appears to consciousness is dualistic, while ultimately, it is infinite. 

Who told you I lapped it up uncritically? 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Russell Parr

[SOUL]

4 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

You don't think it.. "it" being what exactly? That there are incorrect thoughts?

Yup.

5 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

Awareness is not enough. If one does not accumulate the adequate wisdom required for enlightenment or doesn't do enough to fully assimilate such wisdom, enlightenment cannot be had or sustained.

5 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

Enlightenment is the awakening of consciousness from delusional thoughts and perspectives. It is the transformation from one way of thinking to another. You don't just give up thought due to enlightenment.

But yes, thoughts and emotions aren't enlightenment in the sense that they are different things than enlightenment.

Awareness is all that is needed, I don't need anything else to awaken or enlighten consciousness.

Your idea that enlightenment cannot be had or sustained without your logic and wisdom is why you cannot have or sustain enlightenment.

Have you considered it is thoughts and perspectives about logic you are believing that prevents you from simply exercising your awareness to be present in realizing enlightenment?

Your own words explain it clearly how your ideas and concepts are the stumbling blocks.

 

 

[Russell Parr]

5 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Yup.

So there are incorrect thoughts, you just don't think about incorrect thoughts... right?

On that note, do you think at all?

13 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Awareness is all that is needed, I don't need anything else to awaken or enlighten consciousness.

Your idea that enlightenment cannot be had or sustained without your logic and wisdom is why you cannot have or sustain enlightenment.

Have you considered it is thoughts and perspectives about logic you are believing that prevents you from simply exercising your awareness to be present in realizing enlightenment?

Your own words explain it clearly how your ideas and concepts are the stumbling blocks.

Is an Amoeba is enlightened?

[Emerald]

Logic is the primary measuring tool of the human lens, and it is an important part of our functioning as a human being. It's an amazing tool that humans have at our disposal which is our greatest strength and our greatest weakness as a species. But to believe that enlightenment has to do with logic in a direct way, is to make a big mistake. Logic is a thinking-based function, and enlightenment is something that occurs that reaches beyond the scope of thinking. It's the same mistake that many believe that "I think, therefore I am." Many people believe that they are their thoughts and forget the infinite nature of their being. So, thought is really only one small facet of what we actually are. The only relationship thought shares with enlightenment is if one has the ability to disidentify with thoughts and become aware of the self beyond thought. So, logic and enlightenment are quite different. Think of logic like you phone and enlightenment like your house. You may be addicted to your phone and be on it non-stop. But if you put your phone down, you realize there's a much larger reality that you live within (the reality of the house). You've always been in the house, but you're so distracted by the usefulness and busy-ness of your phone that you forget where you are. 

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Russell Parr said:

So there are incorrect thoughts, you just don't think about incorrect thoughts... right?

On that note, do you think at all?

Is an Amoeba is enlightened?

 Thinking that there are correct or incorrect thoughts is just dualism mindset which I have no use for.

With spirituality it is so subjective that it is impossible to determine with that type of thinking.

In my experience I could see blue and someone else sees red, I could see up and another sees down with both of us awakening and enlightening our consciousness.

Since it is not dependent on ideas and concepts we are thinking about or our emotional associations with them that awakens and enlightens our consciousness this is possible.

I have a fulfilled and intellectual emotions experience but that is a result of awakening and enlightening my consciousness, it doesn't contribute to it being that way.

Can an amoeba be endarkened?

Edited May 9, 2017 by SOUL

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Russell Parr said:

Oh BS You wouldn't be here if you believed that.

If who believed that? Why are you making this into something personal ?? Do you not understand that you are the presence and not a thinking entity? Who are you arguing with? There is no path for what we're talking about. But as far as paths are concerned, they are all allowed to be.

If you wanna be hitler, you be hitler. But if you want to be yourself, be presence! I bet you've heard that, but you're still in that mind mode I sense!! How to let go of your burning desire to say how you are right and the other is wrong? By seeing there is no you to be right. Allowing all paths to be valid is the best way to live in harmony with the people around you! Otherwise you keep on attacking them with your points of views and your perceived truths!

 

[Russell Parr]

17 hours ago, Dingus said:

Or maybe that's just a belief with no external counterpart and no justification, other than appearances.

What would you say to this: http://www.wisefoolpress.com/the-whole-truth/

It takes just a bit of logical deduction to see that causality is infinite, meaning, there's no possible part of reality that isn't utterly permeated with it.

"I am" is a truth but not a very useful one. It does nothing to reveal the illusory nature of self existence, for example.

17 hours ago, Dingus said:

So I'll speak for myself then. I initially accepted his version when I first encountered it because it's basically just a rephrasing of the buddhist emptiness philosophy. And I was stuck on the "emptiness view" for a number of years, as are most of its adherents. I even asked David on his blog about some doubts I had, see the comment section here (I'm Mark):

http://geniusrealms.com/blogosphere/?p=535

Interestingly that was the last I ever heard of him even though he said he would address my questions in an upcoming blog post. And I have not been able to find anything written by him after this exchange. Any idea what happened to him? I'm amused to think that maybe he became enlightened while contemplating my questions and decided that he had been wrong all along.

I don't see anything there that would change his mind. We can discuss your concerns here or you can try contacting David, he's been around the forum a bit more lately.

[Russell Parr]

23 hours ago, Emerald said:

Logic is the primary measuring tool of the human lens, and it is an important part of our functioning as a human being. It's an amazing tool that humans have at our disposal which is our greatest strength and our greatest weakness as a species. But to believe that enlightenment has to do with logic in a direct way, is to make a big mistake. Logic is a thinking-based function, and enlightenment is something that occurs that reaches beyond the scope of thinking. It's the same mistake that many believe that "I think, therefore I am." Many people believe that they are their thoughts and forget the infinite nature of their being. So, thought is really only one small facet of what we actually are. The only relationship thought shares with enlightenment is if one has the ability to disidentify with thoughts and become aware of the self beyond thought. So, logic and enlightenment are quite different. Think of logic like you phone and enlightenment like your house. You may be addicted to your phone and be on it non-stop. But if you put your phone down, you realize there's a much larger reality that you live within (the reality of the house). You've always been in the house, but you're so distracted by the usefulness and busy-ness of your phone that you forget where you are. 

Hi Emerald,

While logic and enlightenment are not the same, logic remains a fundamental part of consciousness. We use it any time we think. In terms of enlightenment, logic is both a tool used to attain it, as well as an attribute that describes the mind of the enlightened.

Enlightenment is not about disidentifying. It doesn't create dichotomies between the self and thoughts. It merely the taking of the whole of reality, ourselves including, into consideration and seeing it for what it is.

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

Hi Emerald,

While logic and enlightenment are not the same, logic remains a fundamental part of consciousness. We use it any time we think. In terms of enlightenment, logic is both a tool used to attain it, as well as an attribute that describes the mind of the enlightened.

Enlightenment is not about disidentifying. It doesn't create dichotomies between the self and thoughts. It merely the taking of the whole of reality, ourselves including, into consideration and seeing it for what it is.

Enlightenment is about disidentifying. Who would you be without your neural pathways? Without your identity generated from thoughts you've learned. Anything based on thoughts is built with clouds. The stripping away of identities is the way to Enlightenment and logic can be used to see that this is true. 

If you are highly logical you can see how the stripping away of thought based identity is a good thing if you want to discover truth and not something built on clouds (thoughts). No thought is real. Wow.

Literally exactly like books are not the things the books are talking about. There's a difference between reading something and experiencing it, between thinking about who you truly are and experiencing who you truly are. The experiencing of who you truly are happens by peeling layers of identities which you are not and seeing what remains. And what that one has observed..

Edited May 10, 2017 by Dodoster

[Russell Parr]

23 hours ago, SOUL said:

Thinking that there are correct or incorrect thoughts is just dualism mindset which I have no use for.

Are you saying that you have no use for any dualistic mindset?

23 hours ago, SOUL said:

I have a fulfilled and intellectual emotions experience but that is a result of awakening and enlightening my consciousness, it doesn't contribute to it being that way.

Does logic has anything to do with your intellectual experience?

23 hours ago, SOUL said:

Can an amoeba be endarkened?

No, because enlightenment, as I understand it, does not apply to it.