Logic Is Part And Parcel To Enlightenment

[WelcometoReality]

19 hours ago, Russell Parr said:

Be careful not to decry logic. It is an essential ingredient to enlightenment.

Care to explain how one can use logic to get enlightened?

[123456789]

2 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Care to explain how one can use logic to get enlightened?

@WelcometoReality Ever heard of Vedanta?

 

[WelcometoReality]

@Lenny I've heard the word but no I don't know the meaning or practice.

[123456789]

@WelcometoReality Vedanta is a teaching, a very logical teaching.

Edit: just in case your'e interested in learning more about Vedanta

Edited May 4, 2017 by Lenny

[Russell Parr]

4 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Care to explain how one can use logic to get enlightened?

Sure. Let's use the logic of cause and effect. 

A thing is caused by that which isn't that thing, therefore all things are causally related. This refers not only linear, billiard ball type causation, but circumstantial and environmental causation as well. For example, a tree is not only caused by the sunlight and water it receives, but also the temperature of the air around it, the nutrients present in the soil, the lack of threat to its existence, and so on.

This goes for any and everything that does, has, and could possibly exist. 

From here we can address free will. The principle of causality exposes that free will is essentially an illusion of experience. Since we, as conscious beings, are at the front seat of experience, and due to the biological drive to survive, we necessarily experience free will. But since all things are caused, including all of our thoughts and actions, free will actually isn't free at all. It is the product of infinite causality, just the same as the wind blowing through the trees is a product of causality.

This goes for life and death as well. The duality of life and death is nothing more than conceptual; an idea used and applied for practical purposes for the sake of our consciousness.

And finally, this goes for existence itself. Existence is a dualistic concept, used by consciousness to demarcate Infinite reality into usable bits, all due to and in accordance with causality. Now we have reached the void of non-duality, or emptiness. This is the final realization that awakens one to full enlightenment. Here it is realized that things have no ultimate existence, and that existence is equivalent to appearance. Hence the ancient Zen quote:

Quote

At first, I saw mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers. Then, I saw mountains were not mountains and rivers were not rivers. Finally, I see mountains again as mountains, and rivers again as rivers.

Here you have the full process, step by step, to reach enlightenment, using the logic of cause and effect. Of course, while enlightenment may not be all that complicated, it certainly, and obviously, isn't easy to attain. This is because the ego is a very strong force. It "needs" us to believe in free will. It "needs" us to believe in life and death. It "needs" us to believe in existence. The pursuit of enlightenment requires great persistence in order to overcome the habitual thoughts and patterns of the ego, in order to mentally transcend its influence. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Russell Parr

[Russell Parr]

9 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

There is no God in the first place, you talk about logic, and talk so illogically ! What is God ?

To me, God = Tao = the Infinite.

[Russell Parr]

9 hours ago, SOUL said:

Juggling ideas and concepts in paradigms of the mind isn't enlightenment.

Illuminating awareness in the present moment is enlightenment.

Enjoy your logic, I'll enjoy being aware now.

The type of enlightenment you seem to be a proponent of has no practical use other than when sitting at home staring at the wall. 

[Prabhaker]

Just now, Russell Parr said:

God = Tao = the Infinite

All are fiction, God is the greatest lie you can ever find.

[Russell Parr]

@Prabhaker I'll agree with you, depending on your context.

[Prabhaker]

Just now, Russell Parr said:

depending on your context

In every context it is a lie. God is the greatest lie man has invented. What ever is not in your hand you leave it on big daddy(God), Simply because you need some one for satisfaction and this way no one has been independent. So God is the basic lie, now to protect this lie thousand of lies are spoken in different forms.

14 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

The pursuit of enlightenment requires great persistence

Enlightenment can be a hallucination at the most, many people waste their life in pursuit of hallucination, they are sometimes treated very badly by mainstream society.

[Russell Parr]

7 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

In every context it is a lie. God is the greatest lie man has invented. What ever is not in your hand you leave it on big daddy(God), Simply because you need some one for satisfaction and this way no one has been independent. So God is the basic lie, now to protect this lie thousand of lies are spoken in different forms.

What about the Pantheistic interpretation of God?

8 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Enlightenment can be a hallucination at the most, many people waste their life in pursuit of hallucination, they are sometimes treated very badly by mainstream society.

What is your favored solution to the existential suffering experienced by a great many people in the world?

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Russell Parr said:

What about the Pantheistic interpretation of God?

Pantheism is the belief that all reality is identical with divinity, or that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent god. No scientist will ever agree with this nonsense.

3 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

What is your favored solution to the existential suffering experienced by a great many people in the world?

They need a good psychiatrist. 

[Russell Parr]

9 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Pantheism is the belief that all reality is identical with divinity, or that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent god. No scientist will ever agree with this nonsense.

Hardly a scientist has ever attained enlightenment. Their thinking is too materialistic.

9 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

They need a good psychiatrist. 

Preferably an enlightened one  

Edited May 4, 2017 by Russell Parr

[Prabhaker]

Just now, Russell Parr said:

Hardly a scientist has ever attained enlightenment. Their thinking is too materialistic.

They think logically, their is no enlightenment, may be some people suffer from psychosis. 

4 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

Hopefully an enlightened one

Psychiatrists can treat any enlightened person and bring him back to normal life.

[FindingPeace]

I don't really think that logic is at the heart of enlightenment. Logic relies on a set of rules. That would imply that the enlightened mind works in accordance with a set of rules. This set of logical rules would seem to me to be a belief system.

Enlightenment is not a belief system. The enlightened mind is not a robot. If anything, the enlightened mind works on less belief, less logic and more with 'what is'. With truth.

Truth and logic are not related. Logic is entirely an arbitrary ruleset. A subjective one at that.

[Russell Parr]

Just now, Prabhaker said:

Psychiatrists can treat any enlightened person and bring him back to normal life.

How horrific.

[Prabhaker]

Just now, Russell Parr said:

How horrific

Is providing medical help horrific ?

[Russell Parr]

1 minute ago, FindingPeace said:

I don't really think that logic is at the heart of enlightenment. Logic relies on a set of rules. That would imply that the enlightened mind works in accordance with a set of rules. This set of logical rules would seem to me to be a belief system.

Hello FindingPeace,

It is the other way around. Rules are reliant on logic. The enlightened mind does not follow rules, but is in congruence with reality. If an enlightened sage makes rules, they will be logical.

6 minutes ago, FindingPeace said:

Enlightenment is not a belief system. The enlightened mind is not a robot. If anything, the enlightened mind works on less belief, less logic and more with 'what is'. With truth.

Yes, enlightenment is not a system. The enlightened mind does not work on logic, but with logic. Only with logic can one accurately know 'what is'. Only with logic can one find Truth.

 

[Russell Parr]

6 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Is providing medical help horrific ?

If it means retracting enlightenment, reducing one back into the realms of normalcy and averageness, that would indeed be horrific. Unfavorably at best.

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Russell Parr said:

If it means retracting enlightenment

Medical science don't recognize enlightenment, they think logically, and many people suffering from 'enlightenment' are treated in mental hospitals everywhere in the world.