Logic Is Part And Parcel To Enlightenment

[Russell Parr]

Logic is the linguistic representation of cause and effect, which is an absolute principle of reality. The enlightened mind is fully logical and unencumbered by egotism, which causes the logical processes of the mind to stutter due to a clinging to ideas, concepts, people, and things.

Be careful not to decry logic. It is an essential ingredient to enlightenment.

[Prabhaker]

@Russell Parr

Logic is a very small thing, life is vast. Logic is utilitarian, it is an invention of man. Life is non-utilitarian, it is not an invention of man; on the contrary, man is life’s invention. Logic is one-dimensional, life is multi-dimensional. 

If you want to live with things logic is enough, but that is not going to be much of a life. When you live with persons, when you relate with persons, logic is not enough at all; in fact you have to put logic aside.

Logic means mind. Mind is helpful in understanding the objective world. Mind is a hindrance in understanding the subjective world, because the subjective world is beyond the mind, behind the mind.

When somebody comes with a conclusion, then he looks through that conclusion and chooses only things which support his position. Logic is a prostitute. It can help anybody - for or against, it has no problem. if anything has to be proved by logic, it can be disproved also by logic.

Nobody has ever achieved truth through argumentation. Yes, you can defeat somebody. You can even defeat the person who may have experienced. If you are articulate enough and can bring in language and logic in your support. To win in a logical discussion is a childish game. You may not have experienced anything, yet you can be a good logician. You may not know anything at all about the truth, but you can argue well. That is a totally different quality.

[Russell Parr]

16 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Logic is a very small thing, life is vast. Logic is utilitarian, it is an invention of man. Life is non-utilitarian, it is not an invention of man; on the contrary, man is life’s invention. Logic is one-dimensional, life is multi-dimensional. 

Logic is no small thing. It is not an invention of man, but a necessary part of his consciousness. Life is simply a property of man. A temporal one, at that. Logic is not one-dimensional, it exists wherever there is inquiry and observation.

19 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

If you want to live with things logic is enough, but that is not going to be much of a life. When you live with persons, when you relate with persons, logic is not enough at all; in fact you have to put logic aside.

You cannot put logic aside. As long as you are conscious in any way, it is in action whether you are aware of it or not.

20 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Logic means mind. Mind is helpful in understanding the objective world. Mind is a hindrance in understanding the subjective world, because the subjective world is beyond the mind, behind the mind.

Subject and object go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other.

21 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

When somebody comes with a conclusion, then he looks through that conclusion and chooses only things which support his position. Logic is a prostitute. It can help anybody - for or against, it has no problem. if anything has to be proved by logic, it can be disproved also by logic.

Nobody has ever achieved truth through argumentation. Yes, you can defeat somebody. You can even defeat the person who may have experienced. If you are articulate enough and can bring in language and logic in your support. To win in a logical discussion is a childish game. You may not have experienced anything, yet you can be a good logician. You may not know anything at all about the truth, but you can argue well. That is a totally different quality.

Logic is not about winning or losing, but understanding.

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

Subject and object go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other.

I want to go a tiny bit offtopic because this is very interesting.

Nonduality is pretty logical. When the subject is isolated from objects, it disappears. Boom ego death

[Prabhaker]

Just now, Russell Parr said:

Logic is not about winning or losing, but understanding.

Logic is not the way of understanding consciousness, life. Meditation is.

3 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

Logic is no small thing.

 Aristotle, one man for two thousand years has been dictating everything in the world of science: the laws, the logic that he wrote two thousand years ago continue to be applied. Anything against Aristotle is simply unacceptable. No man in the whole history of humanity has dominated so much. A single man – and he created the whole system of logic, and science goes on following his logic.

Nature goes on its own way – it has its own laws, it has no obligation to follow Aristotle.  

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Logic is not the way of understanding consciousness, life. Meditation is.

 Aristotle, one man for two thousand years has been dictating everything in the world of science: the laws, the logic that he wrote two thousand years ago continue to be applied. Anything against Aristotle is simply unacceptable. No man in the whole history of humanity has dominated so much. A single man – and he created the whole system of logic, and science goes on following his logic.

Nature goes on its own way – it has its own laws, it has no obligation to follow Aristotle.  

Aristotle is also nature

Logic is also nature, why are you denying an aspect of yourself?  You use logic absolutely all the time. Otherwise you would be in a nut house and dangerous to yourself and others.

[123456789]

@Prabhaker

37 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Nobody has ever achieved truth through argumentation.

Argumentation, no. But what about understanding? 

[Russell Parr]

7 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Logic is not the way of understanding consciousness, life. Meditation is.

Meditation serves one purpose, and that is to quiet the ego. To be enlightened is to live in a meditative state.

 

7 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Aristotle, one man for two thousand years has been dictating everything in the world of science: the laws, the logic that he wrote two thousand years ago continue to be applied. Anything against Aristotle is simply unacceptable. No man in the whole history of humanity has dominated so much. A single man – and he created the whole system of logic, and science goes on following his logic.

Nature goes on its own way – it has its own laws, it has no obligation to follow Aristotle.

Whether Aristotle's findings or laws are valid or not, as well as whether or not everyone agrees with him, has no consequence on the importance and role of logic itself. 

Nature does indeed go its own way, and we are merely here for the ride. We are logical to the degree that we accurately understand and express Nature with our ideas and actions.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Russell Parr

[Dodo]

11 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Logic is not the way of understanding consciousness, life. Meditation is.

 Aristotle, one man for two thousand years has been dictating everything in the world of science: the laws, the logic that he wrote two thousand years ago continue to be applied. Anything against Aristotle is simply unacceptable. No man in the whole history of humanity has dominated so much. A single man – and he created the whole system of logic, and science goes on following his logic.

Nature goes on its own way – it has its own laws, it has no obligation to follow Aristotle.  

I hate double quoting, but I want to stress that here you're doing a big no-no. You are separating humans from nature. Absolutely everything is nature, even computers. It's just different type of nature.  Everything is ultimately made of the same stuff, why should we separate?

Edited May 3, 2017 by Dodoster

[Prabhaker]

5 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

You are separating humans from nature.

I am not separating humans from nature, I am not limiting nature to Aristotelian logic. 

If Aristotle and Buddha had met, it would have been really something just fantastic, because Aristotle says A is always A and can never be B. But Buddha has a fourfold logic: he says A is A, A sometimes is B, A and B sometimes are both together – so much so that it is difficult to decide which is A and which is B; and sometimes A and B both are absent – still, their absence is their absence. He calls it fourfold logic. And if you look at existence you will find Buddha a better logician than Aristotle.

[Prabhaker]

15 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

Meditation serves one purpose, and that is to quiet the ego. To be enlightened is to live in a meditative state.

You have been told about meditation and enlightenment that is logical by new age teachers, that which is not logical and can't communicated in words in not told. 

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

I am not separating humans from nature, I am not limiting nature to Aristotelian logic. 

If Aristotle and Buddha had met, it would have been really something just fantastic, because Aristotle says A is always A and can never be B. But Buddha has a fourfold logic: he says A is A, A sometimes is B, A and B sometimes are both together – so much so that it is difficult to decide which is A and which is B; and sometimes A and B both are absent – still, their absence is their absence. He calls it fourfold logic. And if you look at existence you will find Buddha a better logician than Aristotle.

Buddhas logics are the logics of 0 and infinity then. Things break around there, it doesn't mean it's illogical! It's logical for things to break when talking about 0 and infinity.

[Russell Parr]

3 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

And if you look at existence you will find Buddha a better logician than Aristotle.

Agreed. The enlightened make the best logicians. 

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Dodoster said:

Buddhas logics are the logics of 0 and infinity then

What Buddha communicated to his closet disciples was not not limited to logic, presence of enlightened masters communicate that which is not logical. 

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

I am not separating humans from nature, I am not limiting nature to Aristotelian logic. 

If Aristotle and Buddha had met, it would have been really something just fantastic, because Aristotle says A is always A and can never be B. But Buddha has a fourfold logic: he says A is A, A sometimes is B, A and B sometimes are both together – so much so that it is difficult to decide which is A and which is B; and sometimes A and B both are absent – still, their absence is their absence. He calls it fourfold logic. And if you look at existence you will find Buddha a better logician than Aristotle.

A=Aristotelian logic  B=Buddha Nature

Apply Buddha's logic, get rekt by yourself!  

[Russell Parr]

2 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

You have been told about meditation and enlightenment that is logical by new age teachers, that which is not logical and can't communicated in words in not told. 

(emphasis added)

But we are talking about enlightenment. Enlightenment has to do with the mind, by definition. Logic is a key ingredient to communication and understanding.

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Russell Parr said:

Enlightenment has to do with the mind

You are misinformed.

[Russell Parr]

How so?

Have you ever met a dead man that was enlightened?

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, Russell Parr said:

How so?

Have you ever met a dead man that was enlightened?

That would imply you suggest life is a property of the mind and not the other way around? Ouch

Enlightenment is about transcending mind, not about improving mind or looking enlightened to others.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Dodoster

[Russell Parr]

@DodosterI agree with your last sentence

But life (and enlightenment) is a property, or rather a fabrication, of the mind. It is an illusion created by relativistic observation. Ultimately, there is no life or death. Only the Tao.