Sam Harris destroys Elon Musk

[Recursoinominado]

I don't really like these clickbait titles but damn, this one is worth it.

I've never seen Sam Harris go this hard on someone.

Starting to like the guy lately, he has some really insightful thoughts about predicaments like the Pandemic, vaccines, Trump, and the rise of the alt-right.

Yes, I am biased.

 

[Raze]

Sam has had debates in the past with Dan Carlin and Noam Chomsky 

https://web.archive.org/web/20211009072953/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O2F12IM9aA

https://www.samharris.org/blog/the-limits-of-discourse

[Leo Gura]

Sam has good judgment on all the epistemic pervertry surrounding Trumpism.

One of the few public intellectuals who hasn't fallen down the anti-mainstream rabbit hole.

Musk has become completely unhinged. Full shameless douchebag oligarch mode.

Edited November 26 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

Sam Harris really hit the nail on the head! 

I am glad he called out Musk. We need more public intellectuals like him out there.

Edited November 26 by Hardkill

[Brittany]

I really like the work that Sam Harris and Alex O'Connor have been doing in the Political sphere's lately.

Edited November 26 by Brittany

[PurpleTree]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Sam has good judgment on all the epistemic pervertry surrounding Trumpism.

One of the few public intellectuals who hasn't fallen down the anti-mainstream rabbit hole.

Musk has become completely unhinged. Full shameless douchebag oligarch mode.

Also good judgement on the woke stuff.

[Emerald]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Sam has good judgment on all the epistemic pervertry surrounding Trumpism.

One of the few public intellectuals who hasn't fallen down the anti-mainstream rabbit hole.

Musk has become completely unhinged. Full shameless douchebag oligarch mode.

Oh but Leo... what about all the wonderful Elon Musk interviews you wanted to have me watch a couple months back to support your point that he's more than just a douchebag oligarch?

And when I called him out on this very thing, you said it was a something like it was a leftist caricature of what he actually is and that 'Go watch 10 hours of Elon Musk videos, and you will know better.'

Edited November 26 by Emerald

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Oh but Leo... what about all the wonderful Elon Musk interviews you wanted to have me watch a couple months back to support your point that he's more than just a douchebag oligarch?

And when I called him out on this very thing, you said it was a something like it was a leftist caricature of what he actually is and that 'Go watch 10 hours of Elon Musk videos, and you will know better.'

1) You still don't understand Musk's perspective and worldview.

2) Musk has become a lot worse since then. His decent into Trumpism has been rapid and recent. Full douchebag oligarch mode is a new development. You guys act surprised when I update my views based on major new developments. That's not a mistake.

There is a point at which calling someone a douchbag oligarch is jumping to conclusions, and a point at which it is not. Musk crossed that point a couple months ago.

I did underestimate how low he would ultimately go. It's one thing to just be a jackass on Twitter, it's another thing to blantantly buy an election.

Edited November 26 by Leo Gura

[Joshe]

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Oh but Leo... what about all the wonderful Elon Musk interviews you wanted to have me watch a couple months back to support your point that he's more than just a douchebag oligarch?

And when I called him out on this very thing, you said it was a something like it was a leftist caricature of what he actually is and that 'Go watch 10 hours of Elon Musk videos, and you will know better.'

😂 I remember this. 

To be fair, new information has come to light, but even still, I knew back then the devil that was Musk and I knew he was capable of exactly what he now is, and that it was even likely he would stoop to such a low. I remember arguing that you can use analysis and intuition to see this truth, but Leo and Aurum called me a biased stage green hippy. 😂

Edited November 26 by Joshe

[PurpleTree]

Thank god those tech billionaires seem nerdy and mildly autistic and not charismatic. Imagine a charismatic tech billionaire came along.

[Emerald]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

1) You still don't understand Musk's perspective and worldview.

2) Musk has become a lot worse since then. His decent into Trumpism has been rapid and recent.

I sense that I do understand his perspective and worldview, as well as what's making him tick. It's quite human and relatable, especially for an entrepreneurial type like myself.

He wants to be the hero and save the world using his gifts. And undoubtedly he's developed certain skills to enact this goal. 

He just has a lot of power. So, his neuroses and feelings of disconnection turn into collective positives and negatives on a large scale.

And the negative part of it is that, he craves acceptance and admiration because he sees it as an antidote to feelings of alienation... even though it isn't. And people who are most willing to give that to him is the far right echo chamber. He gets to feel like part of the cool kids club.

He proudly owns the label of being "The George Soros of the right" because he gets to be celebrated and appreciated as an asset.

And I very much disagree with your second point. The only thing that's changed in the past couple months is that he's associated himself more closely with Donald Trump. He's been holding these viewpoints and patterns for quite some time... and not in a private way. 

All of this has been very predictable for the past several years. If you were surprised by his Trump sycophantry, then you weren't fully paying attention to Elon Musk's public behavior before.

[Joshe]

11 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And people who are most willing to give that to him is the far right echo chamber. He gets to feel like part of the cool kids club.

He proudly owns the label of being "The George Soros of the right" because he gets to be celebrated and appreciated as an asset.

I sense this is his primary driver as well, but I think Leo's read that he's largely motivated by power is also accurate. The right gives him both. 

13 minutes ago, Emerald said:

All of this has been very predictable for the past several years. 

Yes, it was clear he was such a character. I was confused as to how it went unnoticed. 

[Bobby_2021]

15 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

've never seen Sam Harris go this hard on someone.

 

He really went off.

The distinction between smart and public intellectual is pertinent here, as in public intellectual refines their worldview to be more integrous over time.

At the same time, I wonder if Sam has put enough work to get his view on Russia sturdy enough. It's quite weak and selfish of him to defend western neo imperialism/colonialism.

He is a victim of contrived western liberalism and hence he is in a bubble of his own. He is a neuroscientist who forgets all ethics when it comes to Israel because Muslims bad which is obvious from his hatred of religion.

It's little things like these that made me lose respect for all public intellectuals. There is a few that I could truly respect.

Edited November 26 by Bobby_2021

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Bobby_2021 said:

He really went off.

The distinction between smart and public intellectual is pertinent here, as in public intellectual refines their worldview to be more integrous over time.

At the same time, I wonder if Sam has put enough work to get his view on Russia sturdy enough. It's quite weak and selfish western neo imperialism/colonialism.

He is a victim of contrived western liberalism and hence he is in a bubble of his own. He is a neuroscientist who forgets all ethics when it comes to Israel because Muslims bad which is obvious from his hatred of religion.

It's little things like these that made me lose respect for all public intellectuals. There is a few that I could truly respect.

Russia is imperialist colonialist too you know. 🦭

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

The only thing that's changed in the past couple months

A lot changed. He went from Twitter shitposting to spending $100M+ and personally campaigning with Trump.

[aurum]

3 hours ago, Joshe said:

Aurum called me a biased stage green hippy. 😂

I stand by it.

Nothing about what has happened over the last couple of months changes much of how I feel. Leftists continue to not have a balanced understanding of Musk, even though they insist that they do.

I do think your perspective is probably more nuanced than I originally gave you credit for though. And Musk has certainly continued to degenerate in a disappointing fashion.

Edited November 26 by aurum

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Leftists continue to not have a balanced understanding of Musk, even though they insist that they do.

I don't claim to have or aim for a balanced understanding of Musk. My goal was to analyze specific details to assess his integrity. I don’t need to know everything about him to answer "How integrous is he?". This question alone was all I cared about. When I arrived at the answer "He's not integrous", I didn't feel a need to balance that out by seeing his good side. 

It seems that because you prefer a full, comprehensive understanding, you don't like the idea of a targeted analysis.

It's like you assume my narrower focus on particulars inherently leads to a flawed conclusion. The way I see it, the depth of inquiry should match the question you're asking. If your goal is to evaluate a specific trait like integrity, a comprehensive understanding of Musk is not required. A targeted approach is not only sufficient, but much more efficient. 

Edited November 26 by Joshe

[aurum]

24 minutes ago, Joshe said:

It seems that because you prefer a full, comprehensive understanding, you don't like the idea of a targeted analysis.

It's like you assume my narrower focus on particulars inherently leads to a flawed understanding.

Not exactly. 

Targeted analysis is absolutely necessary for a full, comprehensive understanding. It's just not sufficient.

And yes, it will inherently lead to a more flawed understanding if that is all you do.

I come to this forum to cut through as much bias, ideology and human "side-taking" as I can handle. That's the filter I run when I evaluate perspectives. That's what I consider necessary to claim that you are doing Tier 2, conscious politics and honest sense-making.

If you're not doing that, then you're doing something else.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A lot changed. He went from Twitter shitposting to spending $100M+ and personally campaigning with Trump.

If you paid attention to the content of the things he's said in that Twitter shitposting... you would not have been so surprised about him campaigning for Trump. 

It's been pretty obvious for several years who and what he supports. Supporting Trump isn't even the slightest bit out of character for him.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

I stand by it.

Nothing about what has happened over the last couple of months changes much of how I feel. Leftists continue to not have a balanced understanding of Musk, even though they insist that they do.

I do think your perspective is probably more nuanced than I originally gave you credit for though. And Musk has certainly continued to degenerate in a disappointing fashion.

Our discussion a couple months back was in regard to whether or not Elon Musk has integrity.

Use basic common sense and discernment, and you will see that he doesn't even care about integrity. He cares about power and about being admired.

That's it.

You don't even need to be a "biased lefty" to notice that. And you don't even need to be paying all that much attention to him. It's obvious.

And Elon Musk hasn't degenerated any in the past couple months. This is the way he's been for years... and he hasn't been hiding it.

And giving Trump all this money is 100% consistent with his previous political behaviors.

Elon clearly wants power.

That's why he purchased Twitter and turned it into a political propaganda machine for the far right.

That's also why he's given the Trump campaign all this money... in hopes of buying his way into being a Shadow president.

That's also why he proudly owns the label of being "the George Soros of the Right".

People who like him and see him as aspirational tend to be partially or wholly in Stage Orange, so they don't want to see the negative about him because he represents the pinnacle of Stage Orange success.

There are too many stars in their eyes to see the corruption. So, they're biased and don't want to see that about him. They want to maintain the image of him as the super genius who's helping the world.

And it's easier to point the finger and call Green lefties biased about Elon, as opposed to recognizing how correct they are (and have been) about how he really is.

You don't need to be in Tier 2 and totally unbiased to be correct about someone's character. Like them or not, Stage Green Lefties have been right the entire time about Elon.

They just may not have Stage Turquoise perspective of seeing all things (positive and negative) as inter-connectedly working together to create something greater than the sum of their parts. So, they may not recognize that Elon is integral to the structure of now.

But they're right that he's a far right oligarch who has no integrity.